FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

[Ziero]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

people get pissed when they get lied to, especially if it involves money.
simple as that.
all in all it's an unfortunate situation, but life goes on.

The only real lie is that they said they wouldn't sell the site. The donation money was, for the most part, used as intended. And the majority of the people who *are* mad seem to be those who didn't pay a single cent to keep FFXIWiki running. The only ones who should have any say of bad taste in the matter are those who donated money to the wiki, and as of yet I haven't seen many, if any, of those people.

[Mhurron]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

not even the police are allowed to use evidence that was obtained illegally.

*nitpick* Private citizens in non-criminal cases can.

[Amele]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

wow, ok. alot going on in here. long super post I guess (again! I need to check here more on the weekends)

So, I read that big long 'expose' post on BG about this and I'm still havin a bit of a problem understanding exactly what's goin on. So please, correct me if and when I say something wrong while I try and figure out what the hell is happening.
-FFXIWiki needed money to pay operating costs.
-They were approached by Wikia and asked to join them
-FFXIWiki said 'f u' and had a fund raiser instead, as usual
-FFXI Wiki came up short of funds and decided to lease money
-Wikia came back and gave them a fairly decent and rather nice offer to pay them a salary to do something they enjoy anyway
-FFXIWiki said 'deal!' and decided to use the remaining 2k Donations on a potential raffle/give away to those that donated
-Someone hacks the Admins account and posts all this info for everyone
-???
-Profit?
I gotta be missing something for everyone to be so pissed off about this, cause I can't really see any major lies or deceit.

Actually, the clear information says something like this:
-FFXIWiki needed money to pay operating costs.
-They were approached by Wikia and asked to join them
-FFXIWiki said 'f u' and publicly stated how bad it would be for FFXIclopedia and the community move to wikia and had a fund raiser instead, as usual
-FFXI Wiki came up short of funds and decided to lease money (They were always going to lease machines from a hosting provider. They worked outthat 12k would be enough to hold them at least till next year when they could do the same thing. They got 9k which didn't last anywhere near what 9k should have if their 12k figure was close to being right. So either they can't add or the money they did receive was horribly mismanaged)
-Wikia came back with a nice offer to pay them a salary
-FFXIWiki said 'deal!' as the money was better this time so what horrible things were going to happen to FFXIclopedia if they moved to Wikia no longer mattered and said nothing about what happened to the money raised until someone called them out over it then people who did not make the decision because they didn't own the site said something about deciding to use the remaining 2k Donations on a potential raffle/give away to those that donated
-Then Taj was a dick and did something illegal.

the issue is that the books were cooked (which is inferred from the emails that were obtained from the gmail account(s) ; coupled with the fact that, rather than denying them, they've been tacitly acknowledged - indicating that they are, in fact, real, if dubiously obtained.) and moreover, Wikia helped cook them.

they could only come up with 7k in funds (without even doing a legitimate accounting apparently) despite having spent 9k in funds. this is inexcusable. poor accounting or intentional embezzlement, someone would go up the creek for that if it wasn't a sole proprietorship at the time.

Taj asks (on BG forums, yes. but primarily because others had already asked on FFXIClopedia's forums and the question was dodged, so asked where ganiman et al. had no power to dodge the question) rather politely about the 'missing' 2k.

he gets stonewalled. BG backs him up and points out that wiki is probably doing something shady and a few hops skips and black hat convention tutorials later - there's pictures of emails detailing the exact dealings. I'm not a lawyer, but I do know something about it and what we're looking at is very very close to fraud, embezzlement and (especially) commingling.

now, FFXIC could bring a case again taj, but would need to use the obtained screenshots of the emails in the hearing; at which point because they've been admitted as evidence it would be possible to use them as evidence in a counter-case against FFXIC or Ganiman in particular for any/all of the above, and possibly against wikia for conspiracy/aiding and abetting charges.

why is BG in particular (and lots of people at other sites, like Alla, KI, and even some people here) so upset about all of this? they feel let down by FFXIC and outraged that all of this was done under the table and if not illegally, then immorally for sure.

This is BG attention whoring, as usual. Taj in particular, in this case. A setup and take down to remove a rival to a project they were wanting to do, but would have ultimately been pointless unless the wiki was gone (or, in the least case, according to the BGPlan it seems, discredited enough that they could fool the populace into supporting their iteration of the wiki).

