What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

[eticket109]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

I've always said that any MMO could learn a thing or two from a game called "Nexus, the kingdom of winds" (Nexus Atlas - NexusTK's #1 Source for Information for info)

Yes its graphics suck but it has the best community of any game i've ever played. There is a real justice system (that isn't run by GMs but players who are ELECTED Judge) Each path (in FFXI's case job) has a leader called a "Path Elder" who has worked with the path for years on end. Each Job is more of a family than just something you play. They have a home and everything. There are clans (like linkshells) run by players who run the games events. But insted of everyone being able to make a linkshell you have to start as an unoffical clan (not chat, clan bank, home, or anything) then after completing tons of trials and staying together for a year you become a real clan (there are only 15 clans in the entire game) There are 3 armies, one for each nation. Run completely by the players. People who work hard are known and noticed and get good jobs in the game. And basically everyone contributes to the community. And the best part is the GMs are not hired by the company. They are picked by the head GM (whoever has been a GM the longest gets this position) and they are picked right out of the community. (of course they are awarded a secret GM char so no GM can be extra nice to their friends) its really just a community based game.

I just think tightly knit communities in MMOs is important.

Can you imagine the popularity contest clusterfuck that would develop if we 'elected' GMs in FFXI?

Most of that sounds cool but it would only work effectively on a small scale.

[Feba]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

MMOs with a good community have always been my biggest draw. It's one of the reasons I picked FFXI as my first MMO, and one of the reasons others just aren't as entertaining.

EVE Online does a VERY good job of handling an extremely large community (Basically, imagine every single FFXI player stuffed into one server). I mean, if EVE online's actual gameplay was anywhere near as fun as it's community, it would be the bestest game everar.

Personally, I'm not sure about electing GMs, but playerbase justice can work. EVE online has a volunteer system, but more than that, it has an easy method of shared long term communication (it's forums). It also has completely open (but also balanced) PVP. Combine that, and an NPC police force, and you have a game that works very well against both overt and covert scammers (not to mention security controls to keep scammers from being able to easily do damage without your being ignorant. Scamming is actually a legitimate activity, as long as it's done within the rules of the game.)

[Tokagawa]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

Can you imagine the popularity contest clusterfuck that would develop if we 'elected' GMs in FFXI?

Most of that sounds cool but it would only work effectively on a small scale.

learn to read
I said Judges were elected not GMs :] and as much as you would think it would be corrupted it wasn't because if you were found to be corrupt then Mug (the guy who owns the game) would remove you from office. Also at any time any position could be challanged. If I felt that a judge was acting corruptly and I had a REAL reason and some sort of proof then their powers would be suspended and they would be put on trial before 2 fellow judges (there are 10 total in the entire game) 2 elders 1 primogen(leader of a clan) and 5 randomly picked members of the community. If they were found to be corrupt they would get removed from office. These challenges hardly ever take place though because it takes years to get a position and people who dedicate that much time to the community is hardly ever dumb enough to abuse their power. Once your found abusing a power you might as well quit because you'll never get any type of position ever again.

It really just depends your dedication and ability to come up with good ideas that help everyone. That = a job. And really if you have the system set up with checks and balances than corruption is very unlikly.

[eticket109]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

learn to read
I said Judges were elected not GMs :]

Where did I say otherwise? We don't have judges in FFXI so I made a comparison on the two systems and presented the comparable scenario on the FFXI side of things. Again, I think the system that's presented by Nexus has a lot of merit. I don't feel that it would be viable in a larger MMO such as FFXI.

[Shadowneko]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

Blizzard To Sue WoW Bot Maker news from 1UP.com

I call that: Why you should not have an open UI...1up calls it: Blizzard sues bot maker!

FFXI is pretty much ok...it has flaws yes but it's fine in my book. The consle like UI is fine for what it is...the darn thing was made for a controler and not a mouse so quit complaing ^^

[Murphie]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

I'm not sure what a bot has to do with a customizable UI.

[Akashimo]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

.the darn thing was made for a controler and not a mouse so quit complaing ^^

QFT. Honestly, I don't even use a mouse when I play FFXI on the PC just because numberpad arrows > mouse to move.
Plus its kind of easy to use the controller for macro heavy events on the ps2. o_O;

[Negklar]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

Not necessarily what I want in FFXI (most would be impossible to implement in an existing game), but a list of my favorite aspects from MMO's I've played so far:

Player Housing - DAoC/SWG/Vanguard - I like the ability to have player/guild housing, prefer it in the gaming world (not in its own zone like DAoC) but limited to certain out of the way areas. I'd like to see guild (linkshell, clan, etc) towns as well (streets, vendors, NPC defenders, etc) and also thought it would be cool to be able to wage war against other guilds' towns.

Dynamic resources - SWG - I liked how resource locations moved over time, eliminating the boring, never changing nature of farming crafting supplies.

Customizable UI - WoW - Hands down the best example of what I (and Klumps) talked about earlier in the thread

Subjob system - FFXI - everybody here knows why this is such a great concept for player/group dynamics

Quests - WoW - best/most quests in the genre, though WAY too much XP is given for them, I'd rather they be mostly for reputation/fame, items, gold/gil, and/or to unlock further quests in the storyline

Crafting - Vanguard - This game has the best crafting system I've experienced so far, very in-depth, specialized, dynamic.

Diplomacy - Vanguard - Speaking of Vanguard, the diplomacy system, while still needing significant development, was a great new concept that I enjoyed. Provided quests, gear, zone-wide buffs, etc

Controls - WoW - controls are effortless, fully customizable in game, and the character motion is fluid. Being able to run, jump, spin 180 degrees, cast an instant spell, spin the remaining 180 degrees, land, and keep moving forward are the types of controls for my character I want.

