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  • What makes FFXI different?

    I played at NA release, left for some other games (wow included) and am now back. I want to say that I'm here because FFXI brings something that I can't get with any other MMO, something substantially different. I just can't put my finger on what it is.

    In discussions of the "next big mmo revolution" there are a lot of things bantered about. A lot of things that FFXI doesn't do. The leveling is slow. Farming is a requirement if you want even decent gear. Death penalties come in the form of xp loss and the kind you can actually level down from. It's an older game with older ideas. Very wave 1.5, you can see the EQ1 shining through.

    That being said, it's different. I've played a ton of MMOs back to Meridian59 and it all feels the same. Rathunter 3D. Even up to WoW and some of the closed beta products out there, it is still the same "Get Quest. Kill Stuff. Get Reward" or "Mass Murder till Ding" mechanics. I'm installing SotNW today but I expect more of the same. You also see similar mechanics in FFXI. So what is it that sets this game apart from the others?

    Looking at combat, there's a lock-on camera that makes fights feel more cinematic. I can see an immediate difference when I unlock. It feels more game and less of an experience as soon as I click the button. There are also skillchains. Extremely rewarding from, if nothing else, a visual level. You really feel the teamwork when a series of skills drop followed by a successful MB. The reward is easily seen, both in the fight and simply on screen. This is totally the opposite of a game like LOTRO, whose combat is the lowest of hack-and-slash drudgery.

    Outside of combat you have cutscenes, big and small. I feel much, much more immersed in any quest I do where the npc is talking to me, not just feeding me text. AC2 had something similar but nowhere near as polished and including as you see in FFXI. It's something totally ignored in any other game I've seen and FFXI gets you into it from the second you roll up as a new player.

    I can't say that the world is new, because it isn't. Instanced zones full of generic wildlife are old hat. The variation in the races isn't a big thing because most games have something similar. I do, however, see the job system as a big standout. Barring buttersheep subs and still-existing job prejudices, there's a lot of variety. And, since it's all attached to one character, a real feeling of permanence and growth. Similar to EVE, where most people focus on one main and maybe a mule, FFXI really builds a feeling of life around a single entity. All other MMOs I've played tend to favor feeding alts as a way to give content but the problem with that is that you need to redo all of your old quest content to get anywhere. FFXI happily skips a lot of that, with the exception of subjob level grinds. That, like the other games, can be mitigated by just leveling somewhere different. If you're willing to suffer slow soloing or are lucky enough to have a partner.

    So what is it? Is it the combat cam, renkei, cutscenes and jobs or is there something else I'm missing entirely?

    Or am I just being nostalgic? Is it because I know the game and love what I do about it that is letting me ignore the generic EQ1-standard drudgery that's keeping me out of so many other games?

    Serious design questions, all. No fanboy flag waving, if it can be avoided.

  • #2
    Re: What makes FFXI different?

    Comraderie, where applicable. Most of my fond memories are with friends. Not so with other games.

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    • #3
      Re: What makes FFXI different?

      I got a lot of that with EQ1 but I think that's something I missed about FFXI as well. Due to the unforgiving nature of the content you're forced into social situations so often that you meet people. EZ-Mode games like WoW, and a lot of what's on the coming curve, don't give much incentive to meet people so you really miss out on the good interaction.

      My woman and I fired up our accts the same weekend and within a few hours were getting tells from people we knew way back when. Something I wouldn't expect from other games.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: What makes FFXI different?

        I'd chalk it to SE's magic (in a similar way to Disney magic and how their movies just seem to get to you when you're a kid).


        It's not any one thing, but rather a combination of everything the game does right. It's also the first every online Final Fantasy (and hopefully not the last. Though I admit it'd be hard accepting another realm. There's just something about Vana'diel...)


        The people you meet on here have a large influence too. Most MMO's I've seen are much more solo friendly, which while that isn't necessarily bad, it doesn't inspire the community spirit that FFXI does. By forcing us to work together (as infuriating as it is at times) we forge bonds out of necessity which we soon grow to appreciate.


        I suppose that's why I love this game best. Out of all the FF's made so far, all the great and amazing stories and battle systems etc, I still love 11 the most and always will ^^b


        My only nitpicks are that we'll never see it in next-gen graphics and that Nobuo Uematsu hasn't been doing the bulk of the music (Naoshi Mizuta is good, but Nobuo is GOD.
        sigpic


        "BLAH BLAH BLAH TIDAL WAVE!!!"

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        • #5
          Re: What makes FFXI different?



