What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

[Feba]

Personally, I'd go with EVE online. CCP generally does good for it's customers, it has worked on porting their game to more platforms and supported people who modify it to run themselves. They have done a graphics update (and that's even less necessary than it would be in FFXI), after it had been out for a few years. They have made a system that makes it easy to check personal info on a character in a way that is also secure, and does not require giving someone account information. Their website's forum and database is the best the game has. They only have one server (not counting the Chinese server and test server), which makes the world epic (of course, it would be significantly harder to do this in FFXI for obvious reasons) and the community (especially RP) much more interesting. The ability for players to make a 'home' outpost in some senses is also something that would fit FFXI nicely, as would the ability to own your own ship and sail it. (I mean, look at all that water on the map)

Naturally, there are tons of things EVE could learn from FFXI (possibly bigger improvements than FFXI could take from EVE.)

So what MMO do you think FFXI would benefit most from learning from? UO? EQ? COH? LOTRO? SWG?

also, before people start, this is a thread about what SE could learn from other MMOs and apply to FFXI. Not why the person four posts above you is an idiot. Try to keep it positive.

[Negklar]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

I would really love to see SE implement a new, customizable user interface. The most flexible I've seen to date is WoW. There are literally thousands of user created UI improvements created for that game. Blizzard limits the capabilities of the UI system, not controls it explicitly. I'm sure there's some multi-platform excuses for not updating the UI's capabilites, but I find it hard to believe they're not able to overcome them.

Following that, closely, is the mouse controls. Please look at basically ANY other MMO on how to do this, thanks!

[Kitalrez]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

Ok, the person four posts above me is an idiot because.... oh wait

Well, it's hard to pick one here. I guess there's a few games I'd wish FFXI would learn from. Probably the first one would be D&D Online: Stormreach. Not the world's greatest game, this was the first one I tried after I quit FFXI for a year. It does, however, have a Ventrillo like interface built right into the engine. As soon as you log into a quest, you join a chatroom for your party, and everyone in that party has their mic's switched on. This made it really easy to react when the party got ambushed or someone realized we were going the wrong direction. You could adjust the settings in the game interface, too, just like with TeamSpeak or Ventrillo. Binding specific buttons to only switch the mic on when you hold them down, etc. The downside, of course, was that everyone could hear you speak. There were a lot of really odd sounding people out there, and having them pipe up with the exact damage of the Fireball spell in d6's during a fight didn't make them seem any cooler. Considering most of us run Vent or TS while we play endgame stuff, it might be nice to have that integrated in if they do an engine update.

Secondly is Saga of Ryzom. Specifically for this: Development — Ryzom - Science-Fantasy MMORPG Emphasising Universe, Freedom, Roleplay and Community

Granted, that's not much, but it told me well in advance... (they haven't updated the game since Nevrax went bankrupt and Gameforge bought the property), what's coming and an idea of what it'll include. We only "sort of" do that here. They announce expansions a few months to a year before they go live, but I don't really get a sense of the big picture if there is one. Where's this game going? What's the next big area to explore? Am I really playing the main storyline yet? In between expansions, we spend months on these boards spinning our gears and trying to guess what SE is doing. It'd be nice to see the plan.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

You're an idiot

Really, I think SE doesn't need a template for improvements, they've just go to keep doing what they're doing now, which takes time. Balance is a trickly thing and SE is one of the few companies that seems to actually pay attention to balance.

Not only that, SE is mindful of the equipment they've released in previous years and seldom obseletes various gear and never endgame gear.

While it does make things frustrating for jobs that want a new shiny in each update and expansion, its a better system than just making updates for all jobs "just because" and giving no thought to balance at all.

[Mhurron]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

Person 4 posts above me is an idiot.

[Feba]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

Balance is a trickly thing and SE is one of the few companies that seems to actually pay attention to balance.

Do you take every opportunity to bitch about people who want balance changes? This has nothing to do with the subject.

At all.

I also said pretty clearly that other MMOs could learn from FFXI, possibly more than FFXI could learn from other MMOs.

Really, I think SE doesn't need a template for improvements, they've just go to keep doing what they're doing now,

Do you listen to yourself speak? Ever?

[Murphie]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

I see what you're doing now.

[Kitalrez]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

Actually, no one on this thread period mentioned balance changes. We've got structural and engine suggestions, and maybe a graphical update.

I kinda wonder if someone didn't set Kitten to "blind and angry" this morning. You have to watch that, there's no telling what'll happen if you leave him unattended on that setting.

[Aksannyi]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

Person 4 posts above me is an idiot.

Who didn't see this coming?

I've never played any other MMOs so I don't really know what could be done differently in FFXI as it compares to other MMOs but I do like the idea of the integrated Vent. I use Vent a lot these days and it really does make things easier.

