Do you consider multiboxing cheating?

[Heartily]

Re: Do you consider multiboxing cheating?

I voted "other" because I know of a dual box RMT named _______ on Diablos who has his dual on follow and does nothing but kill bats and gobbue in zitah.
Since he's cheating once as RMT, he's cheating again with a second RMT.
(anyone on Diablos who goes to entrances to B tree know who this is).
I have to admitt he's very good at it so it's fun to mess with him as beast and have 2 claims going at once.
I've thought about trying dual box but I enjoy the game as it is. I have a laptop set up next to desktop but it's for research, maps, and answering questions for shell members. I don't think it's illegal for legitimate players who have the ability to do it well and not cause problems for others.

[Neomage]

Re: Do you consider multiboxing cheating?

Kitalrez-

I wouldn't consider that instance cheating, I would consider it sucking.

[Pteryx]

Re: Do you consider multiboxing cheating?

Dual-boxing is a tool, and one of the tools that's allowed. It can be used for good, evil, or stupid.

Unfortunately, on Midgard lately I've seen and heard it used quite a bit for stupid.

I'm not even talking about people who dual-box PLers for soloing. The real menace lately has been people using their dual-boxed PLers to PL parties -- even in the 70s. With cooperation in parties at an all-time low, people think they can get away with this. Unfortunately, they're typically wrong; they usually end up performing inadequately at their jobs. And then go on about how awesome they are. -- Pteryx

[Kitalrez]

Re: Do you consider multiboxing cheating?

Well, I just voted "Yes". I qualify that by saying that it's not something I think players should be investigated and banned for, but I consider it kind of an annoying cheat. A bit like the old Japanese/NA account latency when claiming issue we used to face. If you're always on the short end of the stick, it starts sucking after awhile and you resent everyone in the other group. But also, it begins to resemble a "GM Dave" blogpost:

Bannable Offenses from March 3, 2008

250!

Wow. Post 250.

To think that I have written 250 rants in this blog.

It really tells you something, doesn't it?

I have WAY too much time on my hands.

I thought long and hard about what I could write for number 250.

This was, of course, incredibly important so I sat down and wouldn't let anything distract me.

Five minutes later...

I'm playing Playstation.

I can't help it if I have a short attention hey something shiny.

What was I saying?

So, I'm playing Playstation. A few days ago, I decided to give FFXII another run through.

No, it had nothing to do with a certain helmet.

Shut up.

Anyway, I'm setting up my gambits for my characters.

For those of you who haven't played FFXII (what's the matter with you?), gambits are basically instructions you can set for your characters so that the other people in your group will follow preset rules that you have given them.

That's when an idea came to me.

Actually, "came to me" is putting it far too lightly.

This idea fell from the heavens and struck me in the brain. It was as if a giant light bulb flickered and then blazed inside my head.

There may have been a chorus of angels.

I'm not sure.

I immediately went to work moving Susan's computer across the room so it was side by side with my own.

This was made all the harder by the fact that Susan was using it at the time.

Do you know how hard it is to take a computer that someone else is using and move it across the room with them complaining the whole time?

Some people are so inconsiderate.

When little miss yappy finally gives up and stalks away muttering something about hiding a body, I log in on my main account and then use Susan's computer to log into my GM account.

I quickly form a party on my main. We've got a good set up. Things are looking good.

This is usually where the story takes a turn for the worse. This is usually where some moron does something stupid and blows it all to hell.

Notice that I said "usually".

You see, I've figured out the problem with massively multiplayer online games.

It's those damned other people.

But what if we could take those people out of the equation?

What if I had the ability to control another player's character?

I do?

Really?

Huh.

RedMage>> Something weird's going on guys.
RedMage>> My macros aren't working.
Paladin>> Mine either.
Paladin>> But my character is still casting spells.
WhiteMage>> WHAT THE HELL?!
Dave>> Yeah...
Dave>> That's weird.
Dave>> I totally don't know why that's happening.
WhiteMage>> Can you still control your character?
Dave>> Of course I can.
BlackMage>> WHY AM I CASTING BLIZZARD?
BlackMage>> I'M NOT PRESSING ANYTHING!
Dave>> Yup.
Dave>> Complete mystery.
Dave>> And that was Blizzard II.
RedMage>> Maybe we should all log out or something.
Dave>> Yeah, you should try that.
Dave>> Dammit. It didn't work.
RedMage>> How did you know it didn't work?
Dave>> Well, I disabled your log out.
Dave>> Made sense to me.
Paladin>> YOU DID WHAT?!
Dave>> Oh, calm down.
Dave>> Look at the exp we're getting.
Paladin>> GIVE ME BACK CONTROL!
Dave>> I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave.
RedMage>> THIS IS INSANE!
Dave>> I know.
Dave>> Your name's not even Dave.
Dave>> That line would have been awesome if your name was Dave.
Dave>> Why isn't your name Dave?
Dave>> Stupid Not-Dave.
BlackMage>> FORGET IT!
BlackMage>> I'M GOING TO UNPLUG MY ROUTER!
Dave>> You could do that.
Dave>> Of course, then I'd have to ban you.
RedMage>> YOU CAN'T DO THAT!
RedMage>> IT'S NOT FAIR!
Dave>> Yeah...
Dave>> Tough call.
Dave>> On the one hand, you are a person.
RedMage>> THAT'S RIGHT!
Dave>> Of course, I hate people.
Dave>> Not really seeing a dilemma here.

