Common mobs with odd properties

[Ziero]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

I'm not going to lie. I skipped to the end after about page 2, and didn't see this on the front.
Have you done any research regarding rabbits? I know they have Double Attack, so they're either WAR or /WAR. But I've always had this feeling they're part THF. Partly because of their evasion and delay, and partly because whenever I use a Rabbit jug of any kind as a BST, it seems to have Treasure Hunter (It might just be me, but farming feels like it nets a lot more drops with a rabbit jug)
Any info on that would be appreciated, if only to make me not feel crazy.

If they were Thfs they'd have triple attack and absurd evasion so it's an easy test to figure out I'd imagine.

[Armando]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

I'm not going to lie. I skipped to the end after about page 2, and didn't see this on the front.

Not gonna blame you. That's part of the reason why I decided to turn the first post into the summary of all I've found.

As for the rabbits: I highly doubt it. They're included in that very short list of mob families and stat ranks I saw in the original BG thread where Nagamaki posted Studio Gobli's mob stat formulas, and there's no mention of Rabbits having a different job. Regardless, eventually I'd like to have the info for most mob families, so I'll look into it at some point.

EDIT:

If they were Thfs they'd have triple attack and absurd evasion so it's an easy test to figure out I'd imagine.

Correct. Any high level THF mob has A-ranked Evasion instead of WAR's C-rank, and Evasion Bonus III or IV depending on its level on top of that, as well as Triple Attack. It's VERY easy to rule out THF as a possibility, with the data from even just one rabbit.

I'd like to look into Crawlers because they supposedly have E-ranked Defense (whereas 99% of mobs have C-rank, regardless of job) so I might as well do that at Boyahda Tree and collect info from Crawlers, Rabbits, and Mandragora all in one go.

[Kholdstare]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

If they were Thfs they'd have triple attack and absurd evasion so it's an easy test to figure out I'd imagine.

yeah, which is why I'm more leaning towards THF sub, as I've never seen a rabbit Triple Attack in my life.

[Armando]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

yeah, which is why I'm more leaning towards THF sub, as I've never seen a rabbit Triple Attack in my life.

Mob subs aren't capped, so while it wouldn't have A-ranked Eva if that were the case, it'd still keep Triple Attack and all Evasion Bonuses.

[Kholdstare]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

Mob subs aren't capped, so while it wouldn't have A-ranked Eva if that were the case, it'd still keep Triple Attack and all Evasion Bonuses.

ah, I see.

Guess they're just Warriors, then.

[Ziero]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

yeah, which is why I'm more leaning towards THF sub, as I've never seen a rabbit Triple Attack in my life.

Honestly, offhand, I can't think of any normal mob who has Triple Attack (other then Beastmen).

Infact so far, it seems like the only jobs that normal (non-beastmen/humanoid/NM) mobs have are War, Mnk, Pld, Blm and Rdm, which, understandably isn't too varied but at the same time a bit dissappointing.

[Kafeen]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-...ed_programming
Learn it, love it and hate it.

This is a computer system, it has rules. Rules like Gravit ... Sorry, I got side tracked here.

Anyway when you develop a rules system, you don't throw it out when you have fringe cases. You don't have one set of things going on over here then spend the time to create another one over there that does exactly the same thing with minor differences.

Job Classes are created. When a mob instance is created it inherits properties from it. This simplifies programming and testing. However, maybe you don't want everything to be inherited. For instance, why should a beetle scare a skeleton? So you block that job trait farther down the inheritance without having to rewrite everything for every case.

class beetle inherits PLD { //main job (has a method called JobAbilites which includes UndeadKiller which class Beetle currently has)
method JobAbilites {} //overrides PLD method JobAbilites so we don't inherit here
}

You now have a beetle that has PLD as it's job with all the related stats and spells, without having the UndeadKiller trait. You don't have to rewrite all the PLD traits, abilities and whatnot, PLD changes happen to every PLD mob and player and happen once and only have to be tested once.

I know about Object orientated programming thanks. I'm a games programmer by profession. What you're suggesting there is the equivalent or creating a Bike class by inheriting a car and overriding the number of wheels to 2. And I can assure you, nothing ever only needs to be tested once.

Here's the thing, Kafeen. The vast majority of the time, the idea that mobs have jobs in the sense stated in this thread works out perfectly with their respective abilities, spells, and stats.

With the expection of Dynamis beastmen and a few NMs no mobs use any abilities available to any job.
Spells are usually either a sub section of what is available to a job (usually beastmen) or don't match at all. See my previous post about the spells used by the RDM/WAR pots or look at the earth only spells used by worms.

And Kafeen, why the hell are you still here? Armando has put a helluva lot of time into testing these things, and if you seriously want to debate with him you had better get at least a tiny fraction of his experience under your belt so you have a shred of credibility (not to mention knowing what the hell you're talking about)

I'm not sure why I'm still posting here to be honest. Everyone is obviously blinkered by what they've read through babelfish (wtf!) elsewhere and aren't open to any other explanation of why things don't quite add up. As for the experience, I've been playing longer than most people here, if Armando's character info is anywhere near up to date I have several times his experience.

Kafeen is essentially saying that all the hard work and time and effort that players like Armando put into the game trying to fully understand concepts like this is useless.

That's highly disrespectful. I can't believe I added Kafeen to the blocked list before I added Sev.

