Why FFXI?

[chasingxsuns]

Hi, the title is a pretty obvious giveaway to what this thread will be about but I'll give you some background. I played FFXI on ps2 a LONG time ago, but was never really serious. got a blm/rdm to level 25ish then stopped. I started playing WoW and have been playing that for some time now. WoW is an amazing game and all but..I'm starting to get bored of it. I've basically done everything there is to do in the game and am just waiting for expantions that will probably suck. Anyways, I was thinking about starting to play FFXI again (and actually play play it). I wanted to ask you guys what is great about FFXI end-game and what sucks. How intricate are bosses? How much flexibility to classes have? About how long (days played wise) does it take for someone's first 75? How balanced is the economy? IS THERE PVP YET?!??!!?!?!?!? What size of party is needed to kill end-game bosses? The list could go on and on...I just want to know if the game is worth buying and paying for each month.
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Oh and btw, I'll be playing on a PC this time around so I'm assuming it will be a much better experience heh

[Wise Donkey]

Re: Why FFXI?

What really sets FFXI apart for me is the ability to do all jobs and missions/quests on one character. I guess you could theoretically get to 75 in just s few months, but I would say it takes most people 6-12 months their first time though. The economy is much better, STFU is doing a good job. AFAIK there has always been PVP in Ballista, but if PVP is your thing, FFXI probably isn't your game. Bosses vary too much to really say anything significant about them in general. And you are on a FFXI board, so I think we will be a bit biased on whether it is worth the monthly fee. I think it is.

[Negklar]

Re: Why FFXI?

I just recently picked FFXI back up (2 months now) after a couple years in WoW as well. The thing that I missed and really enjoy about this game over WoW is the complexities and challenges that make accomplishing things in this game much more fun... group dynamics, quests, the economy, storyline, crafting; it's all so much more engaging to me. It is true, also, that the economy has been fixed from when I played previously, no more 12k stacks of crystals. I don't have any FFXI end-game experience, but I'm not pushing hard to get there because I enjoy the quests, crafting, and sub-job leveling so much. I did experience WoW end-game though (pre and post expac) and I hear FFXI end-game takes much less time to do but takes much longer to get there.

[Ziero]

Re: Why FFXI?

Oh and btw, I'll be playing on a PC this time around so I'm assuming it will be a much better experience heh[/QUOTE]

Wait, are you asking us why we play or are you trying to get us to convince you to play?

Anyway:

How intricate are bosses?
Depends on the boss. Some are massive, epic battles that rage on upwards of hours pushing entire armies of players to their max and others are lol-fests that shouldn't even be considered a real boss. However, most of them can be zerg with enough of the right people with the right gear.

How much flexibility to classes have?
Most classes pretty much have their set roles in set situations. However those roles can change depending on the circumstances. But *most* theories and techniques have been tested already so 'cookie cutter' roles are pretty much the norm. But being able to change jobs on a whim should more then make up for that fact.

About how long (days played wise) does it take for someone's first 75?
Depends on you. If you play a lot and know what you're doing and don't mind skipping some stuff, a matter of weeks. If you take your time and just enjoy the game as you go, months to a year. Hardcore grinders can max out in about a month or two from a fresh start.

How balanced is the economy?
Everything is pretty low in price...however this includes things many people would use to make cash. The good items are decently priced and the great items are expensive. However, unlike 2-3 years ago, 1 million gil now is a LOT of money and NPCing items can actually be a good money maker.

IS THERE PVP YET?!??!!?!?!?!?
Short answer, no. Long answer, there has been PVP in this game for a long time it's just that most people don't bother playing it. You have to actively seek out PVP players.

What size of party is needed to kill end-game bosses?
6-64ish? Depends on the event, but most are six member fights.

Also, there's no real advantage to PC over PS2 other then fairly tweakable graphics and some 3rd pt mods ranging from different display plug-ins to full blown bots. But if you plan to bot...I suggest you don't even start playing as you'll be axed fairly quickly.

[Lunaryn]

Re: Why FFXI?

Economy: Possibly starting to recover from rampant deflation, still unstable, cheap items not always available due to extremely low margins, at least in Jeuno/AU, but this has gotten better in the last few months. General rule has shifted from check vendor prices before buying from AH to check AH before buying from vendor. HELM seems to be somewhat viable again, especially Harvesting which took a big hit when the bottom fell out of the clothcrafting market at the beginning of deflation, but it's not the kind of profit generator it once was. Farming has probably been hit the worst in all this, as supply often outstrips demand, at least until the price drops low enough that it's not worth trying to sell on AH. Reports are that careful watching of the market still produces good profit, but for the casual gamer who just wants to put time in and get gil out so they can have gear for their next party, prospects aren't so good. Ultimately, there's still repeatable quests and selling to NPCs, which has increased viability as the value of gil rises.