And so, we spent the next four hours partying. No one died and we made a hell of a lot of exp.

We all had a great time.

I assume.

For all I know, they left to go make a sandwich or something.

You know, the game would be a lot more fun if people were just a little bit more accommodating.

Or were replaced by a number of preset commands.

Or robots.

Yeah, robots would be awesome.

Now, many of you may be thinking it wasn't right to just take over their accounts and make them do whatever I wanted them to.

Maybe you're right.

But let me ask you something: did Balthier ever get your entire party killed because he had to go answer the phone?

No?

Something to think about.

Basically, you've unfairly reduced your ability to get horribly killed at inopportune moments and for no good reason by the random idiots the rest of us have to deal with. You're denying these morons a perfectly good yelling at, too. And really, the only way most of them will ever clue in to the fact that they're doing things wrong and need to change is if the entire server yells at them.

Ok, I'll stop joking now. The real reason I'm annoyed when people dual box is that there are so many of you who really aren't any good at it. Closest analogy I can think of is driving your car and talking on the phone. There are some of you who are very good at this, and these people can pull this off effortlessly. There are those of us who are horrible at this and know this, (I fit into this category, ever try to dial with a manual transmission?) The problem is that the vast majority of people merely "THINK" they're good at combining these activities. I've driven behind you, you should be in an asylum somewhere. I can't count the number of times I've nearly killed both of us trying to respond when you pull some dumbass maneuver you shouldn't have attempted while on the phone. My horn is a signal, it means hang up the $%##^@ phone and drive.

To relate that to a party, let's say you're playing two mission critical jobs, PLD and WHM for example. Now, I on my little 37 taru BLM will significantly alter my own behavior to compensate for you being distracted. How? Let's say we've just pulled off a skillchain. My one big nuke to burst on this will easily kill the mob once the burst damage is factored in. However, I notice you're on the WHM account healing both the DDs from the chain, so I'm likely as not going to dial my nuke down a level. Maybe I do a 1st tier instead of a 2nd tier nuke. It's a crappier damage burst, and the mob is alive longer to beat us all up. You spend more mp, it takes longer, maybe we lose the chain, and downtime is increased? Why am I doing this? Let's say we're on goblins, I know my tier 2 will easily drop this gobbo with the burst. But, I also know that if I get partially resisted, he'll have maybe a few hits worth of hp left. He'll still respond as if that spell hit for full damage though, and I'm right in the line of fire. All it takes for my pitiful taru hp to vanish is 1-2 good crits and a Goblin Rush, which he'll have more than enough life left to pull off in time. Also, I know that it's going to take you a split second to get back to PLD and save me with that voke or spell. In this case, I'm putting the kid gloves on and sissy-slapping this thing to death. Your ability to play two jobs at once just isn't worth my character's death.

I'm not just pulling this example out of my ass here, this is something I've had to learn in at least a dozen parties I've played in. Is dual boxing bannable? No, and it probably isn't cheating in the purest sense of the word. Do I wish it was, however? GOD YES! Those of you who really suck at this and insist on doing it anyway are just as dangerous to the rest of us as distracted drivers are. Unfortunately, most of the people you play with are either too polite or in too much of a hurry to be somewhere you aren't currently occupying to tell you this.

[Lanih]

Re: Do you consider multiboxing cheating?

Dual-boxing is convenient. I sometimes use my fiancé's character to help me out on some quests, or escort me somewhere if I'm on a low-level job. Access to another account is a handy thing to have if you run into trouble, but that's about it.

PL'ing myself on his character is extremely boring to me, and I'll rather get EXP in a (more or less) traditional PT.

We pay for two accounts, so we use two accounts. It's as simple as that. It's not even close to cheating in my eyes.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Do you consider multiboxing cheating?

I dual box only when absolutely necessary.........and I consider getting to lvl 20 solo a necessary instance! Screw the "you need the experience of solo'ing" or "you are cheating yourself" bs, solo'ing just isn't for some people and I'm one of them. LOL

[Deeke]

Re: Do you consider multiboxing cheating?

'Cheating' is a rather vague term in and of itself..

Is DBing breaking the game's ToS? Certainly not.

Does it create a disadvantage for other players? As FFXI is a predominantly PvE game, typically no. Though I'm sure there are instances where this is arguable.

Does it make things that a non-DBing player might struggle with or find annoying much, much easier? Yeah, I guess it does.


