Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

[Ziero]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Honestly, I like the idea of using magic to change your melee dmg to magic dmg dot, but I think the job would need a bit more then that to be successful. While thinking of my own concept for Mystic Knight I came up with an idea that was sort of a combination of a Drg's Jump and Smns Bloodpacts. The basic concept went like this:

At XX lvl the MSK would get a new Job Ability, an ability to gain access to special one hit physical attacks based on a single timer. They could use one of many of these different types of strikes, which they would gain more as they lvled, whne the timer for the initial JA came up. (ala Blood Pacts).

As the MSK lvled higher, they would gain another JA, on it's own timer, that allowed something similar. But instead of the attacks being physical, they'd be magic based. And as they lvled, they'd gain access to even more of these attacks in their menu, but could only use one at a time.

And as they got even higher, 37+ so it becomes something only they could do, they would get a third JA that allowed them to do attacks that were a mix of Magic and Physical damage and effect. These would contain some of their strongest attacks, but would have the longest timer.

So in the end a MST could use one Physical Attack, then Magical attack, then a Mixed attack and have three different timers for each one. On top of that, they'd have their unique spell list combining some whm based self buffs (no cure or refresh) with their 'sword magics' which I was going to make as simple tiered en-spells. But honestly, I think mixing your idea of pure magic dmg weapons with my JA based attacks would work much better as a unique DD class.

As for Runic, that should be Pld JA. Plds have little to no magic defense as is, all their abilities focus more on physical defense. But a third eye-like JA that could absorb single target offensive spells cast on the pld and change it to restored MP would be awesome and simple to do.

[Malacite]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Like I said before, Runic really should have been one of PLD's category 2 JA's. SE did say they have plans to adjust the merit system again (probably around WotG's release) so they could still get it.

Though I'd rather PLD just learn it at some point, preferably no later than 50. I'm also hoping for a new set of AF for each job that's actually practical but that's for another thread.

Honestly, I like the idea of using magic to change your melee dmg to magic dmg dot, but I think the job would need a bit more then that to be successful.

You really think so? I think it would be fine with just a few magic defense traits, to make it somewhat opposite of PLD. We don't have an anti-mage tank yet, and that's what this job could be; it takes down othermagic users (similar to DRK) while using it's own unique brand of spells and melee.

This way we'd have a cool DD job that can also act as a tank against mobs with nasty magic while at the same time offering some slightly weaker utility spells (Spellblade: Slow, etc)


The enfeebling spellblades definately need to be weaker or not last as long as their counterparts to keep it balanced with dedicated enfeebling jobs. I'm not sure how some spells such as spellblade: Flash would work though in terms of enmity gain... you wouldn't be doing any physical damage, but you would be constantly hitting the mob with flash for the duration of the spell.


Also, do you guys really think that 3 minutes is too long for one effect? It seems about just right to me, as it's same as blood pact buffs and most other spells.

Infact, I think only Protect and Shell last 5+ minutes (I could be wrong here). There's also room for other interesting spells like Spellblade: Plague, but with a different twist; Maybe it could drain mob TP and give it to you but deal no damage to the mob (or just whittle it down rather than draining)


This would give the job a HUGE and unique application for end game. Having a few MSK handy to inhibit mob TP gain (sorry Penance Monks >- >) would be freaking sweet.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

I'm hijacking your thread.

I'm bored, so I'll show my "builds". To me the best ideal set of three would be Chemist/Medic, something similar to Dancer, and Geomancer. Support/Healer, Support, and Tank/Support/DD. As you can see, a lot of support. I've already detailed "Medic" in a "Chemist" thread by the same author.


Dancer(name can be anything really)

Something that fill the role BRD takes. BRD has become an unchallenged part of meriting.

Dancer would have "Singing Skill" and "Dancing Skill", which would stack much like BRD. Their "songs" would still have the same limit as BRD and COR, two. Their Dancing Skill would be "A+", making their "songs" stronger than BRDs. However, they wouldn't have instruments to boost songs, so the gap might be close. And additionly, their lullaby would only use Singing Skill.

For the sake of helping out old markets, their primary weapon would be Katana. They would have a B weapon rank in it. Maybe some decent H2H skill too. They would wear mostly like armor, but have access to leather sets.

A Dancer's song list would be rather limited compared to BRD. They would lack Requim, Ballad, Paeon, "Resistance" songs, Carol, Prelude, Etudes, and Virelai.

This would leave Minuet, Madrigal, Minne, Mambo, Lullaby, Threnody, March, Elegy, Finale, and Mazuka. For the sake of shaping Dancer's focus, they woud have access to a Minuet 5 at level 75(this would give around 62-65 Attack). This makes most sense, since a Minuet is infact a dance. To keep things symmetrical, let's give them a Minne 5 at level 72 or 73. For balancing sakes, let's have them gain Lullaby(s) and Finale at higher levels than a BRD would.

Their new songs would be mostly offensive.

Six songs that would take the place of Requim. A Burn/Drown/Shock/etc song... which would be restricted by the same elemental weakness system as their Black Magic counterpart(but they would remain songs, allowing them to stack with the Black Magic versions). They would lower stats just like Black Magic and their DoT would be based on the Dancer's CHR.

Let's also give them a second tier of the Threnody songs. These would have a built in bonus to Skillchains, like +5%(depending on CHR) that would be visible as it would sometimes cause them to break the damage cap.

