Will Al Zahbi be Thrown to the Wolves?

[Sevv]

Re: Will Al Zahbi be Thrown to the Wolves?

why kill harder mobs for less exp an hour?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Will Al Zahbi be Thrown to the Wolves?

There's just one slight problem there though - beastmen are REAL monsters. They can take a beating, and worse, they can hit back. The typical colibri abusing party won't have an easy time beating them at all, let alone with anything like the same kill speed. Even comparing the classic beastmen to the Empire beastmen... all 3 classic beastmen races are stronger than mamool ja. A lot stronger. And when you do kill them, you get less exp, because sigil doesn't have the exp bonus of sanction.

Have you actually been to the fortresses. The worst you see in these fortresses are VT. They're only marginally stronger. Mamool Ja in MJSP are higher level, A VT Yagado will give you just as much of a fuss as your Lurker or Infiltrator.

SE clearly put some effort into making signet, sanction and sigil different, and they *are* different. But they're not equal.
Signet: free (no-TP-loss) resting, bonus exp for 2-5 members, can use some conquest based items, bonus def/eva against EM or lower when engaged
Sanction: latent refresh or food extension, bonus exp regardless of number of members
Sigil: latent refresh and/or food extension, free resting

Sigil gives the bonus EXP for 2-5 members, too. Remember, SE wanted to encouraged the smaller PT trend, the buffs to Signet and Sigil are why those are there, in addition to signet increaseing evasion and accuracy when dealing with EM+ mobs solo.

Regen is omitted because it's too small to matter. Conquest/IS/AN balance each other out (sort of, assuming more ways to use AN are coming in future updates). Food extension doesn't affect your exp/hr, only slightly affects your gil cost. There aren't many signet dependent items and their effects are not large. Frontliners in high-level parties rarely rest at all, while backliners have no TP to lose, so free resting isn't a significant benefit in that context.

Retaining TP while resting was more of a solo/endgame benefit than it was an EXP benefit.

The underlying motive to part of this design - which players are generally too stupid/lazy/greedy (pick one) to pick up on - was to encourage playstyles and setups players constantly cry and cry and cry about not having, as well as move away from the mandatory 6/6 IT++/Burn PTs.

RDMs that melee, BLU/PLD/DRKs able to rest MP without TP loss and jobs basically expected to solo (BST/PUP/SMN/BLM) - these are people who were supposed to benefit from the changes to Signet and addition of Sigil.

In the end, it doesn't matter how convenient the camp is to reach if it's a worse camp because (1) Sanction is better than the alternatives and (2) the commonly-exped-on TAU mobs are weaker and quicker to die than other mob families. Fashion can have a lot to do with camp locations, but in this case the fashion is backed by cold hard facts, which SE will have to change because nobody else can. Exploiting imbalances (or if you prefer, seeking out the maximum obtainable efficiency - and when you're dealing with anything other than an *obvious* bug, the line is far from clear) is a player behavior, but having imbalances at all is SE's responsibility.

I think you're giving players too much credit. You're rationalizing, which is different from the leaders who throw together PTs and trying to cram themselves into Thickets Colibri or MJSP. Half of them these days don't know of the other camps and a sizable portion of them wouldn't know how or have the progress to get to sky/sea camps, much less have promys done to access Lufaise to start with. They don't know about Ro'Meave.

They're not picking ToA camps because they're better, they're pick them because, generally, its all they know.

why kill harder mobs for less exp an hour?

Because some of us actually cap our EXP and consider it fun. Fighting something that is actually a threat instead of it just being a grind is fun to me.

[Sevv]

Re: Will Al Zahbi be Thrown to the Wolves?

Because some of us actually cap our EXP and consider it fun. Fighting something that is actually a threat instead of it just being a grind is fun to me.

I have expd off yags alot since they came out for some fun, but Id rather not spend 5 times the time getting everything merited

[Sabaron]

Re: Will Al Zahbi be Thrown to the Wolves?

...They're not picking ToA camps because they're better, they're pick them because, generally, its all they know...

I have to partially disagree with that statement. You should know that it took almost no time for the current ToAU meripo/XP system to develop. People gravitated toward it within weeks of its release. The reason people don't go to the places your suggesting is not lack of knowledge. It's a combination of inaccessibility and the prospect of lower XP/hr without the Sanction bonus.

As far as knowledge is concerned, there is no information on these areas because no one is putting it up. FFXI-Atlas isn't updated. People want research and camp sites before they go. If you want to go there so bad and it's as awesome as you predict, either post some data or stop complaining and wait.

So far, I've found the Gustaberg Worms my favorite camp. I went with a group to do two different camps. One in Grauberg and one in Sauromugue Champaign [S]. Neither was successful.

[Sevv]

Re: Will Al Zahbi be Thrown to the Wolves?

Toau camps are better bbq didn't see it because really i didnt read your full post.

30k vs 15k which is better.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Will Al Zahbi be Thrown to the Wolves?

I have to partially disagree with that statement. You should know that it took almost no time for the current ToAU meripo/XP system to develop. People gravitated toward it within weeks of its release. The reason people don't go to the places your suggesting is not lack of knowledge. It's a combination of inaccessibility and the prospect of lower XP/hr without the Sanction bonus.

They gravitated toward exploitable mobs SE is too scared to fix. Now it is well past the point SE could have fixed them because, when suggested SE fix them, numerous players said they would quit the game over such a change.

As far as knowledge is concerned, there is no information on these areas because no one is putting it up. FFXI-Atlas isn't updated. People want research and camp sites before they go. If you want to go there so bad and it's as awesome as you predict, either post some data or stop complaining and wait.

Have you been living under a rock? Its been posted days since the zones were added.

They're beastmen fortresses in the past.