Personally, I see it as

A) a means of offering perma-convenience (ie. not dependant upon another player's assistance, which you could argue is at odds with the ethos of the game)

and

B) a potential way to reduce (intentional) game-challenge.

Exceptions, as ever, apply. DBing can throw up its own challenges and difficulties I'm sure.

It boils down to how players themselves wish to play. Nothing necessarily bad or wrong about it (resists Kung Pow reference), but I don't think DBing is to everyone's tastes.

[Zoltar]

Re: Do you consider multiboxing cheating?

I think it only is considered cheating when you're using a friends account to PL your low account. If you have two accounts and one hadda 75whm that you personally used to PL the other account that's fine by me. I know some ppl who give out their account information to friends so they can PL themselves...I don't care for that.

[Phanex]

Re: Do you consider multiboxing cheating?

I duel box often, in fact I even got 2 other friends irl to start duo boxing.

We don't PL often, but when there are no main healers, WHM, LFP and we are bored, we'll get mine out there to help heal, mostly to r3 us when we only have a smn/rdm/sch for main heal, but only heal, no tanking for the PL. This way death can still happen and the tank learns how to do his job, thf can do his job, drk can do his job, etc. etc.

Then like others, I just use mine to farm, or us three will go get our 6 guys to do missions or BCNM, or other quests. We even merit this way, 3 support, 3 DDs, let the DD accounts just keep attacking, while I main heal, other guy Tanks, other guy is bard puller. Works out great.


But I don't think it'll hurt other ppl on the game, just 3 more dd's having to wait for a rdm or other healer to lfp.

[Jei]

Re: Do you consider multiboxing cheating?

Multi-boxing is a luxury. Once you get used to it, it's hard to break away from it.

It's not cheating no.

[fallenintoshadows]

Re: Do you consider multiboxing cheating?

The only thing I don't like about dual boxing is when people dual box an NM, take up more than one spawn location or some such and try and monopolize the NM purely for themselves. I've seen the same person do this with about 5 accounts for VE.. Kind of pathetic.

[Kittyneko]

Re: Do you consider multiboxing cheating?

I don't consider multiboxing cheating, though it is obvious you have an advantage over other players. But is this an unfair advantage is the question.. I believe not. There's nothing unfair with buying another account and computer/console to run the game on.
Not someone else's account, as this is forbidden; you will gain an advantage by breaking strong rules, I consider that the same as using bots, as anyone can download a bot.

I found my answer through this simple comparison:

It isn't cheating when your neighbour drives an old trash car and you a Porsche.


I personally multi-box quite often, using my friends account to PL myself, or do HNM's with together, etcetera.

[Ameroth]

Re: Do you consider multiboxing cheating?

I multibox quite often. But other than getting my mule (on my laptop) to level 7 thru PLing, I haven't done much PLing of the sort with dual-boxing. Most of the time I have my mule sitting in Lower Jeuno with goodies I want to pawn off in his bazaar for long periods of time. Also, it's really handy to have a mule in Jeuno that you have access to without loggin in and out of characters. Send mule money, mule sends me item in real time.

Other than that, I suppose I have use dual-boxing in a way some people might feel is unfair: When tele-whoring myself I'll sit my mule outside of the MH so I can look at my laptop and see any people who may have shouted for a tele while I was in another zone or running into my MH to get MP. But srsly, at the very least, it's a slight time advantage. Nothing that really helps me dominate teleports anymore than I would normally.

Short answer: No I don't feel multi-boxing is cheating. That's like telling me it's unfair to get double fighters in Galaga because now I have two... or something.

[CroweMidgard]

Re: Do you consider multiboxing cheating?

I dual box alot. It can introduce new aspects to the game. My wife plays, but not as much as I do. When shes not playing I like to hook up a single wireless keyboard to both computers\accounts. Sometimes there are challenging combos that are fun to level...

In FFXI: I Really liked leveling Paladin and summoner at same time, with friends providing DD.

In WOW: Anyone that wants to try out dual boxing I suggest going AOE Protection Paladin and buff\restoration Druid. Sometimes I do instances with friends, but its much easier as solo ability (along with everything else) in WOW.

I haven't really broken out of the Tank/Healer combo yet. I have heard of it taken to extremes also... Someone taking 5 computer/5 WOW accounts and making Tank, Healer, 3xmages then just running instances the entire time... Think if I wanted to do that I just load up Final Fantasy XII.

If all your concerned about is PLing, its really not necessary in either WOW of FFXI any more. Only time I could see "PLing" is maybe for doing the quests to break level caps in FFXI. If you can't level in WOW now, then you have bigger issues than dual boxing rights and wrongs...

[Ellipses]

Re: Do you consider multiboxing cheating?

Is multiboxing cheating?

My answer is No, because cheating is not right.

'Kay, wait.

Multiboxing is not cheating, because cheating is not right.

Therefore, multiboxing is not not right. Or, multiboxing is right. Thus, not multiboxing is not right. And cheating is not right.

So not multiboxing is cheating? ... Crap. I didn't know.