Botters get pwned by Taj...

[Kailea]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Finally, I hope to see Taj's little 12 year old ass beat to the ground, and then picked back up by Bubba.......

I have heard people justify his action... even in my own LS -.- but I am sorry you can never justify breaking the law, unless its to save a life.

and I am sure I can say safely, there where no lives in danger, with anything he has done

[Kirsteena]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

It's all very well to bust Taj (and frankly, fine), but I'd like to see how he justifies selling an app that breaks the EULA when he calls in the authorities. That is what has been bugging me - he is taking money, selling an application which, as far as SE is concerned, is illegal. You can say what you like about Taj, but that doesn't change the fact about FFXIApp.

Can you prosecute someone for breaking the law in that respect? Also, has the income he has made been declared on taxes?

[Kailea]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

It's all very well to bust Taj (and frankly, fine), but I'd like to see how he justifies selling an app that breaks the EULA when he calls in the authorities. That is what has been bugging me - he is taking money, selling an application which, as far as SE is concerned, is illegal. You can say what you like about Taj, but that doesn't change the fact about FFXIApp.

well looking at it in a legal view only, selling and using that FFXIapp is not illegal, but hacking into a server is -.- The FBI is going to care less about what his program does to a game, but they will care about Taj hacking into a business server.

I think FFXIapp is the devil, and maybe the characters that where screwed with deserved it..... and Wiki did not deserve anything -.-

But that does not give Taj the right to justify hacking in any shape or form.

You could honestly give me a list of every FFXI player user name and password, and I could hate you with an ultimate passion, but I still, even with that info, would never touch your account. But thats how I am, I dont condone breaking the law, or my morals for that matter.

[Kirsteena]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Yes, but think, for a moment, about the trial aspect (assuming it gets that far) - people will want to know what this guy sells, and why the server was broken into in the first place - and lets face it, what he sells breaks the T&C of an established company, whatever you think of SE. I doubt he has declared taxes on the income, which in itself is illegal - the whole thing would have an impact on a jury. Just saying. Yes, Taj has gone too far - he did that with the server transfers, but frankly - I'm still laughing at the fact that people who broke the EULA got what they deserved.

With the impact FFXIApp has had on the game, it's very hard for me to have sympathy at that point.

FFXIApp is not a business as such - it is something a player has done on the side, and has made money out of it - that's the thing... If it were a business, IRS would be all over it.

[Feba]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Either way, there's a large difference between breaking an EULA/TOS in an online game (which might not be legally considered a contract, and is almost certainly not breaking any laws as it only modifies your own computer), where at best SE might have a right to terminate his servicr, and breaking multiple federal crimes explicitly and repeatedly.

It's sort of like, if someone is running an 'escort service', and someone breaks into their home and steals a list of clients, they have every right to go to the police and get the person arrested for breaking and entering. Committing a crime against a criminal is not legal in any sense.

[Kirsteena]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Fair enough - and I don't agree in any shape or form to what Taj has done. I hope he gets caught and gets what he deserves.

However, I'm getting annoyed by Kailea calling FFXIApp a business when it isn't one. Stick to personal data and I wouldn't have a problem, but using business as your argument when it isn't one just bugs the hell out of the pedantic side of me.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

This is all a question of ethics. We won't agree on this matter because our ethical situations and interpretations are different, same as that. Being ethical does not always equal being legal.

[Olorin401]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Well at least he can get a job working with Mitnick after he gets released from Danbury Federal Pen..

[Callisto]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Man, this thread got way too long when I was out sick yesterday...

Anyways, the surprise to me has just been players' reaction ingame to their names being on the list. The #1 response has been, 'Yeah, I cheat to claim HNM, so what?'. Not even a denial. Noone being booted from their linkshells or anything like that. I can't imagine the mind set of having 0 dignity like that and not seeing anything wrong with it. Then again I have a career and a g/f that keep me from being a 'full-time' FFXI player and doing the bulk of HNM, so these people are probably further into it than I am that they feel it's ok to cheat as long as you get your gear.

I feel better that at least I know I'm a clean player(I play on console only so that's kind of a default), and I can /laugh at these 'players' when I see them in Whitegate.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Callisto, I'm going to phrase this in a funny way.

[spoiler]Because everyone knows who my ingame friends are, and who I'm associated with. However, I won't involve my friend in any residual drama, but I'm sure that if you do a simple analogy of who is on the list, in what LSs and on what server, it might be obvious if you know me.[/spoiler]

When I asked a friend of mine what he thought of it, he just laughed saying that the most notorious claimers on the main 3 LSes on the server were on the list. And a bunch of members in their LSes.

So. Nothing happened, because the majority of the end-game scene would end.

[Callisto]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Yeah, you have a point, by now it's pretty much as if botting is just part of endgame and that's how it is. Really it just bums me out for 3 reasons:

1) I am part of 2 endgame linkshells that both stress being good players and exhibiting good sportsmanship. My Sky/HNM shell MogHouse is clean. We did have 2 members on that list, but bother were gone before we even began doing HNMs and other things of the sort, and were they not they would be now. We would rather know that we got the claim legitimately than to get the claim otherwise. I know if FraggleForce ever did HNM they'd be the same way.

2) It sucks to know that you almost need to bot just to compete in endgame now. It is definitely possible to beat botters to claims without it, I've done it several times, but still it blows to know that someone else is cheating and there isn't much you can do about it. I really don't care about lots of the gear, especially abjuration, b/c if you're dedicated you can get it from Einherjar. But I still wanted to experience the fights. I want to say I killed KB and Adamntoise and Fafnir, I have a linkshell capable of beating them, but the playing field isn't level when it comes to making the claim.

3) I'm a sportsman, I don't mind competition. If you want to camp against me, bring it on and may the best claimer win. I stay friendly and have a few moles within all of my rival endgame shells except for one(the Darkhearts linkshell of Ramuh is absolutely 100% devoid of any form of class, I blist anyone I see wearing their pearl unconditionally). It really helps to be in contact with them outside of flaming each other, but it's hard to stay friendly when I see 3-4 of their players named on that list.

[Sevv]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Both sides committed a crime and both sides are at fault.

Taj - Hacking

FFXI app - Tax evasion, as well as many other minor business crimes.

[Olorin401]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Both sides committed a crime and both sides are at fault.
Taj - Hacking
FFXI app - Tax evasion, as well as many other minor business crimes.

Ooooh hmm.. there goes their credibility in the eyes of a jury.

...just when you thought Taj wouldn't be able to look like a Robin Hood at his trial.

/sarcasm

[Kailea]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Both sides committed a crime and both sides are at fault.
Taj - Hacking
FFXI app - Tax evasion, as well as many other minor business crimes.

wait wait, not to defend FFXIapp or anything, but since when was it fact that he does not pay taxes on this little side business of his? In a legal form, his app does nothing illegal, there for he should have nothing to worry about.

[Callisto]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Eh I don't care about that end either way. It's too late to unsee the list. If SE read the list and more GMs show up to and survey the HNMs that these players and their linkshells camp, and catch a few then that makes me feel slightly better, but really there's always going to be another botter in line at this point.

Taj is a dildo for the stuff he's done to some people, whoever sells bots is a dildo for adding to the things that I really dislike about my favorite game. They're equal to me and they can both go get bent together on an island for all I care.

Side note: I wish FFXI was a console-only game. Drop the PC players and keep the PS2s.