GDC 2007 Keynote speech: Hiromichi Tanaka

[Coinspinner]

Re: GDC 2007 Keynote speech: Hiromichi Tanaka

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=15400

Square Enix’s next MMO will be cross platform and cross region. “A lot has changed in the last two years,” he says, referencing the game’s first announcement at E3 2005. “Development is proceeding smoothly now, with the framework now beginning to take shape. Last year we went through a development reorganization, with the development of our own cross-platform middleware – the white engine. This is the foundation for FFXIII and the new MMO. It’s safe to say that it won’t be much longer before I’m able to unveil even more secrets about what the future holds for Square Enix.”

Same keynote, different article.

Ah, it's been so long since I've posted here. :D

[Necropolis]

Re: GDC 2007 Keynote speech: Hiromichi Tanaka

I'd have to agree that attributing at least a portion of FFXI's popularity is due to the PS2. In fact, FFXI comercials and info about the hard drive is the only MMO or Final Fantasy game I ever remember seeing advertised.

Keep in mind five years agos computers were not as inexpensive and often shared amongst a family of people. While this doesn't apply to everyone, but I'd say that by being able to play an MMO via a console brought many people to FFXI.

And Murphie, stating that someone's post is 'assholish' is rather hypocritical, when out of the thousands of post you've made I've rarely see one that is helpful or isn't downgrading towards the poster. Either bitching about thier font, or arguing some mundane point that really isn't relavent in any case.

Having joined the game after it had already been out four years the only thing I'm disappointed about is that it'll probably end before I really tire of it. While I have my pet peeves with the game, they are minor compared to the amount I enjoy the game. I'll certainly be joining the new SE MMO upon it's release.

[Murphie]

Re: GDC 2007 Keynote speech: Hiromichi Tanaka

And Murphie, stating that someone's post is 'assholish' is rather hypocritical, when out of the thousands of post you've made I've rarely see one that is helpful or isn't downgrading towards the poster. Either bitching about thier font, or arguing some mundane point that really isn't relavent in any case.

You obviously don't read many of my posts then.

Regardless, my point stands. Bolding and capping a sentence is a way of talking down to other posters. It says "You can't disagree with this undeniable fact". It's childish. It's the equivalent of talking over the other side of the argument. You may feel that it's irrelevant, but I don't organize my posts around what Necropolis thinks about them.

[Necropolis]

Re: GDC 2007 Keynote speech: Hiromichi Tanaka

You obviously don't read many of my posts then.

Regardless, my point stands. Bolding and capping a sentence is a way of talking down to other posters. It says "You can't disagree with this undeniable fact". It's childish. It's the equivalent of talking over the other side of the argument. You may feel that it's irrelevant, but I don't organize my posts around what Necropolis thinks about them.

Of course you don't organize your post around what I think, you organize them around what you think. You view bolding a statement as talking down to someone, I view it as a way of reenforcing a statement one has made. Or perhaps to just catch the attention of someone just browsing through the thread. Do you view newspaper articles childish? They do bold and cap many key topics in them.

I view your declaritive sentence as insulting and demeaninig, though you probably don't intend it that way all the time. So just because you view something one way doesn't make it so for the rest of the readers.

I've read every post on this forum in the past year, to include many on the old threads. I'm familer with your post and they rarely include and information about the questions asked. They are generally short statements in the negative, sometimes just the word no. They are also rarely regarding the original topic, while guilty of it myself at times, but a large portion of yours are nothing but statements about how the above poster should or shouldn't post.

But enough from me, I've probably derailed the thread enough as is, and won't encourage it anymore. Suppose I'll just accredit it different perspectives.

[Murphie]

Re: GDC 2007 Keynote speech: Hiromichi Tanaka

What the hell do you mean by "Your declaritive (sic) sentence"? Anyway, you don't know me, even though apparently you have read all of my posts, in which I am an outright bastard. Are you sure you're not thinking of Feba?

[Necropolis]

Re: GDC 2007 Keynote speech: Hiromichi Tanaka

I suppose most sentences are of the declaritive type. They state nothing more than a fact or argument, and don't require any action or imput from others. I meant the remark more that you'll comment negatively about a post with what I consider just a few rude sentences.

It is childish.

No.

