What the hell is wrong with Melee?

[Malacite]

Re: What the hell is wrong with Melee?

Without /WHM though SMN is almost useless in a PT, and can you imagine NIN or PLD without /WAR?

That's just my point. These jobs can still use their main abilities to do their intended roles, but all 3 rely so heavily on their subs it's not funny. That's my point, and that's what I hate.

[Aksannyi]

Re: What the hell is wrong with Melee?

I disagree about SMN though. SMNs are GREAT if they actually get to go to a party to SUMMON. They can sub DRG for all I care if they get to be in a party with an actual WHM who does not need any healing support at all. Even with a good main healing RDM, SMN who is actually summoning like they're supposed to does not need WHM sub.

PLD and NIN I agree with though, PLD to a lesser extent. DRK pulls hate better than PLD (w/o WAR sub) just by using Last Resort or Souleater in most cases. PLD needs a good hate spike ablity like that with a short recast timer. 5 minutes just isn't short enough for general hate grabbing usage.

I do believe PLD needs their own voke ability, it would make them able to sub many different things and therefore have a great deal more versatility without always being forced into the same damn subjob just for one freaking job ability. But that's a whole other issue, and it's 2:45 AM. Bedtime.

[Theyaden]

Re: What the hell is wrong with Melee?

I disagree about SMN though. SMNs are GREAT if they actually get to go to a party to SUMMON. They can sub DRG for all I care if they get to be in a party with an actual WHM who does not need any healing support at all. Even with a good main healing RDM, SMN who is actually summoning like they're supposed to does not need WHM sub.

It's just like the blm. They sub whm so they have that extra utility to throw an backup cure if everything hits the fan. (It's not what they're designed for but are expected to have) I think summoners should be able to use their summons more, but I do expect a summoner or a blackmage to have the /whm as part of their party duties. Hopefully it ends up being an unneeded precaution, but it does add slack to the system when Murphies law strikes.

I do believe PLD needs their own voke ability, it would make them able to sub many different things and therefore have a great deal more versatility without always being forced into the same damn subjob just for one freaking job ability. But that's a whole other issue, and it's 2:45 AM. Bedtime.

I think defender is a useful trait as well not to mention the added damage per hit /war.
If Paladin's had voke in class they would be expected to always sub ninja instead of war for the shadows just like warriors are currently. We'ld trade being pigionholed into one sub for another.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: What the hell is wrong with Melee?

I disagree about SMN though. SMNs are GREAT if they actually get to go to a party to SUMMON. They can sub DRG for all I care if they get to be in a party with an actual WHM who does not need any healing support at all. Even with a good main healing RDM, SMN who is actually summoning like they're supposed to does not need WHM sub.

I've seen a quite few pre-Lv.70 "DD" SMN who melee with avatars and "Blood Pact: Rage" only. They suck--I don't mean PUP-without-Automaton kind of output, I mean "barely above DRG's wyvern" kind damage here. No SMN has ever made a convincing case in front of me that DD SMN can work before Lv.70.

If doing buffs, that's still still one buff every minute. If melee'ing avatars and doing both Rage and Ward, a SMN would run out of MP fast. Even cutting out avatar melee'ing, the MP still would not last with both sets of BP's.

Then, for a support role SMN, what to do with MP which is too little for Rage and the time between Wards? They should be curing and casting -na spells, IMO.

SMN who only uses Blood Pacts are not "GREAT"--they are sub-par. (I would also argue those who only Cure, too, are sub-par. lol.) SMN/DRG? Automatically gimped, unless that two-handed update is even more broken than I thought.

* * *

One of these days, I hope to see a SMN in party volunteer something like "Hey, the THF doesn't have anyone to do Distortion with. Want me to open it for him?" It'd be great if I never have to teach another Lv.30+ SMN how to SC again (esp. since I've never done it on SMN myself. lol. >_< ).

[Dymlos]

Re: What the hell is wrong with Melee?