Time to 75: Varies significantly depending on the length of your sessions, when they occur, how much effort you put into gearing up, and how popular the job you've chosen is. For reference, I've only just gotten 70 and I joined back in late 2005. A friend of mine who joined at the same time and had a lot more time online teamed up with a veteran player and took RDM to the 60s in a few months, and has been 75 for over a year.

PVP is as it has been for some time: Special contests with marginal popularity. We have Ballista and Brenner. In the former, you kill an opposing player to get "Gate Breach" status, which gives you and any nearby teammates a limited time to score goals by throwing rocks into a floating miniature castle. The latter is more strategically-oriented. Both have lost their popularity, at least on Midgardsormr.

Not being 75 I'll refrain from commenting much on endgame, but as far as party sizes this varies considerably depending on what you're looking to take down and how you're looking to do it. Some NMs can be duoed or soloed with the right setup and are normally taken down by parties, some can be done with a highly-specialized 6 member party but are often done with a 12 member alliance, some may require a full alliance of 18. You may want to check out Main Page - FFXIclopedia - a Wikia Gaming wiki for a place to start gathering info.

Job flexibility: This can be considered somewhat arguable. Jobs do what they do with the resources they have. Aside from merits they can't be customized that much, though gear and food can adjust the focus from one ability to another or compensate for a deficiency somewhat. However, subjobs do offer some additional strategic options, especially for solo or endgame situations. For the majority of your time XPing or meriting, however, flexibility is seen more as a liability than an asset, as party leaders like to be able to know more or less exactly what someone brings to the table just by looking at their job/sub and level. Expect to be called on to perform a standardized, community-approved role at least 90% of the time.

[Evion]

Re: Why FFXI?

If you're a "play when you can" player like me, it will be a loooong time before you hit end-game. I've been on since May and my highest level is only 55. Remember, you need to keep your sub ungimped. So, to be true, you have to take a job to 37 and a second job to 75 to be end-game...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Why FFXI?

PVP: If PVP is a major thing for you, FFXI just isn't for you. Biggest PVP thing in this game is still Ballista, which functions more like an actual sporting match than it does PvP. Only catch is to score a goal someone must die. Brenner is another PvP game, but its a lot more like CTF, almost no one plays it because killing doesn't get much points, just stops people from running away with the flag, as it were. Pankration is the latest PvP addtion, but plays out more like Pokemon.

Endgame - you're getting way ahead of yourself here. You have to be 65 minimum for Dynamis and people still prefer you be 75. Access to Tu'Lia and Al'Tileu zones require a lot of commitment and time, not to mention Tu'Lia access requires you rain Nation rank 6. You must be a minimum of 30 to start CoP missions and to progress all the way to Al'Tileu almost requires two 75 jobs in most cases for the sake of flexibility. Assault content starts at 50 and players usually insist on doing them uncapped at 75. Salvage and Nyzul Isle you need to be 75 for and past ToA mission 15.

Additionally, Endgame linkshells tend to expect you to have a full range of subjobs for the main jobs you offer then. Consider this carefully before you choose your job if endgame is your one and only goal, some jobs have an extensive amount of subjobs they can use, others just a handful, but you will be levelling 1-37 a few times before you have all you need. Its not as simple as getting one job to cap in WoW.

To tap the full FFXI endgame experience requires a bit of commitment. Depending on your job choices you may be taking a while to get there. Levelling up no longer takes as long as it used to. The EXP curve changed in mid 2005 and other ways of gaining easier EXP have come up sense, but not all jobs get invited equally, some are expected to solo thier EXP, too, such as BLM, PUP or BST.

[Ameroth]

Re: Why FFXI?

I've basically done everything there is to do in the game and am just waiting for expantions that will probably suck.

As a rule of thumb, consider this statement nearly unattainable in FFXI. There's simple much to much to do or experience before one could say they've "done" everything there is to do.

The gaming experience can vary a lot. If you're simply into getting to endgame, you can look forward to a lot of exp to grind through. If you like side stuff, fishing, crafting, exploring, meeting and socializing with people, offering help to friends, learning to play the economy, and the list can go on and on, you've probably got quite a lot of time to burn in game.

Really no one can tell you to play the game. I'd recommend picking up the game and playing through the trial period. Hold your interest after that? Keep playing.

[Ziero]

Re: Why FFXI?

