Super Ultimate Osaka event wrap up

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Super Ultimate Osaka event wrap up

/sigh

I'm not a lawyer, but I think it basically works like this:

1. You wrote it--invented the wording--it's yours. You want to post it here, perfectly fine! If you don't want your words here, you have every right to ask it to be taken off. In fact, that protection exists unless you release the copyright explicitly. (There are exceptions, but let's not worry about that.)

2. You didn't write it. (Part 1.) Then, you have to ask:
2a. Is it public domain? If it is, feel free to post it. Don't even have to give credit.
2b. Is it under some sort of licensing? If it is, then follow the terms of the license to see if it can be posted, and under what rules.
3c. Is it unlabeled for copyright? This is more difficult. You'll have to assume it is under full copyright protection, and not reproducible without explicit consent from the author(s) or copyright holder(s), unless it can be reasonably established from other sources it is under some sort of licensing you can use or it is already public domain.

3. You didn't write it. (Part 2.) Then, you also have to ask: Is it copyrightable? Generally, facts and lists are not copyrightable; a list of names has no copyright, whether the names are fictional or real. However, anything which is "creative" in nature is--and the bar is set pretty low. You have no copyright over a picture you take of a painting in full frame--but, you would, if it included a few people you ask to stand next to the picture.

Or, in short,
1. Crediting author is insufficient for copying significant amount of copyrighted work,
2. Must assume author retain copyright without evidence otherwise,
3. Cannot post copyrighted material without author or copyright holder's consent (either explicitly, or in form of some sort of licensing like GNU FDL or CC).
4. If you write it on your own (w/out violating copyrights of others), it's yours to do as you please with, and choose any licensing (or none), and you can restrict reprint/repost.

[Akashimo]

Re: Super Ultimate Osaka event wrap up

Most work on the web is generally posted on the notion of that license unless the owner of the material states otherwise. Even our forum posts like these, ;3

Notice: This post may not be reposted/quoted in anyway shape or form unless red font is used to reproduce the information.

Half joking.

[Malacite]

Re: Super Ultimate Osaka event wrap up

Wiki might though >. >

Doesn't this fall under that screwy law (I forget the name) that allows use of copyrighted material to a degree as long as it's non-profit and credit is given to the creator(s)?

[Taskmage]

Re: Super Ultimate Osaka event wrap up

"This information is protected by the CC license. Information on the license is available here."

By that, it seems what Gobo did was fair play, but it would still be polite to contact the author and make sure. I'll try to do that.

[Xalioniaf]

Re: Super Ultimate Osaka event wrap up

Honestly, I think there'd be a big fuss if Elmer starts claiming exclusive ownership of all his translations. He has every right to, but the community won't react favorably to it.
Right now, it's under the Creative Commons license linked to on the BG forums. Most people who post up the information have credited him to it, and so there shouldn't have been such a fuss over this in the first place.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Super Ultimate Osaka event wrap up

The post on bg's site is on the BG wiki section. According to the bar on top,

A link attached shows that the information may be distributed as long as it's credited to the original author.
The post on ffxiwiki only said it was "from the forums".

So then we have nothing to worry about.

It's not that simple; there are three authorized versions of Elmer's info, to my understanding.
1. Elmer the Pointy's post(s) (before it was moved).
2. BG-Wiki (or equivalent section within BG forum).
3. Allakhazam.

#3 was granted direct permission by Elmer. So was #2. The OP says he copied from #1, however, for which there's no stated provision (at the time), except that we know FFXIclopedia was explicitly forbidden from copying.

If OP recopy from #2 instead, it would fall under CC-BY-NC-SA license, which:
A. Demand a compatible license.
B. Demand copying to follow author's attribution guideline. (Which can be a lot more than just giving credit.)

I've no idea what license is in use on this forum (if any), and the author's attribution guideline doesn't seem to exist--only Elmer's enforcement action gave us any clue so far as to what he would like.

* * *

Thanks Taskmage; I hope you can obtain permission, so I can shut up. ^_^;

[Murphie]

Re: Super Ultimate Osaka event wrap up

No one answered my earlier question. If Gobo had just posted a link to the original thread, would that have been an issue? I mean, people could have still discussed it, but the actual words wouldn't have been on our forums here. Which seems awfully arbitrary, but I don't really know.

[Gobo]

Re: Super Ultimate Osaka event wrap up

By that, it seems what Gobo did was fair play, but it would still be polite to contact the author and make sure. I'll try to do that.

One step ahead of you, already sent an apology PM saying I should have asked for permission before posting it, linking the thread. Hasn't answered back yet.

Not like I could have translated it anyway. I know enough Japanese to survive in Japan, but all trying to translate Kanji would make my brain melt, and I have a Lab report I should be writing. Melting brains isn't good when you have to prove you synthesized Cu(II) Glycine :/

[Murphie]

Re: Super Ultimate Osaka event wrap up

You're just missing a ] bracket.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Super Ultimate Osaka event wrap up

No one answered my earlier question. If Gobo had just posted a link to the original thread, would that have been an issue? I mean, people could have still discussed it, but the actual words wouldn't have been on our forums here. Which seems awfully arbitrary, but I don't really know.

I think that's fine, though there were (are?!) lawsuits over legality of linking to contents by content providers. (They didn't want people to be able to bypass their own portals.)

At the time, I just rolled my eyes at the whole thing, so didn't really follow those "issues".

Given that Google is still around and haven't been sued into the doghouse next to the garage as it provide people with billions of links each day, I'd think links should be OK.

Just don't quote me to any judge. >_>

* * *

Thanks Gobo, for asking permission from Elmer the Pointy. /bow

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Super Ultimate Osaka event wrap up

I thought CC's Attribution clause is meant to give original author much finer control than "anyone can use it"?

I don't know the origin of the license, so can't be sure, though.

Of course, if we are relying on CC, we have to prove that Gobo posted under license that is CC-BY-NC-SA or compatible with it.

[Gobo]

Re: Super Ultimate Osaka event wrap up

Elmer's reply to my PM:

There's no need to apologize. All I ever really ask is to throw my name on it, and usually I do that myself under the title. I do my work so the community can enjoy it, and I expect people will copy and paste it all over the place.

I was wondering why you were apologetic, and then I checked out the thread. I guess that's partially my fault for switching it under the CC license. That was just over issues with FFXIclopedia, which I later sorted out. To be fair, I probably overworked myself during the weekend and am still all jetlegged from returning from Japan. So that factored into being more cranky than the situation warranted lol. Still, it wasn't my intention to scare away people that wanted to distribute my translation to various forums and linkshell sites.

So yeah, I do all the work I do for the FFXI community to enjoy. A simple "Thanks Elmer" when you copy it is all anyone needs. You even went above and beyond re-linking the pics and all. Sorry about the confusion with the license thing. I'm going to clarify the availability of the translation in that BlueGartr thread. Also, if you don't mind, you can post this PM in the thread on FFXIOnline, since it sounds like some of the people there might like to hear this explanation too. :D

There ya go.

[Kailea]

Re: Super Ultimate Osaka event wrap up

"This information is protected by the CC license. Information on the license is available here."
By that, it seems what Gobo did was fair play, but it would still be polite to contact the author and make sure. I'll try to do that.

you kidding me... we have never done this before, and now, because one person says something? good lord -.-

[Taskmage]

Re: Super Ultimate Osaka event wrap up

"I've never washed my hands before and I got along just fine. And now because one person says something it's a good idea to wash hands now?"

[Murphie]

Re: Super Ultimate Osaka event wrap up

Not...really a very equal analogy. But I don't care enough about the issue to argue that.