Just as a reader I find those types of post as if your saying 'This is the answer. You can't argue with me with me because I either 1) know more than you or 2) you can't prove what I say is wrong'. I find your post lacking in support for your claim. It would make someone that wants to reply fell restricted in what they say or automatically in a defensive state.

But enough derailing, I'm probably the more guilty party in this thread, and I apologize. If you wish to continue feel free to PM me or contact me on AIM.

EDIT: I meant for sentence to be sentences. Meaning your general type of post not one sentence in particular. Forgive me, it's nearing 2AM, typos will occur.

[Murphie]

Re: GDC 2007 Keynote speech: Hiromichi Tanaka

You misunderstanding the intent behind my posts isn't my problem. Most people around here get it. I'm sorry that you don't. Here's a hint: Not malicious. If you're somehow afraid to respond to an answer that I provide to a question, that's again, not my problem. Yes, I try to keep the flowery language to a minimum, but if I'm wrong, I'm happy to admit it. I'm just another poster here. I have no additional authority.

And, FYI, I just looked at my post history. I had to go back 19 pages to find a post where I'd just said "No." And guess what? It was the correct answer, and I was thanked for it by the person I was responding to.

I have no interest in continuing this conversation. Apology accepted though.

Sorry for the derail, Itazura.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: GDC 2007 Keynote speech: Hiromichi Tanaka

lol. I totally missed Murphie's response.

Well, we'll never really know, will we? It's entirely speculation, and I doubt we'll ever have an opportunity to see a repeat of an MMO launch from SE that's only on the PC.

edit: Also, putting a statement that you don't want anyone to disagree with in caps and bold is just assholish. It doesn't make you any more right. It just makes you look like a jerk.

If you follow the link within the post in question, you'll find a minor article about S-E's PC-only MMO--which failed. (That's release after the success of FFXI, so don't say it was a learning experience.) S-E's strong branding power is hardly enough ensure success.

The bolding of the statement is just an expression of frustration that so many people fail to realize how important it was (and is) to have PS2 version of FFXI.

Not sure why you thought it was "assholish", but I suppose we all bring our unique perspectives when look at words of others, and the meaning take from what we see is at least in part a reflection of our own personas.

[Murphie]

Re: GDC 2007 Keynote speech: Hiromichi Tanaka

Was that PC only MMO released globally like FFXI? Because if so, I totally missed it.

I'm not sure how you could interpret it any other way. You're frustrated that people aren't agreeing with the point you're trying to make, so you make it really noticeable, because apparently that way they will know that you mean business.

Also, thanks for calling me an asshole.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: GDC 2007 Keynote speech: Hiromichi Tanaka

Was that PC only MMO released globally like FFXI? Because if so, I totally missed it.

No, it was not. I merely mentioned Fantasy Earth as an example how S-E's branding power can fail even in its home market, when the company ignores its strength--the console games.

Edit:
Was too distracted (camping NM, among other things), and wrote up a totally wrong response because I read too much into the quoted portion. (Inappropriately connect it with an earlier response by Murphie, to be more exact.) Apologies to Murphie.

... (the rest) ...

... Lost interest in the boldface interpretation "controversy". Sorry.

[Murphie]

Re: GDC 2007 Keynote speech: Hiromichi Tanaka

What does all that info about FFXI have to do with the question I asked? FFXI being intended for global release, but first coming out on the PS2 in Japan has very little to do with whether or not this PC only MMO was a global release.

Yes, it's perfectly reasonable to extrapolate that because of the PS2, FFXI is where it is today, but it's a bit arrogant to state that if the PS2 hadn't been part of the equation, then FFXI would have failed miserably.

And it wasn't intended to be a controversy. It was just a damn statement. Jesus Christ.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: GDC 2007 Keynote speech: Hiromichi Tanaka

What does all that info about FFXI have to do with the question I asked? FFXI being intended for global release, but first coming out on the PS2 in Japan has very little to do with whether or not this PC only MMO was a global release.

Got a previous set of arguments stuck in my head; sorry about the confusion. Post fixed. (More or less.)

Yes, it's perfectly reasonable to extrapolate that because of the PS2, FFXI is where it is today, but it's a bit arrogant to state that if the PS2 hadn't been part of the equation, then FFXI would have failed miserably.

I can agree with that to an extend; my words were:

The decision to launch on PS2 deserves a lion's share of credit for FFXI's sucess.

