If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

[Feba]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

Is it possible the blades are hollow?

[Armando]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

Raydeus: These are two-handed swords. Reasonably slender. There's no way FFXI two-handed swords have enough weight in their cross-guards, grips, and pommels to balance out their ridiculous blade volumes and have a center of mass anywhere near the cross-guard. I mean, hell, they're wider than my character's head and look thick as hell to boot.

A 40kg GS isn't as farfetched if weight is properly distributed (and you have the required muscles), just dont expect to swing it with one hand Cloud style.

It's very far fetched. See the section to the far right of the essay I linked, in the red column. A 40kg Great Sword would no longer be a sword, since it would be either wide enough to use as a shield or thick enough that it's a blunt weapon.

Is it possible the blades are hollow?

Let's ask S-E at the next fanfest. Better than asking for grilled cheese!

[Raydeus]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

That essay is only considering that specific shape of Greatsword though. With that distribution it would be pretty much impossible having a sword of that kinda of weight/dimensions ratio, that is true.

It would all depend on the shape of the sword and the materials it was made of. It is posible to do and it wouldn't be as difficult to handle considering my experiences with heavy 2 handed weapons.

Now, there's one thing that has to be made clear here. There's a huge difference between possible and practical.

The GS in that essay were designed to give the user as much range as possible while keeping a reasonable speed. If you observe XI's 2 handed weapons characters swing them fairly slow (due to the weight) and the way they use them leave them completely open for very long periods of time.

In a real fight against targets moving at real world speeds using such a weapon would be equal to suicide because you'd get pierced before you could even do the first swing. The human body is very fragile so you don't need that amount of impact to kill someone even with armor, so in the real world everything is about speed/accuracy/range first and piercing/blunt impact capacity second, so to speak.

[Feba]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

so in the real world, thieves actually don't suck

interesting.

[Malacite]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

No ray, it just plain would not work. They would be far too heavy, and like Armando said, the center of balance would fuck up any kind of attacks you could make. Someone with a lighter, real 2 hander would easily dodge/parry the attack, get inside and kill you as you'd likely be too caught up in your last swing due to the crazy amount of kinetic energy you'll have built up.

[Raydeus]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

interesting.

I guess you can look at it that way.

No ray, it just plain would not work. They would be far too heavy, and like Armando said, the center of balance would fuck up any kind of attacks you could make. Someone with a lighter, real 2 hander would easily dodge/parry the attack, get inside and kill you as you'd likely be too caught up in your last swing due to the crazy amount of kinetic energy you'll have built up.

That's what I said.

But my point is an XI kind of 2 handed weapon is possible to make and would be possible to handle, it just wouldn't work well in real combat.

[Heoki]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

I would like to see them add a special part of the game that you could only complete threw turn based fighting. I think it would be an interesting turn on how the game is played. Make the game play somewhat like VII for certain missions, potions and etc would be cheaper for that mode so it felt more traditional. But, as I said only for a new special mode, not change the entire game.

[Malacite]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

I would like to see them add a special part of the game that you could only complete threw turn based fighting. I think it would be an interesting turn on how the game is played. Make the game play somewhat like VII for certain missions, potions and etc would be cheaper for that mode so it felt more traditional. But, as I said only for a new special mode, not change the entire game.

How about no.

[Ziero]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

I would like to see them add a special part of the game that you could only complete threw turn based fighting. I think it would be an interesting turn on how the game is played. Make the game play somewhat like VII for certain missions, potions and etc would be cheaper for that mode so it felt more traditional. But, as I said only for a new special mode, not change the entire game.

Actually I think that would be kinda funny for like a special mission or something, but it would be far from a full on game change. A mini-game or assault type fight, however, then sure, it'd be cool.

As for the discussion on 'realism' in this video game....nothing in this game is based on 100% realism. That line of discussion always ends up in a pointless 'well in the real world you could do this!' stuff when in the end, this game is *far* from being anything like the real world. So discussing how 'unreal' this game's Gswords are or how 'unreal' it is to change all of one's armor in the blink of an eye is ridiculous.

...though on that point, a scythe is just as much a weapon as any other bladed object on a pole.

Though yes, the lag/freezing cause by having spells cast on you sucks and needs to be removed.

[Malacite]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

No, it's not -.-

Because it's a flimsy, curved blade on a long stick it is easily deflected, and doesn't have nearly the impact of an Axe and especially not a spear or lance.

The 'weapon' would be slow, unwieldy and easily deflected. Lances should have the highest damage of the 2 handers really, followed by Great Swords (And well, Gun owns all without question)

[Armando]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

I don't know about you, but scythe blades don't seem flimsy to me. Judging on size and shape the blade has at least as much mass to it as a one-handed sword, and being on a long stick gives it extra kinetic energy. And considering it juts out at a 90 degree angle, attempting to deflect it doesn't seem too smart unless you also have a long-range weapon to do so with.

Slow? Probably. Not not more than a Great Axe, though, which you seem to have no problem accepting. Unwieldy? Sure. But I'm sure you could chop off something with it, especially if your target isn't really looking at you.

Also, I don't see why lances would have the highest DMG. They're not jousting lances or anything of the sort. A Great Axe hit should do far more damage. 'course that's all pretty irrelevant since the object of the designers is game balance, and establishing some weapon types as inferior is counterintuitive.

[Malacite]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

It's because of how you use the weapon.

The entire force of the blow is focused at the tip of the Lance/Spear, making for a deadly impact. Aside from the reach, it's main reason why it's been the weapon of choice for every (good) army in history (aside from swords of course)

And axes are equally as stupid a weapon as a scythe IMO >_>

[Karinya]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

It's because of how you use the weapon.
The entire force of the blow is focused at the tip of the Lance/Spear, making for a deadly impact.

Yes, if you're standing in your stirrups as your trained heavy cavalry mount charges toward the enemy lines. Or if you and 10,000 friends are pointing your pikes at *oncoming* heavy cavalry in the same way (and without wavering).

Otherwise, not so much. The narrow hit area makes it pretty easy to avoid or deflect - most lances (leaving aside halberds, naginata, guan dao, etc.) are *only* thrusting weapons, which means they can only go one place.

Aside from the reach, it's main reason why it's been the weapon of choice for every (good) army in history (aside from swords of course)

They are not so much the weapon of choice as the weapon of convenience. Spears require only a little bit of metal and a bunch of much cheaper wood. That makes them suitable for arming vast numbers of peasants who can't really fight worth shit but do tire out the enemy before your own *real* troops engage them.

And axes are equally as stupid a weapon as a scythe IMO >_>

This post is already kind of long, so I'll let Harald Hardrada answer that one. Good luck avoiding his "stupid" weapon.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

Or if you and 299 friends are pointing your pikes at *oncoming* heavy cavalry in the same way (and without wavering).

Fixed for madness.

[Feba]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

Fixed for SPAAAAAAAAARRRRTAAAAA.

This.


/is