Endgame - you're getting way ahead of yourself here. You have to be 65 minimum for Dynamis and people still prefer you be 75. Access to Tu'Lia and Al'Tileu zones require a lot of commitment and time, not to mention Tu'Lia access requires you rain Nation rank 6. You must be a minimum of 30 to start CoP missions and to progress all the way to Al'Tileu almost requires two 75 jobs in most cases for the sake of flexibility. Assault content starts at 50 and players usually insist on doing them uncapped at 75. Salvage and Nyzul Isle you need to be 75 for and past ToA mission 15.

I'd just like to comment on this part, though I'm more then likely the exception, not the rule. Sky and most of Zilart can be done with a job 65-70 if not less. I know with a balanced party me and my friends were able to do ZM4 all the way to Sky with numerous less then 70 people in the group with the only death being when I pulled hate on ZM8?(the BC fight in Delkfutts) and got hit with an 800+ light blade while in low yellow HP. And getting to rank 6 in and of itself is *far* from an endgame experiance.

Also, I frequently (twice a week) do Assaults with a semi-static (who ever is on and free) group of LS mates at the 60 cap. Currently I'm SL rank and have beaten roughly half the availible assaults I can access. Only thing holding us back is the fact that we often do ranks for the lowest of the group resulting in many repeat runs (Hate. Rocks.) I'm also up to Puppet in Peril with almost the same group of mixed lvls as we used to get ZMs done.

And CoP, my favorite of all expansions due to the capped mission system, may not be endgame, but it's certainly a challenge availible to almost all level of players.

*Many* 'endgame' events can be done with a less then 75 job...if you have the right friends.

[Neomage]

Re: Why FFXI?

I started playing in 2004 and JUST hit 75 several weeks ago. Granted, I am an exception and hate the level grind, I have seen a lot of players go from 1-75 in under a month. It depends on your speed and time.

As far as endgame, you will NEVER run out of stuff to do. Ever. As of now, nobody has actually killed Absolute Virtue in a fair fight, so even if you do everything else(very, very unlikely, even for the players who get to 75 in under a month), you can still have him kill you over and over.

Aside from that, endgame falls into several general areas:

1) Dynamis: Perhaps the easiest endgame activity to gain access, as you only need level 65 and some gil, it is also one of the most time consuming. Not so much due to difficulty, but due to the horrid droprates, meaning you will be doing the same exact thing over and over and over again. Still, something that can keep you occupied.

2) Assault: This is the second easiest to obtain access to, and is much more fair. You earn set rewards based on how many assaults you do, not a random roll of the dice. You do this, and you will ALWAYS get SOMETHING out of it.

3) Sky: This involves first getting to a certain point in the Zilart missions. First, you have to get rank six in any of the three nations, this opens up a new portal to the Zilart mission line. The national missions themselves continue up to rank 10, but these are somewhat independent. This is possibly the third hardest endgame event to get access to. While, like dynamis, this runs on the random loot system, the droprates are much, much better, and much fairer. Takes place in the zone of Tu'Lia

4) Sea. To get Sea access you much finish most of the Promathia missions. While they can be started at level thirty, you will not normally get access to sea until, at the very earliest 70(Much more likely 75). Unlike other events in FFXI that simply take up a lot of time, the Promathia mission line is HARD. I mean, really, really hard. I know people with over ten jobs at level 75, and still don't have sea access because they can't beat the missions. They keep getting killed and losing over and over again. However, it is not impossible, as many players, myself included, have beaten the mission line.

Unfortunately Sea itself, is like Sky and Dynamis combined. Lots of prepetory work and bad droprates(though not quite as bad as Dynamis). The rewards themselves are not excellent, but are good and definately unique, you will not get anything like them anywhere else. This is also were you will find the Absolute Virtue that I mentioned above.

There is a lot of other stuff like Salvage, Enjarhar, and N. Isle that I have personally had no or little experience on, so I can not comment. But needless to say, there is more then enough stuff to keep you occupied.

[chasingxsuns]

Re: Why FFXI?

wow well first thanks for all the responses and non-flames

im assuming there is no like.../played command or anything to tell you how many days you played on your character (as in days sat in frontof your cpu,ps2,etc)?

and by intricate bosses i mean the fights themselves. do guilds (i guess it would be linkshells on ffxi) fly through end game content or are there many many nights of wiping on the same boss try after try? ive tried to look at youtube videos of fights, but i mean.. i cant really decipher what is going on.

"They keep getting killed and losing over and over again. However, it is not impossible, as many players, myself included, have beaten the mission line."

this is what i want. wow is just like this but eh..like i said, ive gone through this on everything and am bored.

do linkshells use ventrilo while progressing through content?