          /jk
          Originally posted by Armando
          No one at Square Enix has heard of Occam's Razor.
          Originally posted by Armando
          Nintendo always seems to have a legion of haters at the wings ready to jump in and prop up straw men about hardware and gimmicks and casuals.
          Originally posted by Taskmage
          GOD IS MIFFED AT AMERICA

          REPENT SINNERS OR AT LEAST GIVE A NONCOMMITTAL SHRUG

          GOD IS AMBIVALENT ABOUT FURRIES

          THE END IS COMING ONE OF THESE DAYS WHEN GOD GETS AROUND TO IT
          Originally posted by Taskmage
          However much I am actually smart, I got that way by confronting how stupid I am.
          Matthew 16:15

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          • #6
            Re: What makes FFXI different?

            This is just my opinion but for me it's the difficulty in the game.

            The game is tough there is no denying that in alot of aspects. However because of it's difficulty it creates something beautiful. It's because PTing is so hard that we are able to appreciate the people who we PT with and have a good time. It is because the missions are so tough that your able to seperate who will really stay by your side and those that will ditch you for someone/something else. Through all these trials a bond is formed and I believe that is what makes FFXI what it is and why people come back. We just can't sever those bonds that have endured so much and it's what brings us back.

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            • #7
              Re: What makes FFXI different?

              That comic makes no sense.

              Though, I can not disagree with anybody that claims there's a lot of druggies in FFXI.

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              • #8
                Re: What makes FFXI different?

                Does any of Ramsoosair's work make sense?

                FFXI has some great backstory behind it, and each expansion carries with it a wonderful, classic RPG-style story you'd come to expect from Square Enix. The world rivals any other created for a fantasy game. That's what keeps me glued to it, personally.
                PSN ID - PaiPai Gamertag - PaiPaiMaster Steam ID: Pai Pai Master
                Rockman - Fairy

                WAR75/SMN75/PLD68/NIN37/THF37/SAM37/WHM41
                WIN8-1/ZM (Clear)/PM (Clear)/AM (Clear)/WotG3/ACP1
                Currently Playing:
                FINAL FANTASY XIII, Starcraft 2 Beta

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                • #9
                  Re: What makes FFXI different?

                  I'd have to say, its everything that they put out to us in here. What kepted me going orignally was to get 75 with thf and whm. Then around mid 30-40s on both jobs CoP came out. Bit interesting, but I didn't know anything to do anything about it so that was left in the closet for a long time. Just doing all the missions in order. Leaving Bastok at rank 4 to San d'Oria with a nagging feeling being called a traitor by the npcs for a strange reason. Doing Ballista. A pvp with a story to it. Just doing any and everything that's possible for my characters is what I seek out to do. And as they come out. Though shifting from sky to Dynamis, at lot of time is just spent waiting for death trap to start and wondering... whats next on my list? Heh, its the emphasis on story that really gets to me. And the crazy conversations you get with people in pick up parties, mission/quest/nm runs, linkshells of all sorts and people you kept close contact with. Which is why I couldn't stay on WoW for very long >_>; quit at 19 rogue <_<; But best reason of all, FFXI gots Mithras with tails to chase
                  Adventures of Akashimo Hakubi & Nekoai Nanashi


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                  • #10
                    Re: What makes FFXI different?

                    Originally posted by Pai Pai Master View Post
                    Does any of Ramsoosair's work make sense?
                    Possibly to him. Possibly.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What makes FFXI different?

                      Originally posted by ioshua View Post
                      EZ-Mode games like WoW, and a lot of what's on the coming curve, don't give much incentive to meet people so you really miss out on the good interaction.
                      I fail to call *requiring* me to have an alliance to finish things a good social incentive. Seeing as how things are so strictly by the rules in most encounters, it leads more to stress and pigeon-holing than pleasant social experience. I made more friends joining a linkshell than I ever did through partying.

                      My other MMO experience is limited to the much-mourned SWG and LotR:O, my one true MMO love. It's been so long and my time in SWG so relatively short compared to others that I remember much less than I would like. But I can say that despite it being easier to solo in LotR:O (though not necessarily any faster levelling, unless you're one of the super fast playing lvling types that lvl fast even on FFXI...) that game takes a good while to cap out on. It's taken nearly a month for me to go from 40 to 45 alone, and in truth you get closer to level killing the shit on your way to or as part of your quest, than from the quest itself. At least I'm not standing in one (over-camped) camp for 8 hours in a deathly silent party of people afraid to cough as if they were in some church, hitting macro buttons all night. Because that's like... so exciting~ That's more drudgery than any combat 'system' could ever make or break. I've had much more 'good social interaction' in LotR than I ever did in XI. Period. And I played XI 3 years. Been in LotR all of 4 months. (Hell, I have better social interaction on Monster Hunter...)

