So, how do you think will change the game?

[Vyuru]

Waayyy to early to tell yet, but I was curious. The two handed damage formula change was huge, more testing needs to be done but just from what I have seen it looks like darn near anyone with a two handed weapon can now use one in exp parties.

What I'm curious is to hear other people's opinions, *most* jobs can equip a two handed weapon, and I think that any job that can has like a B skill in it, except for Rdm, so,
will Smn be able to melee and use Spirit Taker, letting their summons stay out longer? Will Paladins be able to take up more of a DD/support role with Gswords? Will we *gasp* see a few staff weilding Monks?

Will something even cooler that I can't even imagine take place because of this?

And just how tough ARE the WoTG mobs gonna be?

[Kuro]

Re: So, how do you think will change the game?

VERY

I forsee mobs as strong as ToAU's last boss everywhere. But with armys of good guys

I'd love to see quarter staff weilding monks, some people will stikll go the duel weird route, Lots of WAr I nkow can't be arsed to lv their gimp GAX so there's gonna be some drama. Lots of anti war rep might be comeing their way without their beloved rampage.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: So, how do you think will change the game?

Will we *gasp* see a few staff weilding Monks?

I kind of shudder at that thought. If MNKs give up 2 job traits and their accompanying 6 upgrades -- which are there for purely DD purposes -- in order to DD with Staves, something is amiss.

[Necropolis]

Re: So, how do you think will change the game?

While I don't think mnks would switch to staves full time, I could see it being applicable in certain situations. At least the option is there.

I really forsee an update to this, to have 95%+ acc without sushi seems a little broken. Perhaps damage might be adjusted, but I think a lot of people will be crying foul if it goes unchecked for too long.

I have no problem with 2 handers being brought up to dual wield standards of before, but to have that kinda of accuracy and damage with the addition to the stats on grips as well seems slightly overpowered.

Or perhaps they won't change it at all, who knows. Maybe the new era will be lolwar and lolmnk. I really don't see bard being replaced with cor, but working more in tandem with each other. Now that madrigal is useless for 2 handers and cor has no haste rolls, bards will be barrad/march whores. Cor will now be desired for the attack/double attack and such rolls. Though I think 2brds will still function just fine.

Maybe just skeptical, but I think we'll see a few adjustments before too long.

[Legal Fish]

Re: So, how do you think will change the game?

I think they did the what they did to RNG: They changed too much, too fast.

-STR to Attack conversion.
-DEX to Accuracy conversion.
-pDif cap adjustment/nerf.
-WS adjustment.
-And I think there are tests showing level correlation changes?

2-handers being able to rip capped accuracy out of nowhere with little cost has really changed things for one. A very shitty DRG can keep up or surpass a pretty good WAR(who isn't using Great Axe).

I think the game will see itself fall into another trend and not receive the balance everyone was hoping for.


Now how could this achieve balance?

-If there is a major level correlation change, adjust it so it becomes very minor... maybe a few points off the cap compared to someone who isn't 2-hand.

-Remove the adjustment to the pdif... it was fine the way it was. H2H, Dual Wielders, and 1-hand weapon users should naturally be better at DoT, that's game balance for not being better WSers than

-1 DEX to 1 Acc bonus should be removed to 2-hand users.

Perhaps give it to a 1-hand weapon users who are not dual-wielding, to represent their combat finesse. Maybe restrict to shields by size for the sake of flavor?

Speaking of Shields, add new ones to do what grips did, provide that extra bonus that having a second weapon could. Sure, there are some, but releasing awhole bunch of shields meant only to boost combat stats would be nice. Have one or two with Haste+%, Crit rate, and basic STR/DEX.

THF/WAR becomes lovely. BST,


So you got:

2-hand weapon users: Power Attackers. Strongest WSes and slight bonuses against higher level opponents. (1 STR = 1 Atk)

1-hand users: Focus more on their single attack, giving them more precision than the other two groups. (1 Dex = 1 Acc). They also benefit from having access to a bunch of new shields meant to boost their combat stats.

Dual Wielders: Speedsters. They lack the bonuses above, but they benefit greatly being able to attack fast.

Now there is MNK, which is in an interesting spot I guess. They are hurt most by the pDif change in my opinion. Do they really need a buff? They have so many job abilities, varying from Chi Blast to Focus to Chakra. I think without that pDif nerf, they are quite fine. However, I wouldn't mind seeing them get a big boost in Guard(to the point of tanking VTish mobs like a PLD would) and maybe have Chakra be quite a bit stronger.

[Ziero]

Re: So, how do you think will change the game?

will Smn be able to melee and use Spirit Taker, letting their summons stay out longer?