[Maju]

Re: Why FFXI?

I guess I'll throw in my two cents. I'm an on-off kind of player who's already quit the game twice, but I might be coming back in the near future, depending on a number of IRL things.

Anyway, I'm also an ex-WoW player who has done almost everything there is. I've been in server leading end game guilds and I qualified for the arena world championship.

First of all, as you probably noticed back when you first played, FFXI is a lot less casual friendly, though SE has been pushing the game away from that state. Things require effort and time and many jobs can't solo an old granny.

FFXI's main strengths in comparison to WoW:

1) Good looking characters and special effects. No Lego men in FFXI, though this too can't be news to you.

2) Party mechanics. Skill chains and mana bursts are something WoW has no equivalent for, which is why being a damage dealer in a raid/party in WoW is often like soloing, only with other players in the area. Sadly, these mechanics have fallen out of favour for reasons that I've ranted about before, but are probably too complicated for this thread.

3) Missions! Did you ever give a rats ass why you were doing quest X in WoW? Or why you went down into a dungeon (besides the loot)? Or why boss Y had to be put down? I sure didn't, and neither did any of my friends. This is because WoW utterly fails at making a connection between the player and the game world. FFXI, on the other hand, is supreme at it, and I believe it is largely thanks to the story, which the missions carry.

Being only L25, possibly even before the Rise of the Zilart, you surely didn't experience much mission content, which is a pity as I believe missions and the story lines they contain are the best things the game has to offer.

FFXI's main weaknesses in comparison to WoW:

1) Unrefined game controls and UI. Thankfully, PC users can significantly improve the UI with third party additions. This will probably be the biggest hurdle to get over when coming from WoW, but you eventually get used to it.

2) PVP content is non-existent, though the game systems can't properly support it anyway. Absolutely do not join FFXI if PVP is your main interest.

3) The Square-Enix Inconvenience Department. FFXI has a plethora of frustrating little "features" that can be best described with the word "inconvenient". This includes splitting storage room into not two, not three but four separate systems. Why? Well, SE keeps spouting BS about technical limitations in the PS2 version but those statements never seem to hold water as a future patch always seems to stretch those limitations further.

4) Slow travel time. Some of it has to do with the point above, but in general travel is just a whole lot slower than in WoW. This, however, can also be a good thing as it really does help immersion. I'm not really sure I want to call it a weakness at all.

5) Class balance is out of whack. In fact, some jobs have been in the weak or useless categories for so long you kind of wonder if anyone at SE actually plays the game. The thief, my favourite job, has always been an underdog, trying to prove its worth to the hip damage dealers, who think proper positioning is not worth their time even if thieves can't properly do their job without it. Puppetmasters on the other hand have been useless ever since they were introduced with ToAU and so on.

WoW isn't perfectly balanced either and some jobs are always in marginal roles for both raiding and serious arena PVP, and warlocks still wipe the floor with everyone and everything in high level dueling and so on, but in my opinion these problems are, if not worse, more long lasting in FFXI.

As a rule of thumb, consider this statement nearly unattainable in FFXI. There's simple much to much to do or experience before one could say they've "done" everything there is to do.

QFT

The amount of stuff there is to do in FFXI is staggering. WoW is a casual cake walk compared to it and you will not be "done" with it. Ever. Seriously.
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im assuming there is no like.../played command or anything to tell you how many days you played on your character (as in days sat in frontof your cpu,ps2,etc)?

There is, though I can't remember what mine showed...

and by intricate bosses i mean the fights themselves. do guilds (i guess it would be linkshells on ffxi) fly through end game content or are there many many nights of wiping on the same boss try after try? ive tried to look at youtube videos of fights, but i mean.. i cant really decipher what is going on.

Many bosses are intricate just like in WoW while others are much less so. Just like in WoW, many bosses become trivial once your guild masters the fight.

Some content is seemingly much harder than what you find in WoW. As mentioned above, nobody has ever beaten Absolute Virtue even though it's a fairly old boss. Of the newer ones I guess you could mention Odin, which probably would have been beaten more if more people would have even reached him. They say his dungeon (Einherjar) is painfully difficult and restrictive when it comes to group makeup, but I quit long before it was introduced, so I have no actual experience of it.

"They keep getting killed and losing over and over again. However, it is not impossible, as many players, myself included, have beaten the mission line."

this is what i want. wow is just like this but eh..like i said, ive gone through this on everything and am bored.

