Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

...Musketeer.

Would be an awesome job.
A Hat to rival RDMs.

[Malacite]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

>.> whatever floats your boat (the abrevs I mean)


I already outlined the job's skill ratings and gear selection. It has access to about the same armors and shields as PLD, but lacks the traits and tools PLD has (and no higher than B+ Shield skill) to rival it.

In FFV you could dual-wield with spellblade at full power, but you're right about XI; I don't want another job getting /NIN 24/27.


As for job traits and the enfeebles... they could set the duration for enfeebling spellblades to be very low so that if you're having trouble getting it to stick, it's gonna take a good chunk of time and MP. Or have them land at half strength/duration. It's mainly for soloing anyway, since we have dedicated enfeeblers anyway.

Again about the job traits/abilities... it should gain traits to help it fight against mage-type enemies, maybe even shield the party from magic damage. Maybe give them a similar JA to Warcry/Sentinel/Rampart.

A large hate spike followed by a magic defense boost that cuts magic damage in half (could be boosted with merits/AF/relic). This is quite different from the Rampart update before anyone mentions that. Rampart just gives a stoneskin effect againt magic for 30s. This JA lowers how much damage you're taking.

I'm not going to go into full detail at the moment (mostly because I'm eager to sign in right now and hit 75 on my SAM) but it could have any number of magic-hosing traits/abilities.

It wasn't that anti-mage in FFV, but just to give it a little more variety since this is an MMO I'd like to expand on the Auto-Shell trait it had in FFV. Plus, we could really use another class that at least has the option to tank, though it would specialize in fighting enemies that cast a lot of magic rather than causing a lot of physical damage.

Um... as far as damage mitigation goes, the M.Def traits and Spellblade:Drain are all I can really think of.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

While the usefulness of an anti-mage-oriented tank is feasible, I wonder what the low level restrictions/specifications are.

Obviously it would have access to a pool of spells from multiple elements at a given level, but if it's focus is on the pesky magic users, wouldn't it be largely useless to a big group of pts?

(To play DA, there are some WSs that are modified by the strength of your Shell, rather than Protect, ie Bubble Shower from Crabs.)

I think the original focus of the job being pseudo-blood-tanking but with magic as an offense is a niche unfilled. It would probably not be good on Imps, but would totally rock the pants off of Deco Weapons in sky, and maybe even statues.

I think it might bring back some of the older camps (Like Lufaise ) if Spellblade marginally assisted the rest of the pt with DD.

Possibly PLD-esque, but with magic is an unfufilled role? Maybe.. I see it as being feasible to a certain degree, but I can't help but think that with some tweaking and rearranging, some of these ideas could be incorporated to Geomancer and we can have a Hybrid.

But it would be a mix of ninja and PLD, because what I want to see is actually a job that uses the elements as a shield, but they'd be similar in nature to Shadows..



And people would probably sub NIN to that anyway.

[DakAttack]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

The problem is that if it's blood tanking it's not going to be used as a tank. Besides, Paladins can tank melee and magic with equal ease, why would be introduce a hybrid one-handed damage dealer and tank that could only tank magic?

As a tank it needs to be on an equal level with Ninjas(if even possible) and Paladins. Unfortunately SE has concentrated so much on making Paladin even with Ninjas that they've put too much into it in my opinion. Solid damage mitigation from armor and skills would be a bit much.

It's hard to mix offense and defense.

[Armando]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

How will it mitigate damage, or, if it is not intended to be a tank, how will they have their abilities spread out (a la WAR, for example), so that they aren't just being shot in the foot?

Spellblade: Drain from /BLM sub, maybe? Also, if Spellblade: Drain worked the same as Drain enmity-wise, /BLM would prove interesting as the Mystic Knight could do damage for near-zero hate gain in the first moments of the fight.

Edit: Just realized the DRKs would throw a fit at that.

[Malacite]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

>.> actually, maybe not. Keep in mind that Bloodweapon causes additional damage along with however hard you hit for. MSK could actually be a good sub for DRK (or vise versa) if you combined Souleater + Spellblade (spellblade only works on swords and daggers too, so no worries about Kclub abuse. It would just give DRK's more opportunities to drain and melee)

Spellblade Drain and Aspir would also have lowered damage (they always did in FFV actually) so that you can't recover to full HP/MP in just a few quick swings. I'd say half weapon damage would do it, but no lower than 1/4. (Maybe 50% for drain and 25% for Aspir?)

