If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

[Feba]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

I honestly don't see how that would prevent grinding.

Who the hell said anything about preventing grinding? It would add more grinding, for sure. It would just keep you from repeating the same areas over and over again (unless you started a new character)

Gear has a dramatic impact on a job's effectiveness, especially when it comes to highly specific stat and ability boosting gear.

The point is exactly that-- getting people to equip for any situation that would come up, and not switching around at the drop of a hat.

For example, in real life, if it's rainy out, you might be lucky enough to carry around a raincoat, but it's going to take you time to put that on. You don't instantly switch in and out of it. Now consider in real life putting on and taking off a suit of freaking armor, all your jewlery, and switching it out for another suit, then putting the original outfit on, just so you could do ONE thing. It would force people to consider their equipment instead of just doing gobbiebags. Plus, it would make people much more likely to have their own 'look', based on their armor; and with armor not being generic with specialized armor only swapped in for a few seconds at a time, it could make some people very recognizable.

Congratulations, you made a bot.

Bots require much, much more than that. Look at FFXII, it has a very complex gambit system, but there are very very few situations where you can successfully 'bot'.

Umm ever here of FF12?

Did you read the post?

Please people, this is to see some interesting ideas, not shoot down other people's ideas. If you want to IMPROVE on someone else's idea, go ahead. if you just want to point out what's wrong with it, go away.

[Anaki]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

Who the hell said anything about preventing grinding? It would add more grinding, for sure. It would just keep you from repeating the same areas over and over again (unless you started a new character)

Would basically eliminate having to repeat the leveling grind

erm i think you said stuff about elimate and leveling grind o.O

[Yellow Mage]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

Make it so whenever you change equipment, all job abilities and spells are locked out for 30 seconds.

Make it so melees can attack moving targets.

(Mouser, who hates gear swaps with the heat of a million suns)

so you hate good benefits?? The Rdm population is going to flame you...gear swapping for them is a daily routine...and in most cases to benefit the party that would include you. Gear swapping penalties no thanks...

Actually (and don't yell at me), I totally see where s/he's coming from. I'm not so fond of gear-swapping, myself, even though I'm a Red Mage. (GIMP! GIMP! Yeah, I know.)

Honestly, I would prefer to build myself a balanced set and be done with it, without having to rely on min/maxing every single spell to prevent everybody from even laughing at me.

But, yeah, pipe dream, I know . . . maybe one of these days, though . . . I'm not even close to 50 yet, but I'm taking my sweet time getting there for that sole reason.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

I'd love to see a way to combine Weapon Skills/Magic into a single, completely new attack (as opposed to chaining them sequentially). Think Dual/Triple Tech from Chrono Trigger.

[Anaki]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

I'd love to see a way to combine Weapon Skills/Magic into a single, completely new attack (as opposed to chaining them sequentially). Think Dual/Triple Tech from Chrono Trigger.

or steiner + VIVI OF POWA

[Ziero]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

Who the hell said anything about preventing grinding? It would add more grinding, for sure. It would just keep you from repeating the same areas over and over again (unless you started a new character)

Personally, I'd go with independent Job/Character levels. Would basically eliminate having to repeat the leveling grind, and the EXP needed for 75 could be set much higher, giving people more of an opportunity to explore different areas, and swapping jobs in the fly could be interesting and useful (if accompanied by a weakness effect so it wasn't game breaking, of course)

You would STILL exp in the same places. People who don't explore now won't explore if it was changed. And btw, re-leveling multiple jobs at lower levels has brought me more new places then leveling at the same level. People would *still* find the best camps for your character/job level and that is where you would spend your time. Even moreso as you could then stay there 1-75 on the same job.

The point is exactly that-- getting people to equip for any situation that would come up, and not switching around at the drop of a hat.

You go out as a DD, your tank D/Cs. With gear swaps you could take over without missing a beat, with the gear-stun, you'd lose valuable time in which that tasty mage could get dropped. Situations occur at the drop of a hat, that's why you carry gear for them.

For example, in real life...

...I suggest not arguing that point any further

Bots require much, much more than that. Look at FFXII, it has a very complex gambit system, but there are very very few situations where you can successfully 'bot'.

If you could make a macro that could activate other macros, what's to stop you from making a macro to activate a macro that starts another macro that leads to another macro etc etc etc.

Enabling near endless repeatitive actions at the push of a single button IS a bot.

Please people, this is to see some interesting ideas, not shoot down other people's ideas. If you want to IMPROVE on someone else's idea, go ahead. if you just want to point out what's wrong with it, go away.

It seems like a discussion thread to me. If people see a flaw in your idea, they should feel free to post it constructively. If your plan is to make things better, and you suggest an idea that actually does the opposite, shouldn't people be allowed to say 'hey, that's not right'. If you think your idea is that great, you should be able to defend, expand and explain the details and concepts. If it is that good, then people will see it for that, otherwise it will be picked apart. I'm not insulting you by disagreeing with your opinion, but I am trying to point out the possible flaws in your 'better' idea. In response you should try and explain *why* it's better and in the end we have a civil discussion where the end result might actually end up being a better idea then any one person had to begin with.