No

Will Paladins be able to take up more of a DD/support role with Gswords?

No

Will we *gasp* see a few staff weilding Monks?

No

Will something even cooler that I can't even imagine take place because of this?

Doubtful

And just how tough ARE the WoTG mobs gonna be?

My guess, just as strong as most 50-75+ mobs

As awesome as the 2 handed update is, I can see it being 'fixed' very soon, it's just too damn strong. But regardless, Plds will always be better with swords, mnks will always be better with fists and Smns will always be better with magic. It might help small group/soloing/farming type situations, but anything major will stay the same. It's just that now Sams, Drks, Drgs and Gaxe Wars will be doing far more impressive dmg.

[Callisto]

Re: So, how do you think will change the game?

As someone who has spent that last forever xping constantly with DRGs and DRKs(because they are my good friends), to have a bunch of /NINs come try to take over our merit camps and talk down to us because we "don't kill fast enough" and toss around their retarded lolDRG and lolDRK nonsense, I for one am f@$#ing stoked.

Let them be broken and overpowered. I don't care, as long as it shuts the unskilled TP burn whores up about how amazing they are when all they do is engage, cast Utsu, and fire off WS at 100%, like that takes more skill than an untrained chimp possesses.

:D

[Ziero]

Re: So, how do you think will change the game?

Now there is MNK, which is in an interesting spot I guess. They are hurt most by the pDif change in my opinion. Do they really need a buff? They have so many job abilities, varying from Chi Blast to Focus to Chakra. I think without that pDif nerf, they are quite fine. However, I wouldn't mind seeing them get a big boost in Guard(to the point of tanking VTish mobs like a PLD would) and maybe have Chakra be quite a bit stronger.

Hasn't it been established that there was no nerf, but infact it's just easier for everyone to reach the Dmg cap on TW mobs? Armando got the numbers crunched somewhere on this site, but I suck at math so I didn't really understand it all.

Though I do agree the Dex = Acc thing is ridiculously broken, just changing that back would be enough to balance things out again imo.

[Legal Fish]

Re: So, how do you think will change the game?

The nerf is a small one, that's the argument of some. What it does really is put gimpish players on the same level as hard working players because it's much eaiser to hit that cap. It really wasn't necessary.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: So, how do you think will change the game?

As someone who has spent that last forever xping constantly with DRGs and DRKs(because they are my good friends), to have a bunch of /NINs come try to take over our merit camps and talk down to us because we "don't kill fast enough" and toss around their retarded lolDRG and lolDRK nonsense, I for one am f@$#ing stoked.

Keep in mind you weren't mistreated by a job, or a subjob. You were mistreated by people. Those same people will jump on the SAM/DRG/DRK bandwagon should this 2 handed update go unchanged. And they'll continue to act like dirtbags, bringing embarrassment to the new top jobs of this game.

Let them be broken and overpowered. I don't care, as long as it shuts the unskilled TP burn whores up about how amazing they are when all they do is engage, cast Utsu, and fire off WS at 100%, like that takes more skill than an untrained chimp possesses.

I don't see how this is going to change. Instead of MNK/NIN, WAR/NIN, and NIN/WARs doing unskilled TP burn, it'll be SAM/NIN, DRG/NIN and DRK/NINs (and GAxe WAR/NINs) doing the same thing.

Sure, some of them will sub SAM to take advantage of Hasso. But once they get tired of being MP sponges, they'll start subbing NIN for damage mitigation.

[Callisto]

Re: So, how do you think will change the game?

You might be right LH. I'm still waiting for the patch where RDM gets Vorpal and the WSC becomes 200% STR for RDM only, though. >.>

[Vyuru]

Re: So, how do you think will change the game?

-And I think there are tests showing level correlation changes?

It was mentioned in the update notes that two handed weapons will be more effective vs higher level monsters and monsters with higher levels of defense.

A very shitty DRG can keep up or surpass a pretty good WAR(who isn't using Great Axe).

I honestly think you are overstating things there, a very shitty drg will still be a shitty drg, maybe we just have different definitions of what a pretty good warrior is, but IMO the warrior will still come out ahead.

-1 DEX to 1 Acc bonus should be removed to 2-hand users.

Perhaps give it to a 1-hand weapon users who are not dual-wielding, to represent their combat finesse. Maybe restrict to shields by size for the sake of flavor?

Speaking of Shields, add new ones to do what grips did, provide that extra bonus that having a second weapon could. Sure, there are some, but releasing awhole bunch of shields meant only to boost combat stats would be nice. Have one or two with Haste+%, Crit rate, and basic STR/DEX.

I'm fine with the 1 str = 1 att thing, and the boosted WS.

However the 1dex = 1acc is where things get a little sticky.

