Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

[Armando]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Yeah, I posted it on page 2. Here it is again.

Normal magic damage formula:
[SDMG + (INTdiff * TMult)] * MAB/MDB

Where INTd is the difference between the caster and target's INT; TMult is the tier multiplier (x1 for tier I and II, x1.5 for tier III, x2 for AM if I remember right) and SDMG is the spell's base damage. Now we just add weapon DMG here...

[SDMG + WDMG + (INTdiff * TMult)] * MAB/MDB

And now your weapon's DMG is added to every spell's base damage. You could throw fSTR in there as well if you wanted to, but 1 point in INT would be at least 4 times better than 1 point in STR.

However, Attack should stay out of the equation. Not only does it make absolutely no sense for something to be magic and melee at the same time (under this game's definition of what's magic and melee, of course), having to break through a mob's Defense AND MDB/Magic Resistance would be awful. Even if you included Attack, /BLM would be better than /WAR because it's a permanent 20+% improvement to damage. Plus, I don't want to see yet another job that depends on Haubergeon/Scorp Harness, BRD/COR, and Meat/Sushi. On the other hand there's only one job dedicated to magic damage and it's not even that popular.

[Dymlos]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Honestly with that formula, it would be rather interesting subbing /BLM with Mystic Knight. But knowing the community it will be /NIN onry! Considering people hate to experiment and are obsessed with Utsi. Besides dual-wield and Utsusemi, /NIN will offer nothing for Mystic Knight.

[Malacite]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Well, nothing much other than fast HP/MP recovery with drain and aspir blades and some added tanking ability.


Otherwise yes, go go /BLM fighter job! ^_^ Uniqueness ftw

lus, I don't want to see yet another job that depends on Haubergeon/Scorp Harness, BRD/COR, and Meat/Sushi.

QFT

[Tokitoki]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

The base spell damage for Spell blades would then have to be substantially lower than normal spells then. Otherwise it could prove overpowering.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

I can't help but think if you gave RDM a high-hate spike spell and a JA that boosts their parry similar to counterstance, you already have your tank and mystic knight. RDM/NIN is a very effective tank, and if they fixed VIT and Defense formulas RDM/WAR and RDM/PLD can be too.

Just have Runic be a level 35 PLD ability that works with swords(and greatswords), that "shadows" out a spell targeted on the user(even aoe) and have it not stack with utsusemi.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

We do need some kind of job that gets people away from thier dependancy on BRD/COR/RDM in general. I don't think adding another support class that does what those jobs do will actually change anything because just as few players will pick up that new role.

Its not really even the expense of COR itself, but the responsiblity and demands placed on it and jobs like RDM and BRD that turn people away. Same thing with adding a new healer. We tried that with BLU, actually. Its a fine main healer when given the effort, it can definately do that job... just try to get someone to do it, though.

I really do think a tool-based chemist would actually allieviate dependancy on Refresh, plenty of mobs exist where dispel isn't needed. Which leaves us with Haste, the other support addiction of the game. RDM and BRD are craved for this magic as well. WHM and SMN have it, too, but it doesn't help them compete so well. Give a stronger Haste to a job without Refresh and Dispel, I say.

[Hyrist]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

I'm going to have to go with Legal Fish with this one.

It'd take less work to provide RDM with better means of using his enspells than to give another class a pumped up version of RDM's enspells.

Hold on a moment while I grab something from my earlier posts on a different forums...

Red Mage Adjustments:

The spell requirement for Refresh is reduced from 41 to 37 (This alone will automatically fix BLM and WHM invites.)

Fencer's Mastery- Trait
Increases the accuracy and attack of en-spells.

We get 3 of these traits at 30, 50, and 65 respectively. Each trait raises en-spell damage by 5 as well as lowers the resist rate by a static 5%

(Alternately you could give RDMs "EnFeeze, EnBurst, etc" Which cost more, and deal tripple the normal enspell damage, however, cost an additional 3MP per each hit made.)

Runic - Job Ability 70 RDM
Cancels the next spell cast in area of effect and absorbs spent MP.
Straight out of the FFVI textbook. Duration 30 seconds (wears off when a spell is cast) 5 minute recast.


Spells:
Break- lvl 58 RDM
Petrifies a single target.

The catch: Break only keeps the enemy petrified for a certain amount of damage dealt to the target, dependent on enfeebling skill.

Plague - lvl 68 RDM 70 BLM
Reduces the HP, MP, and TP of a target.

This doesn't have to be by much I'd say even a 5 mp/hp/tp damage per Tic would be a worthwhile start. Have it build up like the elemental line debuffs with enfeebling skill.

The "Fencer's Mastery" alone will more than make up for any damage lacking in Enspell, and would make "Mystic Knight" kinda worthless. Let alone access to the other enfeebles that might actually get parties to "Gasp" Let us debuff!

I'm getting tired of playing ghetto whm with convert...