What they could do for upping the SC damage, instead of the person closing the SC, the damage should be factored by both WS dmg. Or just change it so mobs don't resist it like 99% of the damn time.

[Aksannyi]

Re: What the hell is wrong with Melee?

(The sub DRG part was a joke.) :p

Well, truthfully maybe they are not great. I've never seen a SMN even try to summon to his/her full potential in XP party without a PL, because they're always being a pseudo-whm. So maybe a bit of exaggeration. I still don't think WHM sub is absolutely necessary for SMN, there are other options but no one is willing to try them out.

[Akashimo]

Re: What the hell is wrong with Melee?

(The sub DRG part was a joke.) :p
Well, truthfully maybe they are not great. I've never seen a SMN even try to summon to his/her full potential in XP party without a PL, because they're always being a pseudo-whm. So maybe a bit of exaggeration. I still don't think WHM sub is absolutely necessary for SMN, there are other options but no one is willing to try them out.

1337 cookie cutters killed the will to.

[Aksannyi]

Re: What the hell is wrong with Melee?

That's it, then, my SMN is 17 and from now on I'm subbing something OTHER than WHM. Maybe just BLM or something not so terribly unconventional, but no one will be able to give me any shit! Yarrrrrr!

(I'm probably just talking out my ass ...)

[DakAttack]

Re: What the hell is wrong with Melee?

Along with Skillchains and Magic Bursts, they need to add Experience Bursts. Perhaps 30-50% EXP increase, or 10-30% based on the level of the skillchain.

[Akashimo]

Re: What the hell is wrong with Melee?

That's it, then, my SMN is 17 and from now on I'm subbing something OTHER than WHM. Maybe just BLM or something not so terribly unconventional, but no one will be able to give me any shit! Yarrrrrr!
(I'm probably just talking out my ass ...)

Mah hero

[BurningPanther]

Re: What the hell is wrong with Melee?

That's it, then, my SMN is 17 and from now on I'm subbing something OTHER than WHM. Maybe just BLM or something not so terribly unconventional, but no one will be able to give me any shit! Yarrrrrr!
(I'm probably just talking out my ass ...)

I dare you. I double dare you.

Do it. Do it. DO IT.

[Malacite]

Re: What the hell is wrong with Melee?

SMN is fundamentally flawed. Perpetuation costs + BP Costs (all on 2 1 minute timers -.-) and crap melee damage = a joke of a job.


I can't understand why SE hasn't done anything about this yet. Even at level 70 when SMN can actually do good damage, the regular avatar melee still isn't worth it, and if you're using those 70 BP's each fight you'll quickly find yourself out of MP.


Something's got to give here. Now back on topic?

[Eauijhkuu]

Re: What the hell is wrong with Melee?

From the screenshot of the original post, it seemed like you guys were PTing in Mount Zhaylom (sp)

Setup when I was through this was THF/WAR (yours Truly), PLD/WAR, WAR/NIN, SMN/WHM RDM/BLM BLM/WHM.

Talk about complete ownage with light SCs.

Mistral Axe Opening
Sharkbite Closing
(Shaved off 50% of Eruca's HP, and was hardly resisted)

SMN burst w/ Carbuncle's Meteorite.
RDM Burst w/ Blizzard III
BLM burst w/ Blizzard IV
= Ownage, usually in less than 45-50 seconds.


Best party ever.

Of course the only reason things like this are inefficient is because people claim that once the BLM runs out of MP, you have down time.
Not necessarily the case.

EXP bonuses are practically done when you hit chain # 10 tho.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: What the hell is wrong with Melee?

I still remember Light SCs and MBs taking all, if not, most, of a Deco Weapon's HP.

And Deco Weaps are still stonger than mobs in ToAU. Hell, Golems are the strongest EXP mobs in the game (possibly second or tied with Lufaise, but outclassed by Kindred Demons... But no one in their right mind exps off the effin Kindred anymore...).

[Malacite]

Re: What the hell is wrong with Melee?

I still find SC's get resisted at least 75% of the time, and as a SAM it's very annoying.