It boggles my mind that players keep thinking "FFXI would've been so much better without PS2", when it's much more likely FFXI would've been nothing more than a minor footnote in gaming history if not for PS2."

Or, if you like a less "fluffy" rephrase, "FFXI may not be here today if not for PS2."

I strongly suspect it's "probably not be here" instead of "may not be here", with "here" meaning a stable, 500,000 subscriber strong MMORPG.

[Murphie]

Re: GDC 2007 Keynote speech: Hiromichi Tanaka

Well, as I said much earlier in the thread, we'll probably never know. The fact is, the PS2 is here now. It's a part of our reality, and complaining about it isn't going to do anyone much good so long as the bulk of the playerbase (at least in Japan) is still using it.

That obviously wasn't directed at you, because you're not making that claim. Just to be crystal clear.

[Kuro]

Re: GDC 2007 Keynote speech: Hiromichi Tanaka

I don't ever see SE ever making a FF game come out on the 360 first off, or exclusive.

Just look at 360 sales in Japan and its just a dumb idea. they hate 360 there. Then again, SE have done dumb things before...

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: GDC 2007 Keynote speech: Hiromichi Tanaka

Those who are interested in the original topic but hasn't followed the link I posted, please note that the link posted by Coinspinner is much better, and well worth a read.

* * *

Edit:

Regarding Sage Sundi's presentation on RMT, from the Gamasutra article:

Some RMT Lessons From The Game

Along the way, Square Enix came up with a number of conclusions during the RMT battle.

1. Most larger RMT organizations are connected. With the exception of a few small independent parties, almost all of the larger RMT organizations were connected to one another. With common funds, they’ve formed a type of network.

2. Removing front-end sellers and ‘banks’ is not enough. “This is just a temporary solution, and was one of our first mistakes. It stemmed from not understanding how these groups really operated. When we did this, it encouraged the remaining hunters to work harder to compensate for losses. That’s when we switched our tactics to search databases for the hunters. This was much more effective.”

3. They’ll be back. “No matter if we ban them, they’ll create a new account and get back to work. It’s like a game of cat and mouse, with persistence being the key to victory.”

4. Maintain a good data log system. “We required the help of the development team. Their tactics change – they could be using bots, or warping to complete the same quest. “

5. Never stop modifying the game system. “With every patch, we gather feedback and fix some of the most critical problems. But we have to be careful that our changes won’t too heavily affect our players.”

6. Set fair guidelines to determine whether a player can be determined as a RMT player. “We can’t ban whole countries, or just go on tips. It’s just unacceptable and irresponsible. This guideline has to be kept internal, otherwise people would know how to exploit it within weeks.”

7. Just like in America, nobody likes working with lawyers. “But we have to join hands and fight the good fight, and sometimes lawyers can be our best ally. Once we had their support, we were able to confront RMT groups with the knowledge that a lawyer would be there if they didn’t respond.”

In terms of results, approximately 2/3 of RMT sites supplying FFXI have disappeared, and 90% of ‘hunters’ have been removed.

#1 seems especially scary.

Thinking back, I vaguely remember IGE claiming they only take Gil and pay cash to independent farmers/hunters/whatever, and were not involved in orchestrating those contractors' day-to-day EULA breakage. Sage Sundi contradicts that picture; with all the RMT outfits are working together, it's hard to believe IGE isn't a part of this "network of common funds". Heck, for all we know, they may have created such a network.

I'm rather surprised at #2 as well; I would have thought taking RMT's Gil--their product, the closest thing to cold hard (RL) cash--would demoralize them. Apparently, they are some tough cookies.

#5 shows the weak point of S-E's strategy, I think; "This guideline [to determine if a player is RMT] has to be kept internal, otherwise people would know how to exploit it within weeks" is essentially proclaiming they rely on secrecy of procedures.

Such approach usually leaves the procedures under-examined, and vulnerable to undetected exploits for long period of time. A more open approach, with players helping to spot weaknesses, will result in lots of short term headaches, but should result in a much more robust system in due time, thanks to so many more eyes looking for holes and reporting them.

The claim for "approximately 2/3 of RMT sites supplying FFXI have disappeared" seems believable; S-E can find and count those sites easily enough--just about any FFXI site with Google ads will have advertisement of those. x_x;

I do wonder how the company could be sure that "90% of 'hunters' have been removed," though...