[Dymlos]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

oO Uh don't you think RDM has enough stuff as it is!? With those adjustments why don't we just kill off every class in the game and give them all to RDM. RDM doesn't need Runic, Paladin does. When was the last time you saw RDMs go meleeing with his meleeing buddies? Never, well not in higher levels they don't. Even if you were to give them higher tier En-spells they wouldn't be meleeing because people don't want them to melee.

Yes, RDM may be jack-of-all trades but with that list Hyrist, it makes RDM obscenely broken.

[Tokitoki]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Oh yes reducing Refresh to 37 totally kills RDM invites!

The point was more the Fencing Mastery ability over the other adjustments.

[Malacite]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Seriously, RDM has enough tools as it is spellwise. And as we've explained before, higher tier enspells aren't the same thing (enspells themselves aren't the same thing).

Just because it's easier isn't a good enough excuse not to add a new and unique take on magic and swordplay.

And if any job should get Plague it's DRK.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

You mean lower the level of Refresh to 37? Uh... and I also have not interest in RDM being a DD(or at least being pushed into that direction), just a tank which is can already be.

If I was SE and I felt like being generous to RDM... (and I guess WHM)

I'd increase Haste and Refresh duration to 4 minutes(80 ticks on Refresh).

Furthermore, Refresh would be split into two spells: Refresh I and Refresh II. They do not stack, Refresh II replaces Refresh I.

Refresh I
Lv. 23
20 MP
1/tick Refresh (80 MP)

Refresh II (Same as our current Refresh)
Lv. 41
40 MP
3/tick Refresh (240 MP)
1/tick

That would cover their enhancing end, for enfeebling:

Virus (fire based) - Prevents HP, MP, and TP recovery. Player version would be weakened and function a tad bit differently. It would weaken any type of regen, refresh, or regain. Long casting time, 20ish MP cost. Level 40ish.

Plague (fire based) - DoTs MP and TP(but not HP). Long casting time, 40ish MP cost. Level 60ish.

Break (earth based) - A long duration stun. Hyrist's idea that it breaks with damage is not a bad idea. In addition, let it have very powerful spike hate attached to it. This is what a RDM needs most to become a tank. Short cast(but not instant), 30-40ish MP cost. All monsters in the game build a slight resistance to it if the spell is casted on them several times in a very short time, this is to prevent chainspell + Break. Level 50ish.

Enspells don't add hate, I don't see how boosting them would help with tanking(though the DoT would be nice). The bet way to help Enspells is to add more enhancing skill and add more direct damage increase(like Apoc Nigh's earring). They don't need to be enhanced naturally.

With Break, they would just need the extra umph into tanking.

Rather than the traits mentioned above, I think a JA would work best. Let it even be below level 37, allowing /RDM to be a potent tanking sub.

"Parry Stance"
Level 35
Duration: 2:30
Recast: 5:00

The JA would double the chance of Parrying(making Parry Skill still very important) and an additional small boost on top of that.



Just give Runic to PLD which would be accessible with sub.

Maybe give COR some "duelist" love by giving them a JA(also accessible with sub) that makes the next attack on the COR parry'd, 100%.



Yes, it might be too much... but if I was able to give RDM a lot, I would give every single other job a lot as well.

[Tokitoki]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

If they got a parry enhancing ability at 35 I would level RDM just to use it to skill up parry for my THF <.<

[Hyrist]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

oO Uh don't you think RDM has enough stuff as it is!? With those adjustments why don't we just kill off every class in the game and give them all to RDM. RDM doesn't need Runic, Paladin does. When was the last time you saw RDMs go meleeing with his meleeing buddies? Never, well not in higher levels they don't. Even if you were to give them higher tier En-spells they wouldn't be meleeing because people don't want them to melee.

Yes, RDM may be jack-of-all trades but with that list Hyrist, it makes RDM obscenely broken.

With the exception of the Tier II/III meritable Spells, RDM has had nothing to gain since it's gotten Refresh, spell or ability wise. Currently it's entire function has been reduced down to the following:

RDM/drk: For Stun spamming on Dynamis Lord and certain HNMs
RDM/BLM: for Endgame Hate control, more time is spent on Sleep and Silence than any of the new Debuffs.
Rdm/whm: for Main healing in parties.

Unless you're purposefully HNM hunting, the Meritable spells are not worth the MP spent casting, and you won't get a good opportunity to use them through most of your Meripo experience unless you static.

The Refresh level adjustment was to put Whm and Blm back on board with the hefty burn parties. Having RDM competing with WHM and BLM again would only be considered a bad thing in the eyes of Red Mages alone. And although I would personally miss the consistent invites whenever I wish, seeing my Fiance and my Brother both get more regular 74+ invites would be worth losing RDM's privileged position, which it's held too long anyways.

Also I'd debate the issue on wither the higher damaging enspells coupled with the other Debuffs would effect the 'role' of rdms in parties. Damage is the second biggest complaint on RDM Melee, the first being of course the RDM's focus on his duties. With Refresh Being 37, a RDM's primary duties are halved, allowing RDM to focus once again on other aspects, such as being able to take over the entire haste cycle on their own, or contributing to damage in one way or another, be it Nuking which is already fine, or Meleeing which only needs a minor adjustment.

