Worth Trying on the Xbox 360?

[Feba]

Re: Worth Trying on the Xbox 360?

1- No, what I'm saying is, in order to have everything you might ever POSSIBLY need in macro form would take a HUGE amount of setup work, and a very significant amount of time to be able to use effectively in an emergency, when you need it, compared to the ability to type commands.

2- It's not a matter of getting used to it, it's just a matter of the time you lose. Seriously, take a video or a stopwatch or something and see just how long it takes you to go from using a controller, to putting it down, to typing on the keyboard, to picking the controller back up, to being able to use it again. You're almost certainly losing at least a second or two every time you do this-- that can be the difference between life and death sometimes.

3- I didn't say it's a big deal. I said that it's still ineffective compared to simply using a keyboard. Additionally, between the fact that you're unlikely to type on that at a good angle, and it's small size, it's going to be less than comfortable; although that might not show up if you don't play for long periods of time.

And yes, pretty much-- but considering that anyone who seriously intends to play FFXI is going to be using a keyboard anyway (and can get a USB keyboard for less than they spend on their monthly subscription), and considering that the controller is only detracting from performance in almost all cases, there's no good reason to use the controller instead of the keyboard-- unless you have no intention of doing anything remotely social. If you just want to lay back on the couch and farm or something, the controller is probably a good choice. But for anything else, or if you want to talk to people while you do it, the keyboard is the best option.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Worth Trying on the Xbox 360?

1- No, what I'm saying is, in order to have everything you might ever POSSIBLY need in macro form would take a HUGE amount of setup work, and a very significant amount of time to be able to use effectively in an emergency, when you need it, compared to the ability to type commands.

2- It's not a matter of getting used to it, it's just a matter of the time you lose. Seriously, take a video or a stopwatch or something and see just how long it takes you to go from using a controller, to putting it down, to typing on the keyboard, to picking the controller back up, to being able to use it again. You're almost certainly losing at least a second or two every time you do this-- that can be the difference between life and death sometimes.

3- I didn't say it's a big deal. I said that it's still ineffective compared to simply using a keyboard. Additionally, between the fact that you're unlikely to type on that at a good angle, and it's small size, it's going to be less than comfortable; although that might not show up if you don't play for long periods of time.

And yes, pretty much-- but considering that anyone who seriously intends to play FFXI is going to be using a keyboard anyway (and can get a USB keyboard for less than they spend on their monthly subscription), and considering that the controller is only detracting from performance in almost all cases, there's no good reason to use the controller instead of the keyboard-- unless you have no intention of doing anything remotely social. If you just want to lay back on the couch and farm or something, the controller is probably a good choice. But for anything else, or if you want to talk to people while you do it, the keyboard is the best option.

No I totally disagree. I am quite social and I use a controller. LOL I also am a good player and it doesn't hamper me in any way. I have a few level 75 jobs that use a lot of macros (whm, blm, rdm, etc) and I do a good job with a controller.

I just think that what you are saying is very misleading. While, yes, the controller is a tiny bit slower than using a keyboard, its just not that significant that it alters the game in any way. A decent player can do just as well on a controller as they do with a keyboard. Now if you prefer one over the other, thats fine because its all a matter of what the individual likes.

[Feba]

Re: Worth Trying on the Xbox 360?

I'm not saying that using the controller is antisocial, I'm saying that the controller is not a good choice for anything that IS social.

While you might not feel like it's a handicap, if SE, say, locked the game's input during those precious seconds when you're switching, you'd be extremely annoyed very quickly.

Pretty much, I'm gonna call BS-- there's no way you've been playing for so long without having at least one or two situations where doing something that one or two seconds quicker could've saved your life-- or if you would've died had you waited a second or two longer. We've all had at least one of those moments on some mission, where you walk out with one man standing, nearly dead, but the party won. At the very least, we've all heard those stories.