Also, PLD does not tank heavy mage mobs just fine as you said. No body wants to blood tank against Ancient Magic but NIN. Rampart doesn't provide enough defense against a 1k+ dmg spell. Unless they give PLD some magic defense traits, this is where MSK could really shine. Yes, it would be a bit of a niche (it's not the main focus of the job, more like a side perk) application but still a useful one.

[Armando]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

>.> actually, maybe not. Keep in mind that Bloodweapon causes additional damage along with however hard you hit for.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't, actually.

[Ziero]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Bloodweapon absorbs all damage it does, the drain effect isn't added or extra dmg. And from my understanding Bloodweapon is at it's best, excluding K Club, with a low delay weapon and Souleater active. The concept is BW keeps the Drk full while a full HP Souleater makes up for the loss of Dmg from using a weaker weapon.

And I will agree Pld can't take high magic mobs as good as nins. All single target spells pummel the Pld at full strength as all of a Plds def is physical. But nins just laugh off those single target tier IV nukes and those wonderful AMs. But as many have said before, Runic for Pld could easily lvl that playing field.

Best way for a MSK to mitigate damage is to give them some natural White magic buffs (SS/Blink/Aquaveil etc) ontop of their Spellblade spells.

[Malacite]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

That's something I hadn't considered. It'd go great with their A+ Enhancing Skill, though originally I was thinking they'd have to get those abilities by subbing WHM or RDM and not having them natively.

I'd like to give them barspells to better fit the anti-mage theme, but WHM and RDM already do that.


And I'm positive the HP drained is an addition effect much like with bloody bolts. I suppose I could be wrong though (> . > I saw screen of a DRK/DRG jump the Dynamis Lord for close to 3k damage. SICK!)

[Lmnop]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

those super Dyna-jumps are due to KC (can proc on Jump, with Souleater applied to all the hits in it).

BW is worded the same as Bloody Bolts, which is what causes the confusion. However, that does not seem the case.

I'll tell you now before some DRK comes in here shooting off his/her mouth about how they're certain that it doubles their damage output: I've yet to see any formal test that points to the drain doubling their damage. I have, however, seen evidence to the contrary (namely, Mob Souleater, which I have seen firsthand and done the math on to make sure I wasn't getting hit for double damage).

AM is a joke for a PLD. 18 second casting time? If you're not bound, you're easily outrunning it. And that's assuming your support team sucks or the mob simply cannot be interrupted. High level -Ga spells still have a long casting time, but they're really not outrun-able. If you can't interrupt it, you're not only taking a ton of damage, you're losing all your defense (shadows, I mean).

MSK as an anti-mage tank is very very niche. You won't be well-liked on crabs or pugils or mandies or beetles or crawlers or dhalmels. However, these guys could make fools of Colibri. Especially if they had runic. BLM casts spell at colibri, MSK Runic's the spell mimic.

Also, let's say you exp'd exclusively off of WHM/RDM/BLM gobs. All your life. They have bomb toss, and a lot of destructive magic. 90% of the damage you take will still be physical. BLM mobs hit almost as hard as WAR mobs. Your magic tank needs to be able to tank melee too. To further drive this home -- it's easy enough to keep a Goblin Gambler silenced as soon as you can cast the spell.

In FFV you could dual-wield with spellblade at full power, but you're right about XI; I don't want another job getting /NIN 24/27.

Longest. Week. Ever.

Ok, sorry. Anyway, this is a big problem I have with MSK. It's one class where it's just glorious to dual wield. It's just such a cool concept. I loved it in 5. I would love to love it in XI, but I agree too much with your last part. The situation becomes:

-water the job down so much that it's not even interesting to me.
OR
-yet another job to join the /nin masses.

[Ziero]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

That's something I hadn't considered. It'd go great with their A+ Enhancing Skill, though originally I was thinking they'd have to get those abilities by subbing WHM or RDM and not having them natively.
I'd like to give them barspells to better fit the anti-mage theme, but WHM and RDM already do that.
And I'm positive the HP drained is an addition effect much like with bloody bolts. I suppose I could be wrong though (> . > I saw screen of a DRK/DRG jump the Dynamis Lord for close to 3k damage. SICK!)