Not to mention we don't even know how the new jobs/job adjustments will change the gaming dynamic, adding these in on top of whatever else is coming might give that extra push to finally level out party invites across the board.

About the Additional Debuffs:

DRK in no way should get plague. They already have enough enhansements to their job to tide them over. They already also have a method to reducing Enemy TP: Absorb TP.

Plague would finally give RDM's and BLM's a means to combat the enemy TP spamming on a Variety of mobs, or at least slow it down a bit. A RDM's Superior enfeebling skill, if programmed right could have a dominating effect on the debuffs, or even making it RDM exclusive would make sure that when the mob needs to be debuffed, RDM is there in the party/event.

Just because it's easier isn't a good enough excuse not to add a new and unique take on magic and swordplay.

It's hardly unique. What you are describing falls directly in line with the Sorcerer Class from FFV. Red Mage already borrows a good number of traits once held by Sorcerer and Time Mage both, there should be no reason to rehash a concept already half-borrowed by another class: Just fix the one already in production.

I'd rather see a Chemist, Geomancer, Dancer, etc. and have the "Adjustments" to RDM give a bit more option to it's role choices.

While I like the idea in creating an alternative means of dealing "Magical Damage" to the monster, I don't believe that Mystic Knight is the answer. It's too closely related to things we already have that can be adjusted or just added in. ( the "Aincent En-spells" section above could easily be converted over to completely magical damage.)

I fully don't expect my suggestions to happen, they were posted in a non-serious thread. But they could be used as an argument against Mystic Knight.

Personally I'd like to see "Onion Knight" come out as a job, just for notoriety.


Anyways, the Fish said it best. We've got enough 1h Sword jobs. Now if we had a job primarily Greatsword, that would make more sense, even though DRK and PLD partially cover that angle, it still wouldn't be over-loading the weapon type.

Personally, I've seen enough of Swords, Daggers, and 1h Axes in this game. I'd like to see some more Scythes (Yes I said it.) DAMAGE Staffs, Polearms, and Great Swords.

All of this of course is spectualtion, so let's not take it too seriously though. Even though I wish RDM would have more role variety (Not just Melee, but more emphasis on enfeebling as well.) I'm not gonna quit the game, or the job, when it doesn't happen.

Might not last too long Meriting on RDM though.


Edit: I like LF's idea on the putting RDM in a more active tanking role though.

Maybe some sort of way of making Enspells stack Enmity, or giving new ones that do would be a way to accomplish that. A RDM tank's biggest issue is hate generation, giving Enspells hate would solve that issue pretty quickily.

Also, thanks LF for making a better stress on not just RDM DD. I'm not trying to push RDM into a damage dealing god, I'm just trying to open up it's versatility a bit more than it is now I'd be happy if I could tank as a RDM.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Again with the RDM Wish List.

Wrong thread, over here, guys.

And for the upteenth time, Enspell and Spellblade are not the same thing. Enspell is a physical hit followed by a tiny elemental effect. With Spellblade the sword's physical damage is removed and the blade becomes the spell itself.

That's very different.

As for Parrying, COR has A+ and RDM has and E. Any kind of parrying ability should either go to COR, THF, NIN or SAM. I'd certainly say RDM deserves an upgrade in Parrying Rating since they're dubbed "Duelists" but its doesn't make sense to give a parry ability to a job low in its skill than another that specializes in it.

[Hyrist]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

And for the upteenth time, Enspell and Spellblade are not the same thing. Enspell is a physical hit followed by a tiny elemental effect. With Spellblade the sword's physical damage is removed and the blade becomes the spell itself.

No, it's not.

Again, I'll reiterate that that does is tie magical damage into Physical Accuracy- Exactily what RDM's en-spells do, but suck at.

Just give RDM a higher tiered enspell that substitutes physical damage for magical instead of making an additional effect, peg on a little extra hate to it, and you'd have combined everything we've described thus far, with the exception of inflicting status effect with physical attacks, something that Blue Mage already covers with his spells.

There's no need to make a "Mystic Knight" over it.

Most of what's being talked about sounds alot like FFX-2's version of Warrior which in was only partially practical. Warrior covers "Break Tactics", Blue Mage covers Status effects tied into Physical Attacks which take MP and Rdm makes a failed attempt of merging physical attack with Magical Damage.

Just fix what failed - is anyone else catching on how this "Mystic Knight" is just a clutter of half-hashed ideas stolen from current consepts?

It was a good effort, but I'd say screw the sword/shield combo, make the abilities either element effected by day/terrain, or stock items held in inventory and NOT mp dependent. Tack on some generalized support skills and abilities/traits useful as a subjob. Attach the appropriate-but-lesser-used weapon class and call it Geomancer or Chemist.

The only "Sword" job I think will happen now is something equivalent of "Squire" or "Onion Knight" Everything else has been attempted or half-attempted in one shape or form.