Mounts - WoW - Flying mounts, 'nuff said

Missions/Rank - FFXI - I like the Rank system, how it provides benefits, unlocks game mechanics, etc... closely related to:

Reputation - WoW - numerous reputations, can go from KOS to exhalted with a faction in the game, opening up quests, merchants, etc... should include language too, though, imo

PvP/RvR - DAoC - hands down the best PvP/RvR in the genre, 100's of players fighting a major battle, capturable towers/castles (claimable by your guild), siege equipment, realm relics, realm controlled PvP dungeon, the status of realm ware is viewable from the web in real time too. In addition, battlegrounds, for a quick, evenly matched, just for fun battle.

Economy - Eve? - never played it, but heard great things about it, but a good economy must be controlled by the players

Bazaar - FFXI - simple concept, but FFXI is the only game that does it

Player quests - ??? - I've heard rumors that WAR will have player quests... need some brass ingots for your crafting? open a quest, and have a junior miner go gather it for you. Want someone dead? Put a bounty on thier head!


I'm sure there's more, I'll add them if I think of any.

[Ellipses]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

...the darn thing was made for a controler and not a mouse so quit complaing ^^

This is a pretty poor argument to make in general. Extend it far enough and there'd never be expansion packs or updates. The game's ancestry shouldn't be a roadblock to improvements to its current state. Especially with regard to elements that are part of both the ancestry and the current state.

There's no reason for the mouse controls to suck as badly as they do. The game has supported mice from the beginning, on the PS2. If they're going to bother having it available as a control/input device, they may as well make it respectable to use.

[Feba]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

Just to touch on the bot comment, this is why SE should take a proactive role in UI modifications.

If SE made FFXI's UI more malleable, or at least took a role on what's ok and what's not ok instead of blanket denying everything, we'd be in much better circumstances.

For example, FFAssist. There were some things about that program that seemed downright cheap at times. On the other hand, it had a great minimap, and timer functions that were very useful. If SE had taken a more positive role, they could've easily allowed people to use minimaps and know when the airship is leaving, and taken a stance against the more harmful things, and be *taken seriously* by doing that, instead of players just ignoring their "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHNOTHIRDPARTYTOOLS" wall that led to Archbell becoming a major ffxi site.

Open UI does not mean "Do whatever the hell you want with it.". It means "Make your own UI.". To go back to the roads analogy, every car on the road still has to meet certain requirements. If you get a jeep, for example, and mount a machinegun on top to shoot at other drivers with, you're not going to stay on the roads very long. In the game, if you're cheating, you get gaoled. Simple as that. It makes more sense for SE to play traffic cop and ensure that everybody stays inside the rules than to have them play communist car dealer where everyone has to get the same crappy auto and deal with it.

We're not asking for SE to open source the client and let players rebuild it (although that would be a good idea too, it would be a ton of work on SE's end). We just don't think that customizable UIs would kill the game, considering they haven't managed to kill any other games yet.

[eticket109]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

If you get a jeep, for example, and mount a machinegun on top to shoot at other drivers with, you're not going to stay on the roads very long.

You know you want to do just that on some days though don't you?

It'd be fun while it lasted.

[Feba]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

My uncle has a jeep, a short temper, and guns. Personally, I just stay the hell out of his way and hope he moves out.

[Jaelachan]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

This topic is getting out of hand...

[Klumps]

Re: What MMO do you think FFXI could learn the most from, and why?

The best reputation system was actually EQ. You could make friends with factions you were "never meant" to be friends with. I had an Iksar (lizardman) monk who worshipped Cazic Thule (the god of Fear) who was on good terms with the Paladin guild of Erollisi Marr (the god of Love). It took a lot of work and I had to destroy a few "evil" reputations in the process (for instance, I was no longer welcome amongst the corrupt guards of Freeport), but I could do it. Obviously not something that would be implemented in FFXI, but it's a good thing for other games to keep in mind. I guess at this point it's plain to see that other games aren't interested in having a fully mutable reputation system, considering that EQ came out in March of 1999 and no game since then has had one. Too bad, imo.

If you like FFXI's UI, truly LIKE it, and I'm not talking about knowing how to use it or get the most out of it, but actually ENJOY using it over any other modern MMO, then you are a masochist. There's no other way to describe it. How many times have your hands hurt after a night of ctrl+ and alt+ for hours on end in a group? Why in god's name can't they tie at least ONE line of macros to just plain 1-0 instead of needing ctrl+ or alt+? Why can't we have hotbars with clicky onscreen macros?

The only "exploits" or "cheats" that can be developed only in conjunction with a customizable UI are those that SE programmers aren't competent enough to lock down. Don't want me to know my party members' TP? DON'T SEND THE INFORMATION TO MY CLIENT, THEN. Don't want me to know my exact distance from a mob? Then clean up your code so that my client asks the server whether or not it can cast a spell, rather than saying "I can see I'm in range, so I'm casting this spell." Don't want everyone to have a widescan-enabled minimap? Only send position information of mobs >50 range away to people with ranger job or subjob, then.

I don't have any desire to cheat. I don't consider TParty or Distance or Drawdistance or Lightluggage or Recast or Expwatch or Timestamp to be cheating, because they all provide functionality that ANY reasonable person whose head isn't stuck up thei...er, stuck in the ground would agree should be included in the base UI, if they gave it a modicum of thought.

So, next up is going to be the inevitable "Don't like it? Then play another game that gives you all those things!" *sigh* That's the greatest copout argument of all time. Telling someone that they should just deal with something that makes no sense because "that's the way it is" really just makes you look like a tool. Don't like British rule? Well, then you shouldn't have immigrated to one of their colonies...sure, champ. Whatever. The "You're in our world now!" argument, as I like to call it, should've died with Verant Interactive back in 1999. Somehow it keeps on making a comeback.