                      Or maybe playing on a RP server makes it slower to level as we try to story it up. And attracts more of the (usually) more mature, intelligent types I can identify with, instead of the guy-playing-a-mithra trying to hit on me and when I turn him down he says, "Don't be mean to kitties." ...I didn't know whether to laugh or cry at the sheer idiocy of that comment. Nothing against cross-gender playing. But please don't play a female and hit on me, ok? And if you do anyway, please don't be a fucking idiot. Not that I'd ever reciprocate -no matter how 'intelligent- because I find it asinine in the extreme to hit on people on MMOs, and I'm also happily taken, but that's neither here nor there.

                      Irregardless, despite *not* having to party for every quest in LotR (though there's certainly much more party quests than solo post 35, much to my dismay) I have to say that overall, my impression of the people I meet is much more positive. I have made some very close friends through partying, something I never achieved in XI. Perhaps its because so many are so busy seeing who's wearing or not wearing <insertubar!gear+1> in FFXI. Or 'schooling' you on what sub(s) you should or should not be levelling depending on what mob you may or may not be fighting. Or food you should or should not eat.

                      In fact, there's too much schooling going on in XI for me period. And then there's the economy. The fact that (nearly) nothing can be NPC'd for any decent amount of change. XI's economy rises and falls on the whim of the auction house alone, and leave no other avenue for those with little time or patience for yet *more* grinding (especially post deflation) to get a decent amount of cash. Hence having been quit these long months.

                      Maybe it's simply the type of game FFXI -and all FF's, online and off- are, but to me it lends itself too well to having to play by the rules of those who got there first. Whether or not its the best or tried and true method means little.

                      There is a magic to FFXI. I won't rob it of that. There are things I miss, but they are more in the game itself removed from the community, and sparkle in spite of it, not because of it. Things like my chocobo. Or Carbuncle. Or Zi'Tah. Places. Avatars. Music. Story. But nothing that would compel me to ever take up the game again.

                      However, games are a very subjective thing in the end. What one person loves another person hates. I don't think anyone is better or worse for preferring this game, or WoW, or EQ, or any of the other myriad games out there. Which is why I do get disheartened when people go about insulting people's 'dedication' to their game because they chose one over the other. Be happy that someone else is happy. One man's dedication is another man's over-gaming. And in the end I stick by a comment I made to someone in Bree a week back about 'endgame': "I want my game to remain a hobby. Not my second job. I don't even like my 'real' job, I don't want a second." Gaming is my hobby. It is not my life. And it doesn't pay me so I'm not taking it on as a job.

                      (Yes, I like walls of text. Yes, I still like to read these forums and pester people. :3 I do hope WotG brings lots of nice things for everyone, though. Because I like to see people happy.)
                      "If you keep me waiting much longer, it damn well better be the end of the Galaxy." ~ Kaidan

                      ~There's gonna come a day, and I can't wait to see your face...~

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                      • #12
                        Re: What makes FFXI different?

                        Originally posted by Telera View Post
                        I've had much more 'good social interaction' in LotR than I ever did in XI. Period. And I played XI 3 years. Been in LotR all of 4 months.
                        That game is only four months old, right? Plenty of time for it to go downhill, yet.


                        Originally posted by Telera View Post
                        The fact that (nearly) nothing can be NPC'd for any decent amount of change. XI's economy rises and falls on the whim of the auction house alone, and leave no other avenue for those with little time or patience for yet *more* grinding (especially post deflation) to get a decent amount of cash. Hence having been quit these long months.
                        I wonder, are those LotR NPC prices static or dynamic? If static, then if inflation takes hold, they won't look like so much money.

                        FFXI's Auction House is not evil; it's merely dynamic--AH helps to price things rationally. (Not to say AH prices are always rational, but it is the overall tendency.) It rewards smart players who willing to take risks, and can spot then adapt to changes, not those who rely on one good formula and hope it'll last them forever.

                        Example
                        Bamboo shadows sweep the stars,
                        yet not a mote of dust is stirred;
                        Moonlight pierces the depths of the pond,
                        leaving no trace in the water.

                        - Mugaku

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                        • #13
                          Re: What makes FFXI different?

                          FFXI is unique in many more ways.

                          1. It create a bond where player HAVE to interact more.
                          2. It offer a strong sense of story, doing the mission basically give good story, many quests give cutscenes that debrief you.
                          3. I never see this as a hard game, but it make reward feel better if you really works for it. Unlike WoW, the experience is basically a given ...(rest XP ....)
                          4. music is the best among all mmorpg.... You can't argue with me here.
                          5. Alot of mini-game, it isn't all just hack and slash.
                          6. TOY jobs! summoners, puppetmasters!
                          -add later-

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                          • #14
                            Re: What makes FFXI different?