What's there to know aside from the fact they added in gnoles, imps, gnats, puddings and peistes into the existing layout? You have the maps, the door codes on Castle O are the same as before, the affictors and mutes in Beadeux are gone and La Vaule actually looks like it was once inhabited and bridges are up instead of torn down like they are in present day Davoi.

The NMs in these zones are listed, shit, a decent portion of BLMs and SCHs are now running around with Vicious Mufflers for a reason.

Nastiest mobs are VT, complete with the newer WotG beastmen TP moves. You can make 15k just roaming inward and 15k back out in most of these places. Castle O is probably the most lucrative spot for PTs since it also has the gnat pellet NM pop drops.

[Omniblast]

Re: Will Al Zahbi be Thrown to the Wolves?

Toau camps are better bbq didn't see it because really i didnt read your full post.

30k vs 15k which is better.

Not only are you (BBQ) wasting your time leveling on harder mobs, but your wasting 5 other people's times as well.

[Akashimo]

Re: Will Al Zahbi be Thrown to the Wolves?

Not only are you (BBQ) wasting your time leveling on harder mobs, but your wasting 5 other people's times as well.

If it was wasting 5 other people's time they wouldn't have stayed 5 minutes.

People who take the harder challenges are the ones who actually enjoy the game. People like Sevv I bet wouldn't pay another cent if ToAU suddenly gotten taken out of and can't get lolSanction meripo.

[Sevv]

Re: Will Al Zahbi be Thrown to the Wolves?

If it was wasting 5 other people's time they wouldn't have stayed 5 minutes.

People who take the harder challenges are the ones who actually enjoy the game. People like Sevv I bet wouldn't pay another cent if ToAU suddenly gotten taken out of and can't get lolSanction meripo.

Really now? I haven't merited in sometime, most of my recent exp has been in campgain. I am sorry that i constantly get better merit parties then you, or that I dont refuse mire burns so I get better exp. I evolve with the game, instead of sitting with a single ideal, there fore I will get better exp, etc.

And just to keep something straight here, I have killed much harder challanges then most here.

[Malacite]

Re: Will Al Zahbi be Thrown to the Wolves?

People who take the harder challenges are the ones who actually enjoy the game. People like Sevv I bet wouldn't pay another cent if ToAU suddenly gotten taken out of and can't get lolSanction meripo.

^^ like for example I recently beat Fenrir on Darksday during a Full Moon without a single SMN in the PT; We were WHM NIN NIN MNK BRD BLM and managed just fine without any accidents.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Will Al Zahbi be Thrown to the Wolves?

Really now? I haven't merited in sometime, most of my recent exp has been in campgain. I am sorry that i constantly get better merit parties then you, or that I dont refuse mire burns so I get better exp. I evolve with the game, instead of sitting with a single ideal, there fore I will get better exp, etc.

You don't get the better merit PTs than the rest of us, you get the same ones most of us get. There is no longer anything special about getting 30k in an hour. It has nothing do with your gear or even having tons of merits. Meritpo is just another mindless grind in this game where no actual skill is involved.

Just every now and then, I'd prefer to have a break from that bullshit and do something different, see a different part of the game. Merit in Sea not just to get triggers, merit in Uleguard Range, Merit in Lufaise, on Trolls, on Yagudo. Merit on something that isn't pink, resistant to magic and surrounded by pussywhipped WARs who never held a GA in thier lives.

To me, EXP is EXP is EXP. I've played the jobs that lose more of it, the jobs that get it the easiest and the jobs that spend the most to get it. EXP per hour and EXP loss means very little to me. 15k is fine, 30k is fine. Chances are, I won't have to rely on LS merito just to recap.

And just to keep something straight here, I have killed much harder challanges then most here.

List what you didn't zerg, in addition to what wasn't manaburned, KC Blood Weapon-ed or CS/Stunned to death and then we'll talk about "challenge."

[BurningPanther]

Re: Will Al Zahbi be Thrown to the Wolves?

I evolve with the game, instead of sitting with a single ideal, there fore I will get better exp, etc.

Funny how thin it is, that line between progression and exploitation.

[Akashimo]

Re: Will Al Zahbi be Thrown to the Wolves?

Meritpo is just another mindless grind in this game where no actual skill is involved.

QFT.

I evolve with the game

Right, evolved into something stupid given the ToAU trend.

Just every now and then, I'd prefer to have a break from that bullshit and do something different, see a different part of the game. Merit in Sea not just to get triggers, merit in Uleguard Range, Merit in Lufaise, on Trolls, on Yagudo. Merit on something that isn't pink, resistant to magic and surrounded by pussywhipped WARs who never held a GA in thier lives.

Exception to Yags since I haven't been there yet, all fun camps when there isn't someone bitching about exp/hr that is usually the cause of the slow kills.

List what you didn't zerg, in addition to what wasn't manaburned, KC Blood Weapon-ed or CS/Stunned to death and then we'll talk about "challenge."

I agree, lets see these challenges.
Non zerg JoL and Kirin are always fun. Mostly Kirin as rdm then running for my life when I finally take hate XD Love doing that.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Will Al Zahbi be Thrown to the Wolves?

Apparently, the game is more fun and challenging when you play it from up on your high horse.

[Feba]

Re: Will Al Zahbi be Thrown to the Wolves?

Not only are you (BBQ) wasting your time leveling on harder mobs, but your wasting 5 other people's times as well.

Alright. People play the game for fun.

If fighting harder mobs is fun for them, they're getting what they pay for. And it's quite possibly a better use of their time than fighting weaker mobs.

Is it the most effective method of gaining merit points? Probably not. Is it a waste of time? Only if you play to see numbers go up instead of to have fun. And honestly, if that's the case, you might as well just pay an RMT to level your character.