While it might be rare, the keyboard offers faster reaction time in any case. Again, unless you're just hanging back, not talking, and just need the basics to do something (like farming, a quiet party in a safe place hunting easy monsters), the keyboard is a better choice. The benefit a controller has is comfort, and that's completely lost when you're switching back and forth.

[Ellipses]

Re: Worth Trying on the Xbox 360?

And yes, pretty much-- but considering that anyone who seriously intends to play FFXI is going to be using a keyboard anyway (and can get a USB keyboard for less than they spend on their monthly subscription), and considering that the controller is only detracting from performance in almost all cases, there's no good reason to use the controller instead of the keyboard-- unless you have no intention of doing anything remotely social. If you just want to lay back on the couch and farm or something, the controller is probably a good choice. But for anything else, or if you want to talk to people while you do it, the keyboard is the best option.

Even going with the assumption that the keyboard is always better for performance, it's still only the best option if performance is the main consideration, enough so to override any differences in comfort level. There are shades of gray in there.

Personally, I'm not convinced the keyboard is always being better for performance, in every case, even though it is for me. Humans come in a variety of proportions and chemical compositions. If someone simply can't memorize X macros, the controller is going to be a better option. Or if they have trouble with their hands that keeps them from being fast with Alt and Ctrl. Or if they're not a touch-typist (yet) anyway.

[Temagori]

Re: Worth Trying on the Xbox 360?

I have to say I am with Grandmom on this because I am in the same boat. I am constantly getting praise for how good a job I do as WHM etc and I use a controller with the keyboard in my lap. If they have to wait 2 secs for a reply cuz I'm doing something they get over it.

I have to say it's a matter of preference. I prefer the controller + keyboard combination. Let's me do what I want to, best to my liking. Yes, people have died from a lack of reaction time, but I have seen the same thing happen when someone using a keyboard made a "typo" trying to do their macros. That and/or just plain typing the command in wrong.

Shit happens and it's no different in the game. I don't think that the controller retracts from that by too much a degree to matter. Especially if you get accustomed to it and learn how to use it the best way possible.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Worth Trying on the Xbox 360?

We'll have to agree to disagree. I said that they controller is a tiny bit slower than a keyboard but I don't believe it is so slow that it significantly alters your game enjoyment or game play. In the end, the biggest factor is the player. If you are a good player it will not matter if you use a controller or a keyboard because you take the time to learn how to utilize your choice the best and, most of all, you pay attention. I think that not paying attention (i.e. playing psp, watching tv, reading, talking with someone in the room, etc.) are more likely to cause you in game issues than a 1 second delay.

[Feba]

Re: Worth Trying on the Xbox 360?

A:

enough so to override any differences in comfort level.

that's completely lost when you're switching back and forth.

B:

If someone simply can't memorize X macros, the controller is going to be a better option.

What? You do realize that you can display macro bars on the keyboard too, right? As I've said before as well, the keyboard also makes it easier to have fewer macros. Keyboard has the advantage there too.

C:

Or if they have trouble with their hands that keeps them from being fast with Alt and Ctrl. Or if they're not a touch-typist (yet) anyway.

If you have trouble with using the ALT/CTRL keys, you're going to have trouble holding onto a controller too. You're going to have the same problems with not being a touch-typist if you use the controller; it's not like you have to be able to type 60 wpm to use the keyboard effectively.
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but I have seen the same thing happen when someone using a keyboard made a "typo" trying to do their macros. That and/or just plain typing the command in wrong.

The thing is, that could happen the exact same way with a controller. Using a keyboard alone doesn't set you up for a huge loss in reaction time, though.

In the end, the biggest factor is the player.

yes, and most players are going to find it annoying to constantly pick up and put down a controller to switch between that and a keyboard. Hell, switching between the mouse and the keyboard alone is annoying enough. And again, the point isn't that the controller is unplayable, it's that if you're using it for anything even remotely serious you already have a keyboard, so you're better off just using that.