Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

[DakAttack]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

I didn't know this thread was called Proposed Builds Part 2: Red Mage.

Wait a gosh dern second...

Here's my few cents on our new topic: The Mystic Knight is not similar to Red Mages in any way. Heavy armor, one-handed blade and shield combo, weapon made of magic. There would be nothing that says Additional Effect. The Red Mage is fine the way it is, so if you want to add something be prepared to take something away.

[Armando]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Hyrist, you're missing one huge flaw with your little plan of "just fix what failed" - people invite RDMs to Refresh/Haste/Dispel/Cure/Enfeeble, not to do damage. Give RDMs Spellblade and you're looking at a either a job that can do all that and DD, which would be broken, do all that and be a second-rate DD, which puts it back at square 1, or lose its support job aspect, which leaves only BRD and COR. That's lose/lose/lose.

[Lmnop]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

I think I'll play some Devil's Advocate action.

the concept of Mystic Knight is very cool, it's true. And the mechanic of Spellblade is very different than En-spells, it's true. But Mechanic isn't the same thing as Flavor. And the flavors between the 2 aren't really that far apart.

I'm not sure I want RDM as a tank just because it'd play so similarly to PLD, though. And I don't really want RDM as another melee job (at least full time). However, it'd be nice to see it moved off the WHM position.

How does this relate to Mystic Knight? It leaves even less room for RDM to grow.

"RDM has too much stuff already" doesn't mean much if they only use Refresh, Haste, and Cure III.

[Malacite]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Maybe give COR some "duelist" love by giving them a JA(also accessible with sub) that makes the next attack on the COR parry'd, 100%.

So basically third eye?

It's hardly unique. What you are describing falls directly in line with the Sorcerer Class from FFV.

Sorcerer is Mystic Knight. Mystic Knight is the new name they gave it in the GBA remake and IMO sounds a lot better. (!Sword was changed to Spellblade)

How about doing some damn research before bashing my idea? I'm trying to adapt the job to FF XI without deviating from it's original (and only) form in FFV. The biggest problem is that in FFV you had the ATB and there was no real way to abuse spellblade unless you were a freelancer with Mystic Knight, Ranger and Ninja mastered.

This is not the case in FFXI. There are a lot more factors to be taken into account, the chief factor being balance against the other jobs especially BLM.

Though IMO BLM has been sitting as the magic damage king for too damn long. Traditionally SMN (and in FFV Mystic Knight) would outclass towards the end of those games.

While I'm not advocating making BLM obsolete, it would be nice if we got a new job that can rival it, but in DoT rather than spike damage (though the very nature of spellblade, at least as it was in FFV, allowed for massive spikes in a short period of time). SMN really should get a boost to their tier 2 and 4 nukes, but that's off topic.


Like Armando said, SE can not give RDM what I'm proposing with Mystic Knight. That would completely destroy game balance.

Being able to enchant your sword with all kinds of offensive spells and having haste, cures, refresh and other buffs/nukes? Hell no.

Mystic Knight is more akin to PLD with heavy armor, 1H swords and shields. But rather than focusing on generating a lot of hate and protecting others, it goes on the offense with spellblade and is a mage-killer with it's magic defense traits.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

"RDM has too much stuff already" doesn't mean much if they only use Refresh, Haste, and Cure III.

That's not an issue with the job, though, that's a result of party trends and any job could post similar complaints. I'm sorry, but its on RDMs to buck that trend and start their own. If you just take each and every invite and play Pink Mage for TP burns, nothing is going to change for the perception of the class.

I've stopped just taking any PT, I won't take a PT on my COR where I can't use my buffs to full potential. I'm tired of the Job x4 setups with jobs I can't give a full two buff bonuses to, I won't take the PT with PLD, DRG, BLU all together because there will be no bonuses to worthwhile buffs from those three. Nothing against those jobs, its just they don't mesh with what I need to do when you put them together. Change or drop one and get two melees I can play off of.

I'm not even asking to melee, I'm more than willing to pull, just get me a good functional setup and I'll go with whatever my role needs to be. It might not let me merit as quickly, but it'll make my experiences more fun and interesting.

RDM can do the same, they'd just rather soak in thier merits the easy way and complain about what BLU or COR can do that they can't. Tough shit, I say. The community doesn't want RDM melee because there are plenty of RDM that will do what they ask. I'll grant you my job's definition isn't as cemented, but a bit reason is because CORs haven't completely allowed it become such.

I'll grant you that SE could stand to ramp up mobs to make RDM's Enfeebles relevant again in EXP, but that aside, RDM has it pretty damn good. But as far as the melee situation goes, RDMs have made no effort to earn the melee role they want and there's nothing SE can do to the job that will make people see it as anything other than a support class.

RDMs will have to work on that themselves if they want it to change. The real problem is far too many take the easy way out and just complain.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

So basically third eye?

Basically, but it's a parry instead of an anticipation. And stacks with Third Eye. More importantly, Third Eye works differently than a Parry in some situations.

[Malacite]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Like with multi hit attacks I know. It still seems kind of pointless though. Why not give them a new JA, call it "Swashbuclking" or something silly and pirate-themed like that. Make it similar to MNK's dodge, only parry rate is increased for the duration.