First off I will say that I am against giving it to one handers. This update IMO was targeting War, Sam, Drk, Drg, Pld, and Bst. With the update, any one of these jobs can use a two handed weapon really well, even if they only have a B- in the skill as in the case of Bst, the accuracy change may be powerful enough to change that.

If you move the 1dex = 1acc to one handers, then most likely War, Drk, Pld, and Bst will immediatly go to one handed weapons, Sam and Drg are left out there. Yes, you can argue that Sam and Drg can just use sushi, but I highly suspect that War, Drk, and Bst will outdamage them due to meat dishes, +att abilities and spells, pets, and lord knows what else.

The way it is now almost every melee DD job has access to good two handed weapons in addition to a good skill level in a two handed weapon category, but not every melee who uses a two handed weapon has access to good one handed weapon with good skill in it as well.

While the dex = acc thing does bother me a little bit, at least most melees have access to two handed weapons. The only real exception that I know of is Thf, but those guys are already so strong that I have to ask does it really matter?

[Legal Fish]

Re: So, how do you think will change the game?

I honestly think you are overstating things there, a very shitty drg will still be a shitty drg, maybe we just have different definitions of what a pretty good warrior is, but IMO the warrior will still come out ahead.

Not really. You get so much accuracy and attack from just having a STR and DEX base stat that you pretty much fulfill a good amount of that accuracy needed to hit that 95% cap, which would allow you to use Meat... for even more insane attack.

First off I will say that I am against giving it to one handers. This update IMO was targeting War, Sam, Drk, Drg, Pld, and Bst. With the update, any one of these jobs can use a two handed weapon really well, even if they only have a B- in the skill as in the case of Bst, the accuracy change may be powerful enough to change that.

If you move the 1dex = 1acc to one handers, then most likely War, Drk, Pld, and Bst will immediatly go to one handed weapons, Sam and Drg are left out there. Yes, you can argue that Sam and Drg can just use sushi, but I highly suspect that War, Drk, and Bst will outdamage them due to meat dishes, +att abilities and spells, pets, and lord knows what else.

This is where you are wrong, Vyuru.

1-handed weapons needed just as much of a fix as 2-handed weapons did. The real problem was dualwield was better than 2-handed weapons and were practically a requirement for jobs like THF and BST.

A DRK would have to be retarded to switch from Scythe(or even Great Sword) to Axe for some Accuracy, when they are losing Accuracy in the move to begin with.

Now, I think I did oversight something... and so did SE.

Base Stats should not be effected by the STR and DEX conversions. It should be gear, merits, spells and job abilities only(uh, and Potions?). This fixes a lot of the problem with our current situation too.

Then the bonus simply is just a boost to gear. STR gear is better on 2-handers and DEX gear is better on 1-handers who are not dual wielding.

[Vyuru]

Re: So, how do you think will change the game?

Not really. You get so much accuracy and attack from just having a STR and DEX base stat that you pretty much fulfill a good amount of that accuracy needed to hit that 95% cap, which would allow you to use Meat... for even more insane attack.

Meanwhile compare that to how one handed weapons work now, a warrior with a Maneater and a Joyeuse, or a Maneater and a Woodville, eating sole sushi with a standard warrior gear setup should still easily crush a poorly equiped drg. There is still Berserk and Aggressor to deal with, and a Haste setup, plus the gear that warriors can wear that drg can't.

A DRK would have to be retarded to switch from Scythe(or even Great Sword) to Axe for some Accuracy, when they are losing Accuracy in the move to begin with.

Yet I saw these drk/nins all the time before this update. At level 75, the difference between a B- and a A+ weapon rating is 36. A hume drk/nin at lvl 75 will have a base +acc of 69, which now roughly compensates for a B- weapon's rating.

It *used* to happen, if it happens now I don't know what to think about that drk, but if the dex=acc formula was given to one handers I am pretty confident that most drks would go to dual axes or something like that.

Then the bonus simply is just a boost to gear. STR gear is better on 2-handers and DEX gear is better on 1-handers who are not dual wielding.

My only concern with that would be gear options for jobs, War, Bst, Drk, Sam and I think Ninja have access to all the heavy armors which seem to have all of the good +stat stuff on them, some jobs are more restricted in gear options, a bit general but it's true.

[Kailea]

Re: So, how do you think will change the game?

here we go the bitching starts, you don't think SE thought this out, and tested it alot before making these changes? If they need to they will adjust to balance it if they want, but ultimately if they don't want to, they don't have to.

I have been leveling DRG since I unlocked it, playing this game since the PC release... and I still only have it at 65, partly due to the BS that DRG got all the time, now for once, I can actually preform very well, and all I hear is bitching.......