Hi, BG attention whoring? 1) Taj is not associated with BlueGartr the linkshell any more than you or I are. 2) Taj is not even over 1000 posts on BG yet. (I actually have more than him I think. and many many regulars do) 3) BG did discuss a wiki once yes, back when FFXIC was *just* getting off the ground (about a year ago iirc. don't quote me on this please; I don't have an official answer) and dismissed it because they didn't want to step on FFXIC's toes.

in fact, alot of BG put alot of effort into the FFXIclopedia, and several regular posters there even became Junior Admin (DivisorTheory comes to mind). most of the assault information is from BG affiliated editors, almost all of Salvage is directly out of the forum threads on BG about it; most of the hit rate, accuracy, attack, defense, and damage information is compiled either from nagamaki's tests or VZX's testing and translation work.

a -ton- of the lore information comes directly from Elmer the Pointy's work.

There was absolutely no point to any of this mess. Actually, yes there is; two, in fact:
1) BG is a pit of conceited self-interest that does just as much harm as good by trying to dictate how everyone should play the game. Figuring out how the game works and providing the masses with the info is one thing; lambasting any and everyone that dares to blaspheme against the "Almighty" BG way of doing things is pathetic to the extreme.

it's interesting you say this, when the primary direction BG is thinking of taking with the missions/bc's/quests/etc is to provide information and keep strategy (especially non-useful strategy like: "I did it with x people on w y z jobs") off the main page of a given fight; letting people decide for themselves how best they want to tackle it.

this argument reminds me alot of the people complaining that Smash Bros. Series games are played by tournament players. Tournament players (not tourney scrubs who just emulate to look 'cool') generally enjoy playing it in party mode when they're not seriously competing or practicing to compete; and it's the casual players who are trying to force their view of the game on the tournament players.

does BG seriously suggest that you can't play however you like on your own time with your own friends? of course not! there's threads all over it about alternative tanks, whitemage DD, hell, there's an entire -subforum- about pankration.

what most players (on BG and elsewhere) expect is that you won't waste strangers' time with things that you haven't figured out a way to make work - and that you be able to play your job at least competently (which is a modest request by the time you reach 75.)

you'll notice that BG doesn't complain about exp before level 65; even though there's been several discussions of where/how/what to exp and when/in what combinations starting at about level 20 in their back pages.

Spending this much time and effort over something that's ultimately completely unimportant is more or less proof itself (also, the number of Tajwagoners that lined up to stroke and do other things to his e-peen is sickening in its epicness).
and
2) Anyone that donates money over the internet for any reason deserves to be laughed at and ripped off. Seriously, giving up money for free for charity over the internet... ...if you aren't aware that some of it is gonna be pocketed, please, come speak with me about some ocean-front property I can sell you in Arizona.
Please tell me people are not this fucking stupid to fall for this shit.

Apathy like this is why people get away with fraud, embezzlement, conspiracy, and disenfranchising their constituents. I'm sorry, but I don't intend to stop caring about this, on the internet, in our government, or otherwise.

Pretty much the whole truth of the matter.
BG has been really butthurt for a long time that they aren't even a "featured site" on POL, this is thier bid to get that level of attention.

you don't know anything about that topic at all. BG hasn't ever nor currently desires "featured site" status. there's a thread about it going on right now and the answer has been overwhelmingly "no thanks". Butthurt? please.

This is something kind of overlooked in the whole deal. Everyone picked up their torches and pitchforks, and BG members want to report ffxiclo for fraud...first off, web browser screenshots are easily faked(although I do not believe these were) and not even the police are allowed to use evidence that was obtained illegally.

actually, if neither side disputes the use of the evidence (you have a right to waive your right.) then it doesn't matter how evidence was obtained.

for that matter, anyone could (on their own, BG has no official stance beyond wanting to begin their own wiki to fill what they suspect will be a need of the FFXI community at large) report FFXIC for suspicion of fraud, given that it was pretty obvious that approximately 2,000$ was unaccounted for and let the authorities take it from there.

Yeah, Gani and those running the wiki did some under-handed shit to their community base. But breaching someone's private accounts to anything isn't any less of a shitty thing to do, and Taj shouldn't be anyone's hero over this. Everyone on BG thinks it's awesome, at least until they piss off Taj or someone with similar capabilities, which there's likely a lot of out there.