Though the difference between "hard stuff" in WoW and FFXI is that in WoW it's always raid content. The single party stuff caps out at heroic mode instances which really aren't very hard. You'll find much greater challenges in FFXI missions.

do linkshells use ventrilo while progressing through content?

Of course.

[Caspian]

Re: Why FFXI?

wow well first thanks for all the responses and non-flames

im assuming there is no like.../played command or anything to tell you how many days you played on your character (as in days sat in frontof your cpu,ps2,etc)?

Yes, /playtime tells you how many days you've played, but there is a LOT of variance from person to person in how long it takes to hit 75 on your first job. Also keep in mind, you need to have adequate gear throughout your leveling in ffxi. Unless you play BST, you will be partying all the time and skating by on cheap armor and weapons won't cut it with the normal party. (In WoW I don't think i bought a damn thing from 55 until 70). Making money is also something you will have to do outside of parties and this can be time consuming as well.
If it were just the necessary time it took to go from level 1 to cap, ffxi would be MUCH faster than WoW, but what makes WoW easier you can basically do everything at once (lvl, make money, and craft).

and by intricate bosses i mean the fights themselves. do guilds (i guess it would be linkshells on ffxi) fly through end game content or are there many many nights of wiping on the same boss try after try? ive tried to look at youtube videos of fights, but i mean.. i cant really decipher what is going on.

"They keep getting killed and losing over and over again. However, it is not impossible, as many players, myself included, have beaten the mission line."

Yes and know. Most HNMLS's know how to kill just about every endgame mob there is (with the exception of Absolute Virtue, but I still think that's SE's way of fking with us). PUG groups for some missions, particularly CoP, can be absolute hell, though. Everything has been done so much and the game has a slower battle pace so there are proven and in many cases fool-proof ways of killing most mobs.

do linkshells use ventrilo while progressing through content?

yes, most endgame shells do

[Neomage]

Re: Why FFXI?

wow well first thanks for all the responses and non-flames

im assuming there is no like.../played command or anything to tell you how many days you played on your character (as in days sat in frontof your cpu,ps2,etc)?

and by intricate bosses i mean the fights themselves. do guilds (i guess it would be linkshells on ffxi) fly through end game content or are there many many nights of wiping on the same boss try after try? ive tried to look at youtube videos of fights, but i mean.. i cant really decipher what is going on.

"They keep getting killed and losing over and over again. However, it is not impossible, as many players, myself included, have beaten the mission line."

this is what i want. wow is just like this but eh..like i said, ive gone through this on everything and am bored.

do linkshells use ventrilo while progressing through content?

In this day and age, there is a effective stragity for killing every boss mob(except AV). Mini-bosses such as Suzaku and Genbu(in Sky) are easy to kill IF you have the right strategy and you and your linkshell can preform the needed tasks. However, preform poorly and they will wipe the floor with you just like any other monster. So they are far from pushovers. On the other hand, if you know what you are doing you can easily win, so it's not impossibly hard.

As for the Chains of Promathia missions, they are similar to where you need a strat(on most of them) to win, you are also on a time limit. Some are so hard it's really just luck. I've seen some people go 0/50+ fights and give, up, others go 1/1 or 1/2. Most people are somewhere in the middle. One thing for sure is, it doesn't matter how powerful your character is or how great your gear,nor how long you spend fighting, you NEED strategy and skill to win these fights. Otherwise, you WILL go 0/50+

[Ketski]

Re: Why FFXI?

Well, I can't say I have much experience with the game, but I guess I'll give my opinion about it anyway. I played this game 4 years ago when it first came out for 3 months, but I only got up to level 25 in the classes RDM and WHM. I had to quit because of money issues, but joined back recently and now have a 25 BLM and WHM.

Although I've been playing a lot, my levels are still relatively low. The reason for this is because I don't play to just gain levels by fighting mobs of monsters after another. ( I could play WoW or any other MMORPG if I wanted to do that ) I play to just enjoy the world of Vana'diel and the game in general. I have a lot of fun just logging in to the game and doing simple sidequests that barely give you anything.

I've played WoW for 2 months and reached level 66, and got tired of it. It was just mob after mob of fighting for me. I participated in 1 raid and it was pretty fun but WoW definitely lacks storyline. We just constantly fight random mobs for stupid reasons like a girl losing a ring that was stolen from x type of monster, and so you have to kill that type of monster until you find it. It was more addicting to bash a monster's skull after another than fun.

Oh, and yeah, FFXI really isn't a PvP game. It involves a lot of socializing since you usually party to fight monsters starting at level 11+ -ish?

Well that's my two cents ._.