Actually (and don't yell at me), I totally see where s/he's coming from. I'm not so fond of gear-swapping, myself, even though I'm a Red Mage. (GIMP! GIMP! Yeah, I know.)
Honestly, I would prefer to build myself a balanced set and be done with it, without having to rely on min/maxing every single spell to prevent everybody from even laughing at me.

Technically, you can do that now. Many many rdm don't use actual gear swaps for spells or abilities and many stick to 'balanced' builds. However, when you aim for balanced, you automatically give up your chances at being the 'best'. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing (hell I picked Hume after all). Though I highly suggest using gear swapping, I have *never* even remotely called someone who didn't make use of this skill a Gimp. But in the end, that's exactly what gear swapping is, a Skill. It's a technique, an ability, the visual representation of someone who is doing what they can to excel at their role in game.

Though not using it won't make you gimp, making use of this combat tactic that has been invented will help you excel and stand out as a better player. It shows that you don't want to just settle at 'average', or 'good enough'. It shows that you will do whatever you can to do your best in the given situation by doing something that is actually a bit annoying, but gives a noticable enhancement to your effectiveness. And while I may personally hate to Gear swap, I'll still do it where I can, when I can because I want to do the best I can at this game. It's just like spending money on food, or leveling a sub you hate, or farming for weeks to get that uber gear. It's the extra effort you put in to playing this game.

But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[Exertim]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

More abilities! We want more abilities! Well, as melee DD anyways. It gets boring FAST when you're doing nothing but auto-attacking close to 75% of the time with a job ability such as Berserk or High Jump thrown into the mix once every 2 minutes.

Make it so we can hit moving targets. While SE is at it, make it so that Weapon Skills also automatically cancel themselves if said target is out of range. A talent pool system similar WoW's would be interesting and make the classes more "unique", but I doubt it will ever happen =p

[Pteryx]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

I agree that having job and subjob interact more, yielding new traits or even abilities, would rock. It'd be a helpful tool in making subs balance more.

It would also be nice if subbed skills didn't suck so much; heck, it'd be nice if C skills didn't suck so much in full-party situations after 25. I could also see making it so that if your main and sub share a skill and your subjob's skill cap type is higher than your main's skill cap type, then your cap becomes the average of your main's cap and what your sub's cap would be at your main's level, rounded down. For example, a RDM75/PLD37 would have a Sword skill cap of 263, and a PUP75/MNK37 would have a H2H skill cap of 250. (And yes, for the record I love what they did with SCH's Light Arts and Dark Arts.)

As far as deeper underlying changes to the system, I wish it were possible to begin merit-style customization as early as 50, and that the merit system were balanced with this in mind. I can see why a black mage should have to wait until 75 to learn AMII, but why should they have to wait that long to be particularly good at fire magic? (No, HQ staves aren't enough. ) I only say to wait as long as 50 because most people should have a solid understanding of how their job works and interacts with a group by then. -- Pteryx

[little ninja]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

I always had a few issues with the battle system. One was back when I played a DD job. I used to have a clear advantage gear wise over my counterpart with the same job. Yet they were always close to me in the damage output.

Another problem is the strength of mobs vs the player. If I am 75 with a zillion hours invested into getting gear, skills in eva, parry as well as merits. Should I really have to struggle against EP and D/C mobs?

Id love to see an offline version of FFXI. Build a party of your own, quest items for them, such as AF. Might have been interesting. Also shortening job ability timers is nice. Though most of them seem short already. There is a couple that are to long.

[Vyuru]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

Let's see... In addition to some of the fine points already made:

Magic Burst elemental WS

I *would* like a combat system that was a mix of Zelda: Twilight Princess-Draken TAG, something as in depth as say, Soul Calibur would be interesting, but I think that would be taking it a little far, although there WOULD be significant differences between weapon types then, or so I would assume. However, all that being said, I think the combat system would have to be really reworked to prevent exploitations, balance issues, and all that fun stuff.

But if they did do that, then I would LOVE it if some of the boss fights where like the ones in Shadow of the Colosus, those were alot of fun and I could see it for some of the really big monsters out there. Using terrain to fight and the ability to set traps would be fun as well.

Some form of Junctioning could be interesting. One thing that I would like very much is to choose some form of allignment, be it elemental, avatar, something else, that makes a difference in what you can do. So say Water allignment gives your healing spells a boost, including a boost to the strength of Regen! and in general makes water magic more powerfull for you while weakening your fire magic.

Ability to merit armor to a certain extent, as well as remove the armor restrictions and have it more based on mage/DD armor, I'd like some more freedom in how my character looks.

Assuming above battle system changes DID occur, remove job limitations on weapons. Either:

A) You can only gain skill on the weapon as the job that weapon was designed for (Ex, you can only skillup Katana as Ninja) but once you have that skill you can use that weapon with the skill level scaled to your main job's appropriate level. So say I had a lvl 75 ninja and drg, my drg would have a katana skill of my lvl 75 ninja and be able to equip katanas, and the reverse would hold true.