Taj isn't my hero. He does, however, have my respect.

some of the most important things to ever happen in the history of this country came about because uncompromising men were willing to do what they felt was necessary, despite the possible legal ramifications of their actions.

is Taj Thomas Jefferson? no. but then again, he doesn't have to be.

tl;dr: Taj isn't a villian, BG didn't make some huge conspiracy to usurp the wiki, you should've read the whole post.

[Mhurron]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

Taj isn't a villian

Nope, just a common criminal. A stupid one at that.

[Olorin401]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

To follow up Mhurron's statement, the term you're looking for is 'cracker'.

Actually the most accurate term would be "Skript Kiddie".

[Omni]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

Did he hack the actual admin account? or did he get root on the box?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

you don't know anything about that topic at all. BG hasn't ever nor currently desires "featured site" status. there's a thread about it going on right now and the answer has been overwhelmingly "no thanks". Butthurt? please.

BG as a linkshell, maybe, the forum is a different matter. I've heard the complaint a few times now. I still find the "upstart" BGWiki's timing incredibly convienient.

BG didn't make some huge conspiracy to usurp the wiki, you should've read the whole post.

The problem here is that people like you and (more annoyingly) SevIfrit seem to think we still haven't. We've all read it and we've all formed our own opinions.

Some of us clearly side with BG.
Some see FFXIC's side.
Some of us clearly don't care.
Some of us want more evidence.
Some of us think what FFXIC did was bad, but will use the site anyway because its is a good community resource.

If you're so up in arms about this, fine, but stop acting like no one here as read it. The entire FFXI community has beaten the issue to death, there have been loldebates in Whitegate about it and the person with the biggest "lawls" to gain over it are the people who don't browse forums at all.

[eticket109]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

Did he hack the actual admin account? or did he get root on the box?

he hacked the gibson with zero cool, cereal killer and acid burn

[Mhurron]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

Did he hack the actual admin account? or did he get root on the box?

Probably just had a script guess passwords against an admin account. It doesn't sound like he had any control beyond the wiki software.

[Amele]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

Actually the most accurate term would be "Skript Kiddie".

script kiddies can't code. script kiddies also can't find and utilize previously unknown exploits

Taj has proven he can do both, quite well actually. (see: primary dev of 3.3 windower, doing things in a day that it took prior devs several weeks, deconstructing the packet to get onto Atomos, finding demonstrating and explaining how to fix the area DC bug. etc)

whatever else you consider him; you have to give him that he's competent at what he chooses to do.

Nope, just a common criminal. A stupid one at that.

and you entirely missed the point of that post, apparently.

[Mhurron]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

Read pages 30? thru 40 in the first thread it the majority of bg saying taj was a dick for hacking emails.

Now, I know that a lot here are trying to make a day go faster, but damned if I'm going to read 40 pages of anything from BG's forums. I'd go stand in traffic if I wanted to mess my head up that bad.

[Omni]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

he hacked the gibson with zero cool, cereal killer and acid burn

Probably just had a script guess passwords against an admin account. It doesn't sound like he had any control beyond the wiki software.

ah yes, lemme guess... the administrator account was actually named administrator and the password was all 4 letters.

serves him right.

[Amele]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

Probably just had a script guess passwords against an admin account. It doesn't sound like he had any control beyond the wiki software.

wow people posting fast.

if I were to do it, this is how I would do it: 1) gain access to gmail (it's been quite vulnerable lately.) 2) gain access to wiki via 'forgot my password'/ force reset password

alt. you could push through the wiki and then gamble that the gmail password was the same (keep your passwords different folks) the password for the wiki in question was a standard dictionary word (one that I could've written a perl script to guess in less than 5 minutes)

if you didn't bother to -read- the post on Taj's blog, maybe you didn't realize that someone got gmail access too.

[Omni]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

ya, sorry. wasnt really caring much for the drama.

just when i hear admin account getting hacked, i auto-think of weak user/pass followed by weak admin.

[Mhurron]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

and you entirely missed the point of that post, apparently.

No I cought the attempt to make Taj look like something he's not.

you could push through the wiki and then gamble that the gmail password was the same

They don't usually call a sure thing a gamble.