                            Originally posted by IfritnoItazura View Post
                            That game is only four months old, right? Plenty of time for it to go downhill, yet. ]
                            Plenty. But I have more faith in Turbine and Codemasters than I have in SoE. All currently known updates are doing nothing to break the game. And this mentality of XI players of *wanting* to see every other MMO fall is the largest part of what makes me most annoyed. XI is not the top of the litter. It's one of many out of what you like best. But bring up the topic among any large group of players in another game and you get a large number of ex-vets of the game wishing they'd never touched it with a 10 foot pole. The only other game that gets that type of 'I wish I had the time back' reaction is SWG post nerf. And WoW to a lesser extent. But at least SWG didn't make me *afraid* to try any other MMO's out of fear of finding the same mentality that grips the largest chunk of the XI community.

                            NPC prices are static, but they have altered things here and there at updates. There has been no inflation yet. The best gear on the AH still doesn't go for more than 5 or 6 gold, which is piss easy to come by. That said, most of the best gear is Bind on Acquire anyway. The only thing on the AH worth buying are nifty looking cloaks and maybe Elven/Dwarven armors for RP purposes. There are plenty of large money sinks. Prime among them armor decay, which gets very expensive even without dying, depending on what job you play. It's expensive period post-35ish. But Guardians and Champions have it worst. Horses, Mail Fees, etc are the other large money-eaters. My b/f had to sink nearly 200 silver in one go after just one death and a long excursion into enemy territory. Gold sellers exist but can't really get the hold they had on XI because money is easier to come by, even for that nice piece of gear. There's no despairing drive to buy that gold because maybe an hour or two in a good zone will get you plenty of money. Something that can't be said of XI anymore unless you bleed gil to craft to 100, and then bleed it on HQ attempts. And then maybe make it back if some asshat doesn't undercut you. Crystals and everything that *used* to be worth farming you now need about 3-5xs more of. And it already wasn't worth the time.

                            XI is a job. Not a game. It's the Japanese mentality of grind. Grind for exp. Grind for money. Grind for gear. Grind for craft. (though its a piss annoying grind for that in LotR, too) You even grind for story to some extent. They enjoy that sort of thing. I can no longer wrap my head around it. I also can't tolerate people telling me how to play to the same level. And I'll be avoiding Japanese MMOs in the future. If you enjoy it, that's peaches. But please don't tell me I should. And I won't tell anyone what they should enjoy.

                            [quote= 1. It create a bond where player HAVE to interact more.
                            2. It offer a strong sense of story, doing the mission basically give good story, many quests give cutscenes that debrief you.
                            3. I never see this as a hard game, but it make reward feel better if you really works for it. Unlike WoW, the experience is basically a given ...(rest XP ....)
                            4. music is the best among all mmorpg.... You can't argue with me here.
                            5. Alot of mini-game, it isn't all just hack and slash.
                            6. TOY jobs! summoners, puppetmasters![/quote]

                            1. Any game with thousands of people gives interaction. You don't have to force people into alliances or parties to get it, either. Most everyone could say you make more friends by simply stopping to talk to people you meet, or joining a linkshell, than from any combat convention in FFXI. Same could be said of any MMO. Opening up and joining a clan grants friends moreso than a party.
                            2. LotR as a book has a better story. Add in what they've added to the game and it's at the least on even standing with XI. I've *never* played a FF that I enjoyed more than reading LotR. It'd be laughable to say I had.
                            3. I work my ass off for every bit of exp I get in PSU, MH, and LotR. I feel the same achievement I felt when I actually enjoyed FFXI. And you *do* have to work your ass off in LotR and PSU. MH, not so much. Rest EXP takes the place of us not having two different damned EXP bands. It burns out just about as quickly as the Empress, because of how its scaled and the exp off the mobs. 30 mins. Maybe an hour if you've been off a really long time.
                            4. The music is good in XI. But I only like certain pieces of music from *any* game, I've not seen *any* that I liked all the music across the board yet. :p
                            5. Well, it's all hit a macro, or watch TP and then hit a macro, which isn't far removed from. X, X, X on Dynasty Warriors. XD L1, X. R1, X. etc etc.
                            6. EQ, LotR, and WoW have pet jobs. So that's not that unique to anything.
                            "If you keep me waiting much longer, it damn well better be the end of the Galaxy." ~ Kaidan

                            ~There's gonna come a day, and I can't wait to see your face...~

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                            • #15
                              Re: What makes FFXI different?

                              One thing that makes FFXI different are the limit break quests. Friggin ANNOYING!

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