Not that you'll see this but that's pretty disappointing that you'd block someone because their opinion differs from yours. I honestly expected better. I've never said that the work being put in to try and understand the game concepts is useless, far from it, I think it's a very good idea to do it. All I've been doing is pointing out that the current conclusions that have been jumped to are flawed. That's what this whole thread is about. I still think that the factual information being gathered is very useful.

[Araius]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

With the expection of Dynamis beastmen and a few NMs no mobs use any abilities available to any job.
Spells are usually either a sub section of what is available to a job (usually beastmen) or don't match at all. See my previous post about the spells used by the RDM/WAR pots or look at the earth only spells used by worms.

I meant job traits, not abilities, my mistake.

And again, you're taking this job explanation much too literally. If SE made mobs spell lists and abilities identical to those of PC's it would make for a very boring and predictable game. It's simply a mechanism to approximate mob skills and in some cases, abilities and spells. You're reading too much in to it.

[Feba]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

I'm not sure why I'm still posting here to be honest.

Probably because you're a stubborn fool.

People trust that stuff because it's also been translated elsewhere, proven to work correctly, and tested many, many times by people like Armando. It is a very logical system to have. Your alternatives make little sense, and would add complexity.

As to Armando's experience, are you fucking trolling? I was very clearly talking about his experience with testing the game's stats, not experience points from grinding. Also, you might want to go learn you a calendar, Armando has been on these forums about two months longer than you. The amount of job levels you have does not make you more knowledgeable about the game's inner workings, hell, it doesn't even make you a good player. It means you can sit in a party and gain EXP, nothing more.

Armando has more than proven that he is capable of testing these things. Just sit back, STFU, and watch him do his thing, unless, again, you intend to pick this up and disprove these people who work hard even though they have no real incentive to do it.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

Armando knows more about the game's inner workings than Sage Sundi.

[Kafeen]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

And again, you're taking this job explanation much too literally. If SE made mobs spell lists and abilities identical to those of PC's it would make for a very boring and predictable game. It's simply a mechanism to approximate mob skills and in some cases, abilities and spells. You're reading too much in to it.

Perhaps so, I just think there's more to a job than its stats, as I've said in other posts. I'm not disagreeing with that ranking people are placing on their stats.

Quick question, try not to jump down my throat this time. I tried translating something from Gobli. You know, just to see what it is that makes it so special.

Three-loaded squeeze it in the next VIT look.

Lv76,77,78の防御は308,313,318

Lv76, 77,78 defense is 308313318

詩/詩の場合: E/D/D 防御C 定数8で一致 <br /> 詩/忍の場合: 一致するものはない <br /> コ/詩の場合: D/E/D 防御C 定数8で一致

Poetry / poetry: E / D / C D defense constant 8 match <br /> poetry / ninja case: There is no match <br /> Goh / poetry: D / E / C D constant defense 8 Match

(Wow, when I copy and paste that Japanese appears that isn't there in my browser, odd)

So, the question. How do you make sense of any of that?

Edit : I was wondering about the defence among other things. I'm assuming, looking at it again, that the punctustion is missing. But what is Poet? BRD?

[Mhurron]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

Armando knows more about the game's inner workings than Sage Sundi.

Lets get them in a room together and fight it out.

[Callisto]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

He also makes a hell of a pot roast.
------------------------------------------

Quick question, try not to jump down my throat this time. I tried translating something from Gobli. You know, just to see what it is that makes it so special.

The stuff was translated by bilingual players, not babelfish.

People are jumping down your throat because you're trolling. If you have a varying opinion that what we think is correct that's not a problem, but we'd like to see some data like what's been provided to back up the widely accepted theories.

Don't just say ours is wrong, go do some testing and contribute if you think you have a better theory.

Add: Seeing as how you're in an EU shell, you're possibly bilingual as well, in which case you should know as well of any of us that you don't use online translators for shit like that...then again you guys do like fanning forum drama...

[Kafeen]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

The stuff was translated by bilingual players, not babelfish.

People are jumping down your throat because you're trolling. If you have a varying opinion that what we think is correct that's not a problem, but we'd like to see some data like what's been provided to back up the widely accepted theories.

Don't just say ours is wrong, go do some testing and contribute if you think you have a better theory.

Add: Seeing as how you're in an EU shell, you probably are bilingual as well, you should know as well of any of us that you don't use online translators for shit like that...then again you guys do like fanning forum drama...

That's why I thought it odd when it was mentioned to use babelfish by some (I forget who) in an earlier post.

Ok, if you want to see some data, lets look at Gobli.

That have PLD stats listed as:
STR - B
DEX - E
VIT - A
AGI - G
INT - G
MND - C
CHR -C

With Crabs being PLD/PLD with:
VIT - C
AGI - E
INT - D
MND - D

With 4/7 stats being wrong and I haven't seen any solid testing to say the other 3 are correct this immediately throws the whole thing in to doubt for me.

http://www32.atwiki.jp/studiogobli/pages/28.html lists a whole load of mobs where their stats don't match the ones associated with their jobs.

I have to wonder why it isn't just given that Crabs are:
STR - B
DEX - E
VIT - C
AGI - E
INT - D
MND - D
CHR -C
With notes stating that it has Defence Bonus job trait or something like that?

[Taskmage]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

When stats are calculated, they add together the stat values for mainjob, subjob and race. The stat rankings you copied for crabs most likely represent the base stats of a mob with the race "crab." Thus a beetle and a crab at the same level will have slightly different stats because their racial stat rankings differ, even though their job template is the same.