I'm basically pretty happy with the game as-is though.

[Feba]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

I'm basically pretty happy with the game as-is though.

I don't think anyone thinks there's some huge horrible flaw in FFXI. I just think we all agree that it can be improved on, and that it has a lot of possibility.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

Feba, pointing out a typo as a means of discrediting someone is the most base and immature thing one can do. And, as no surprise to anyone you start flaming when we don't address the subject of your topic.

Way to "keep it positive."

Look, you don't play FFXI, if I've misunderstood recent events and you are playing it again, you still have a feeble grasp of the game itself aside from EXP trends, which are an everyday discussion.

SE has been on a rather proactive trend with updates since October 2006 and each new update and expansion has been more progressive than the last. That doesn't come from looking at what other MMOs do and copying it, but looking at the user's criticisms and balancing new designs with or against it.

People have complained there aren't enough EXP quests, now we have weekly/daily ones you can do to get EXP and merits. People complained about a lack of MP endurance for non-RDM mages and also soloability for melees, it has been addressed very well.

But you don't look at this, you just look at the complaints and what other MMOs do to fix the problem. The answer for other MMOs is to make the game dumb as bricks to start with. FFXI came from EQ/Lineage roots, SE can't go back and dumb the whole thing down, because in doing so, they'd alienate people for doing that, too.

I mean, why do you think EQ players disliked EQ2? Because it was trying to ape things WoW did to be more "trendy" but they fucked things like the faction system and the diverse starter cities to do it, removing a lot of the original MMO's flavor in the process. Barbarian from Halas sounds much cooler than Barbarian from Queynos, I'm sorry. Guess if I want that, I'll just stick to the original with the ancient graphics engine since the one with spiffier graphics and voiceover is too dumb to do it.

This is what happens when you don't understand what was good about the game you had.

The handling of the RMT situation in FFXI is also unlike anything I've seen in other MMOs. Some companies still don't do anything about the Chinese Gold Farmer, others go overkill witch hunt on it and ban legit players. SE finds means in and outside of the game to discourage it, sometimes even obseleting things to do it, though not entirely.

Think about to when Assault came out and RMTs were still exploiting the Abjuration market. While not as awesome as abjurations, the more casual player looked at the Assault sets and said "Hey, why bang my head against a wall in sky when I can just do this instead?"

Prices went down on abjurations, Assault, in a way, was responsible for this. It gave players respectable endgame equipment without having to deal with RMTs fucking it up. Then the adjustments to quests, sky and fishing came and the RMTs attempts to manipulate these elements are now getting laughable.

they'll always find something else, they'll always try, but its continuing the be less and less effective the more alternatives SE puts out there.

At the same time, these alternatives don't really obselete Abjurations in the slightest, they're just alternatives and highly respectable ones at that.

Even in this previous update, progress has been made. There will always be problems and people will ALWAYS complain, but you can't deny the progress that has taken place.

I kinda wonder if someone didn't set Kitten to "blind and angry" this morning. You have to watch that, there's no telling what'll happen if you leave him unattended on that setting.

I generally ignore people who lack anything of any substance to say. This usually includes Feba. Most of us ignore the content of his topics because his feeble understanding of the game is perpetually apparent.

What praytell, was I "angry" about my original post here? I stated my opinion and it was contrary to the OP, is that a problem? OMG, I didn't addess the OP properly, the world will now spin off its axis and we'll lose all gravitational pull. Earth is doomed.

Seriously, get a grip.

[MrMageo]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

As much as i hate to agree with BBQ

I agree with BBQ

FFXI is doing a damn fine job of keeping the game updated and improved. Since ive started playing Ive seen 3 expansions, Countless new areas, mobs, items, Sea, Salvage, Assault, Campaign just to name a few. This is quite alot of improvements to a 6-7 year old game. IMO ffxi is worlds ahead of any other MMO out ther. Take WoW for example, do the quests and such do anything for a story, there is no missions and no real story line at all. Not to mention most things in WoW are completeable by solo enevours which defeats the purpose of MMO.

If anything I think FFXI offers more to the other games to pick from then it needs to take from them. We have what 20 Job classes now that you can change to when ever the hell you feel like it, unending amounts of quests, missions, events. Personally out of all the other MMO's I have played FFXI sets the bar of what it means to be MMO, there is little to nothing you can do in this game outside of a group, from exp-missions-quests-events.

If SE were to take anything from any thing to improve FFXI I would like to see PvP acctually mean something other than braging rights. Weekley or monthly tournaments, Points for killing people you can spend on gears, items, etc. (Like how wow offers fame or something to buy its endgame "relic" gear.)