B) Forgot what B was

Wait, I remember now, but I think it would be far too different for the game.

There's some other stuff that I'd like, but I think that it'd really make it too different of a game, and besides I'd rather keep it for MY game even if said game will never see the light of day

[Malacite]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

Just one? There's a lot of things I'd like to change.

Starting with the skill system. Junk it. No more lol /BLM for any job that wants to nuke on the side.


Next I'd like to change weapons and armor. Full Plate should defend like full-fucking-plate: Impenetrable. Why should some leather wearing THF who happens to have the same def as me (wearing metal armor) take the same or similar damage?

As for weapons, I'd speed up 2 handed weapons and ditch Scythe entirely as it's a farming tool and not an actual weapon tyvm SE.

Oh yeah, and all elemental magics would do the same base damage with positive and negative multipliers affecting them based on mob weaknesses and resistances. No more of this Thunder > Stone shit. Let's get back to classic FF elements.


Hmm... eliminating some of the stats would be nice. For example. instead of DMG STR and Attack... why not just STR? Keep it simple? The system we have in place now seems horribly complex compared to previous entries (to me at least)


~ Make Races matter more. I'm sorry, but there's just no way in hell that a Tarutaru's weapons or armor is going to match that of an Elvaan's or Galka's. Sorry, but this is one instance where size does matter. Taru weapons = my toothpicks.

[Chett]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

I have two.

One merits I love my thf and I love my mnk but i merited marksmenship up to 8/8 and had to split dagger 4/8 hand to hand 4/8 >< choices choices. I don't want to choose. Should beable to individually merit a job.

2. NO DELAY i repeat NO DELAY on attack. YOU MUST WAIT LONGER TO PERFORM THIS ACTION. I don't think so lmfao. In RL if someone swings a sword at you and you just got done fighting, that weapon is comming right back out in a heart beat. Nothing pisses me off more moving mob to mob and cannot continuously attack.

[little ninja]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

Just one? There's a lot of things I'd like to change.
Starting with the skill system. Junk it. No more lol /BLM for any job that wants to nuke on the side.
Next I'd like to change weapons and armor. Full Plate should defend like full-fucking-plate: Impenetrable. Why should some leather wearing THF who happens to have the same def as me (wearing metal armor) take the same or similar damage?
As for weapons, I'd speed up 2 handed weapons and ditch Scythe entirely as it's a farming tool and not an actual weapon tyvm SE.
Oh yeah, and all elemental magics would do the same base damage with positive and negative multipliers affecting them based on mob weaknesses and resistances. No more of this Thunder > Stone shit. Let's get back to classic FF elements.
Hmm... eliminating some of the stats would be nice. For example. instead of DMG STR and Attack... why not just STR? Keep it simple? The system we have in place now seems horribly complex compared to previous entries (to me at least)
~ Make Races matter more. I'm sorry, but there's just no way in hell that a Tarutaru's weapons or armor is going to match that of an Elvaan's or Galka's. Sorry, but this is one instance where size does matter. Taru weapons = my toothpicks.

I wear fur armor and I take allot of damage. But I agree armor needs to act like armor. I am not sure about the stats. MY beef was having a stronger DMG weapon, with 20+ more str, atk and dex vs the same race/job and my damage was not much better then theres.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

Regarding Gear-Swaps:

Its bad enough there's fucktarded penalty for gear swaps in Ballista and Brenner. I understand its there to discourage breaking target-locks, but its still fucking stupid that its there at all.

To even suggest that be implemented in the game at large is flabbergasting. Its like saying, "I don't want to play my RDM at its peak ever."

[Feba]

Re: If you could make a significant change to FFXI's battle system...

You would STILL exp in the same places.

Your point? I'm saying you wouldn't REPEAT the leveling grind. Big difference between that and leveling at all.

With gear swaps you could take over without missing a beat, with the gear-stun, you'd lose valuable time in which that tasty mage could get dropped.

Exactly! It would force people to either dress ahead or pay the consequences. If you weren't designed to tank, you don't magically start tanking. It would add depth to the game, not remove it.

...I suggest not arguing that point any further

There's a big difference between a fantasy world and being silly. There is no logical excuse for changing clothes in the middle of a fight.

Enabling near endless repeatitive actions at the push of a single button IS a bot.

Not really. And bots aren't always game breaking, either. About all that would allow you to make are skillup bots and some EXTREMELY limited farming bots.

Its like saying, "I don't want to play my RDM at its peak ever."

Not at all. The peak would just be moved from who has the largest gobby bag to who has the most well thought out gear setup in addition to their talents. Instead of just throwing more INT+ at some spells and MND+ at others, you would actually have to THINK about your equipment to balance it and be effective.

Your idea is like saying we should be able to switch jobs on the fly with no penalty, so that RDM can choose which mage sub would be the best for a given spell by it's bonuses, and that anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't care about their 'peak'.

It seems like a discussion thread to me.

Yes, for coming up with ideas. Not just for bashing them. If you don't like the aim of the thread, feel free to go start your own, or just go away.

If you want to bitch about other peoples' ideas, go elsewhere. This is not the place for it.