I can assure you Bloodweapon does not add any Dmg. Those 3k numbers are cause by Souleater, which deals damage based on current HP while Bloodweapon keeps the Drk at full HP. Bloodweapon is a mirrored drain, but not an additional affect drain. When you do 100 dmg to a mob with BW active, you absorb that 100 dmg as HP, but the mob was only hurt for that initial 100 dmg. And I don't even think Bloodweapon stacks with Jump, I know it doesn't stack with Weapon Skills.

As for the 'bar' spell predicament, that's easily solved. Create a spell that stacks with the Bar spells that accomplishes the same thing. Just like Accuracy down can stack with blind, yet both achieve the same effect. This is good because it gives the MSK a new spell, lets Whm and Rdm be the only ones with Barspells, and gives players the ability to stack on more elemental resistance.

AM is a joke for a PLD. 18 second casting time? If you're not bound, you're easily outrunning it. And that's assuming your support team sucks or the mob simply cannot be interrupted. High level -Ga spells still have a long casting time, but they're really not outrun-able. If you can't interrupt it, you're not only taking a ton of damage, you're losing all your defense (shadows, I mean).

There are some mobs who fast/insta cast *everything*. So running from an AM isn't always an option. Where nins don't have to worry, a Pld would get pummeled. However these mobs more often then not hit like frieght trucks as well as casting so a tank would need physical def as well as magical def, which again Nin is best at. But this is something that needs to be balanced between Nin, Pld and any other future tank classes. Though I still say Pld should get Runic.

It's one class where it's just glorious to dual wield. It's just such a cool concept. I loved it in 5. I would love to love it in XI, but I agree too much with your last part. The situation becomes:
-water the job down so much that it's not even interesting to me.
OR
-yet another job to join the /nin masses.

The only ways I can see Dual Wield not being used by MSK is if they do any of the following:
- Nerf the dmg by half when a Swordspell is cast while dual wielding. It would still be the same dmg as you'll swing twice, but you'll build up resistance faster as well as running the risk of missing more and lowering your dmg.

- Add some MSK shields with some *great* bonuses to the job class, completely negating the desire for dual wield

- Allow access to special spells/abilities based on subs. For example, if you sub Blm you get Bio-Swordspell, sub war and you get a stronger fire Swordspell etc. Give people a reason to sub other things instead of the old standby "nothing-else-better" /nin.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Longest. Week. Ever.

I'm sorry, but, mind explaining?

[Malacite]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

@. @ I know how those huge numbers are caused thank you. I didn't explain 'cause I felt it was kind of obvious that he was doing KClub + Souleater (how else would anyone hit that high?)

It's just such a cool concept. I loved it in 5.

Same here. It's my favorite job gimmick ever, and you have no idea how disappointed I was when I finally found out what jobs were in FFXI back in I believe mid to late 2003. My original plan was to do THF/MSK for easy money and spellblade on dagger for fast spell swinging. This was not the case.

- Allow access to special spells/abilities based on subs. For example, if you sub Blm you get Bio-Swordspell, sub war and you get a stronger fire Swordspell etc. Give people a reason to sub other things instead of the old standby "nothing-else-better" /nin.

That's an interesting idea, and I think it should apply to more jobs really. The subjob system as so much potential, but it feels like a watered down version of FFT's ability/job system. There's a lot of room to mix and match, but only a few combinations prove worthwhile results.


I also think mobs need some serious tweaking. Like Lmnop pointed out, a BLM Goblin will hit just as hard as a WAR Goblin. This is ridiculous. Now before I go too far off topic (there are a LOT of issues with mobs that should be fixed) there's one other thing.

It's been said before, but here I go again; Something has to be done about Utsusemi. It's still entirely too game-breaking. Increasing Ni to 38 is one method, or they could have it's effectiveness based on Ninjutsu skill level (and really, why not?)

I'd rather not have MSK/NIN be completely pointless, but at the same time /NIN is still too good and would likely become the main sub of choice. I blame SE for supporting blink tanking way back, but no use crying over spilled milk.

[DakAttack]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

I'm sorry, but, mind explaining?

Twenty-four hours a day, twenty-seven days a week.

[Dymlos]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

I seriously doubt this would work, but since MKT would have B+ in shields, would you think /PLD would be a viable sub for MKT? Since you would have Shield Mastery for that extra TP, that extra defense could help. Hmm...