[Akashimo]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

How about customizing armor with enchantments so that its not a charged item, but then it becomes Rare/ex and the items to do that are made from npcs with rare/ex materials that anyone can get off most mobs without it being like in 2004 "zomg, its VE get it!"

The UI suggestion I'd go for. Console users side, allow it to be customized from POL and stored on the server.

Umm... have server government for user laws or something of the sort like how Eve is doing.

Monthly contests to submit quest story line themes/concepts, winner gets any item free of choice with a 5 month waiting period before next entry, 1 per account, account over 15 months old and logged in more than 5 times a month.

[Feba]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

pointing out a typo as a means of discrediting someone is the most base and immature thing one can do.

What, trickly? I didn't touch on that at all. You don't even read what you bitch about, do you? Or do you mean that everything you write is a typo?

And, as no surprise to anyone you start flaming when we don't address the subject of your topic.

That's because this thread is pretty fucking obviously not to talk about balance. Let me make this easier to see, maybe you'll read it:

This thread has absofuckinglutely nothing to do with balance.

This thread is about what FFXI could learn from other games. It's not about balance. It's not about people asking for balance. Nobody even MENTIONED balance until you started bitching. You're just making shit up to try to derail the thread, and I'm not going to let that slide.

Did I ever say that SE's updates weren't cutting it? No. Did I ever say that SE needs to change their update strategy? No. Did I ever say SE should copy other MMOs? No.

Did my post have anything to do with complaints? No. It said, very fucking clearly, 'what do other MMORPGs do well that FFXI could benefit from learning from?'. Was I saying FFXI should be dumbed down, or did anything I say have to do with dumbing down FFXI? No.

Did I say that other MMOs could learn from FFXI? Yes. Also very fucking clearly. SE has been doing a great job of dealing with RMT recently, better than almost any other company I've seen.

Did I say that SE had never done anything right? No. Did I say that SE should just copy other companies for their updates? No. Did I say SE can't balance FFXI well? No. Did I say that FFXI is not improving? No.

This is not a criticism of FFXI. This is not a criticism of SE. This is not saying there is some huge flaw in FFXI, SE, or that FFXI needs to be fixed. This is, quite obviously, a thread about what other MMOs do well, and where FFXI could learn from them. I could just as easily make a thread about what FFXI does well and other MMOs could learn from it, but that would be a mess as most people would not have played most of the games mentioned. At least here, we can have a common thing to see how learning from it could improve the game.

BBQ, nobody has a problem with your opinion. The problem is that it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the point of the thread or anything anyone else posted. If you're just pissy today, that's fine, go be pissy and come back when you're calm. If you honestly can't understand what people are talking about, go take some reading comprehension courses, I promise you they will be useful.

[Telera]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

Anything to make me love it as much as I loved SWG, or currently love LotRO...which is to say, 'Never gonna fucking happen.'

XI is a totally different monster to SWG or LotRO. From the ground up they're almost completely fundamentally different, save for the fact that they have levels for you to gain. XD

Graphics aren't a big deal to me, so those are fine. Engine is fine. Customizable UI would be nice, I suppose. But for me, I want a game that caters more toward the casual end than XI does. You can play XI casually, but then you end up like I did, 4 years in, still level 60-some odd, wondering why the hell you're wasting the money when you only get a level up once every month or so.

Some people manage to work full time and play this game. I could if my schedule was more regular, but as is, it made it very difficult to find parties, or to get in on mission/promy/avatar/NM runs. And I got frustrated and there's no sense in playing something that starts feeling more like a job than a hobby. But most Japanese based MMOs take on that more job-esque sense. They're big on the grind, grind, grind. And when you log on and think 'I hate every second I'm on here.' that's usually a big flashing sign that it's quit-time.

I don't think there's any way to make XI into something I'd want to play again. And I have zero hope in their next MMO being any more in the direction that I enjoy, either.

What I think they could learn is to ease up on some of the timesinks in the game. I think that was the major issue for me, in the end. I had a friend who was a GM for around a year, and just from that alone, he could tell XI was a game he'd never get into. The timesinks turned him off, he said. And this is a guy who played EQ and WoW for years.

Kill some timesinks, and more soloability that you don't have to have super specific gear and set ups for. But that won't ever happen. Not the type of game XI is.

I've never understood the MMO = forced grouping or it defeats the point argument. Everything you do in an MMO is on some level interaction. Why people who prefer soloing are told to pack up and move out is beyond me. I love the social aspects of MMOs. I love the odd party quest or big raid. But I don't love it being rammed down my throat from level 10 onward as the only decent method of progression. Balance is a good thing. Too much of one or the other cuts out a huge player-base you'd otherwise have subscribing.