No more derails! General Zod commands it!

[Dymlos]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

*Kills the RDM virus on this forum with the Ranger combo of doom! (Berserk -> Barrage -> Sidewinder -> Barrage -> Sidewinder ->Eagle Eye Shot*. )Okay there, now back to Mystic Knight.

So, should Mystic Knight have the Magic Attack Bonus trait which would increase the damage, or the Spellblade Enhancment trait to increase damage/duration/lowers chance of resistance? If they get the latter, then most likely it might have up to Lv 2 tier.

[Malacite]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Well, I was thinking of rather than a special trait just for themselves it'd be simpler to use MAB and have Enhancing Skill level heavily influence the power, duration and resist rate of Spellblade. (hence the A+ rating)

[Ziero]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

*Kills the RDM virus on this forum with the Ranger combo of doom! (Berserk -> Barrage -> Sidewinder -> Barrage -> Sidewinder ->Eagle Eye Shot*. )Okay there, now back to Mystic Knight.
So, should Mystic Knight have the Magic Attack Bonus trait which would increase the damage, or the Spellblade Enhancment trait to increase damage/duration/lowers chance of resistance? If they get the latter, then most likely it might have up to Lv 2 tier.

As mentioned before, I'd feel the direct buff to Spellblades would be better for MSK as it would be a more unique JT and not just a recycled one. And seeing as the OP wants Blm to be a workable option, allowing the Blm's natural MAB to be effective when subbed, which wouldn't be the case if MSK got it natively, the two traits would still be used by MSK. But giving MSK an outright MAB trait would cancel out the one it could feasibly recieve from BLM, weakening it as a sub.

I also feel that in addition to the unique Spellblades, a MSK should get a few BP like JAs that dealt direct dmg/status to the mob. The closest thing I could think of would be the Holy Knights from FFT, where they had instantaneous magical sword attacks. These abilities would help differentiate it from both Pld and Rdm while galvinizing it's role as a DD. It would also solve the dilema of Status Spellblades, which have the potential of being overpowered, by limiting them to a 'one chance every XX minutes' attack, as opposed to swinging till it sticks.

And just for the hell of it (aka to shut them up) they could give the Rdms tier II en-spells. As again, they're different then Swordspells so they wouldn't be stepping on each others toes.

People seem to not realize that Rdm was *never* Mystic Knight. They're two different classes with two different functions. Rdm is and always has been support while MSK is and always has been Magical Damage. Just because SE put one feeble line of spells which sort of resembles MSK's abilities doesn't mean we should overpower one class and completely ignore adding another.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

I think I understand just WTF people have been talking about (mostly cause I just played Sword Mage in FFV and FF6)..

How would that translate to MSK, though? Would their damage be comparable to a WAR with a 1h Axe, only with spell damage? I see this proposed build as being very feasible for DD, but there would need to be direct benefits to outweigh the fact that everyone and their mob would just sub nin for double the pleasure.

Of course, the way this job looks, if it subs anything other than NIN past level 65, you're looking at a dead MSK.

My observations are this: this job can potentially deal a huge amount of damage, and with the heavy armor, potentially tank.

How will it mitigate damage, or, if it is not intended to be a tank, how will they have their abilities spread out (a la WAR, for example), so that they aren't just being shot in the foot?

A lvl 75 MSK/BLM with a bunch of MAB gear (oh and wtf, not giving the mob TP, lol...) sounds orgasm inducing, but how are you projecting that fit in with the game and such?

I pretty much see this as a Front-Line-DoT-BLM that can take a decent amount of hits, but if you ask DRKs, it's not entirely too fun to steal all the hate and then get walloped in the face while you don't have any DEF. >_>

Is this a WAR-type tank where it does damage and makes the mob pissed at it? Because I see that totally going that way. But if I have a tank, once again I'll state, that I'd like them to be able to feasibly mitigate damage (PLDs self-cure, NINs reduce/avoid damage altogether).

[DakAttack]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

The Paladin and Ninja pretty much killed blood tanking. If the Mystic Knight is supposed to tank it needs something more than just a shield.

We could give them a B- or C+ grade in any weapon with a blade, since Attack and Accuracy might not offer much in the equation anyways, and to appease the blade part of Spellblade.

I'm not sure how a spell could target either the main or off-hand weapon, but personally I'd rather not see it target off-hand weapons. When SE fixes two-handed weapons you can spellblade that for damage.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

I'd like a MAIN HAND ONRY Equation. I understand the usefulness of /NIN, but it seems like more of a crutch than anything.

I'm all for PLD/NIN, but GDI, please stick to having a shield as well. -_-

And BLU/NIN is fine, but hey, having two mediocre swords =/= Uber.

MSK/NIN could be very feasible if they were restricted to only having it on one weapon. I'd hate to see another job watered down.

[Dymlos]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

I'm still for the MKT/BLM (I prefer MKT over MSK) THAN MKT/NIN. It feels like 90% of melee jobs must have /NIN.

[DakAttack]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

MSK feels like Musketeer.