As for new buffing songs, how about buffing pets. Single-target songs... Accuracy, Magic Accuracy, Attack, Evasion, and Defense up... that would work on Automatons, Charmed pets, Wyverns, and Avatars.

Now the biggest restriction of Dancer would be that they can only use their buffing songs while engaged. If they disengage the songs do not grant benefits(but stay on).

As for job abilities...

2hr - Uh... Can't really copy BRD... so... how about something sort of out of left field and: Grants party members Magic Shield for 30 seconds.

Level 20 - A Charm-like ability that only works on Beastmen. The charmed monster itself would work sort of like a Fellow(very little to no control). Recast: 1 minute, duration: based on CHR.

Level 50 - Cancels all songs currently on the Dancer(must be at least two ability to work) and makes the next hit a critical and 100% hit. Recast: 5 minutes

Traits...

Level 20/40/60: Resist Charm

Level 30/50: Magic Defense Bonus



Geomancer would be quite simple.

I'm not sure if Geomancy should or shouldn't be a new type of magic. If I just gave them Elemental Magic this would let /BLM(and /RDM and I guess /DRK) be an interesting sub as they would be able to use those nukes without much of a penalty, leaving the potential for possible strategies(like hate grabbers). Well, it doesn't matter too much I guess.

Their weapons would be very limited: Staff, Bow, and Club. What they would equip would be limited to "wooden" only. B, B-, and A-. A new Club type would be released with them "Baton". These are higher damage clubs that rival maces/hammers in damage, but are wooden. Maybe they are a good of HP and Enmity too. Armor would be very similar to MNKs, no leather, access to cloth and some lighter armor. I don't think giving them access to "eastern" armor would be necessary, but it wouldn't be a terrible idea.

Geomancer spells would require the use of bells unless under specific conditions.

A plain "Bell" is crafted by a Goldsmith. This bell stacks to 99 and is useable. When used, the bell consumes the "dominate" energy of the area and becomes a rare/ex elemental bell(that also stack to 99). There are six elemental bells, and it is these bells that are required for spell casting.

Each area is alligned with three to four elements. This is their "weathers" + other elements based on the area is made up. Spells of the elements alligned with the area won't require bells to cast. Some examples:

Ifrit's Cauldron: Fire, Water, Earth
Valkurm Dunes: Earth, Water, Wind, Fire
Qufim Island: Thunder, Ice, Water
Caedarva Mire: Thunder, Water, Ice

As many areas are near oceans or rain, earth based, and have windy weather... Water, Earth, and Wind would be very common to have for free, which is good, since that would probably be their most common spells.

Geomancer would have three tiers/types of spells.

Type 1: Defensive (Gain at 1st level to 15th level), low recast time(10 to 30 seconds)
Water: Aquaveil
Earth: Stoneskin
Wind: Blink
Fire: Fire Spikes
Ice: Ice Spikes
Thunder: Thunder Spikes

Stoneskin would be the main method of tanking, as it would scale in level quite generously. Stoneskin is based on MND and the last three are based on INT. After level 50, Blink changes from 2 shadows to 3. This is sort of random and based on MND. Fire Spikes generates the most damage to make up for the lack of status effect. Unlike black magic spikes, all three can stack with each other.

Type 2: AoE Buff. (All gained at level 45)
Gives a "Elemental" bonus to party members. This bonus is very similar to Gorgets and Elemental Staves(and stacks with them). They do not stack with each other and have a 2 minute duration. Based on the element:
Magic Potency+5%
Magic Accuracy+5
Weapon Skill Damage(based on WS elemental property)+5%
Avatar Perp Rate-1
Magic Resistance vs +10-30 (based on MND)

Type 3: Nuking. (Gain at level 15 to 55)
In order learned: Ice -> Wind -> Earth -> Thunder -> Water -> Fire.
They get a bit stronger as their level goes up, but the gap is pretty small. Without elemental staves or other such bonuses, Ice would hit for 30-50 damage and Fire would hit for 80-100 damage. They can very potent for hate gain. When MB'd they forgo the normal damage boost and simply are multipled by 2(after calculating MAB and potency). Recast: 30 seconds.

[DakAttack]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

I actually like your bell idea now, but it seems a little cumbersome.

[Malacite]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

@. @ I thought BBQ had a thread for this sort of thing? Let's not de-rail this thread please (not that I don't like your ideas, because I do)


For the sake of argument though, I do want to contest one thing; Yes it's annoying that BRD has a pretty well uncontested slot in merits. However, I'd rather see a synergy between bards and dancers in the same party rather than having them oppose each other.

If you want to go by tradition, Dancers use whips for their main weapons and for instruments SE could easily give them some kind of mini percussion instrument or bells that they can click with their hands (marracas anyone?)

They also focused heavily on debuffing while having a couple of buffs themselves, so in that respect they're opposite of bards but still function in the same manner.



That's all I have to say on that (for this thread anyway) so in the mean time I'm going to continue hoping to see Spellblade in WotG, or failing that the next expansion @. @;

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

A plain "Bell" is crafted by a Goldsmith. This bell stacks to 99 and is useable. When used, the bell consumes the "dominate" energy of the area and becomes a rare/ex elemental bell(that also stack to 99). There are six elemental bells, and it is these bells that are required for spell casting.

Rare items don't stack.

Not that your Geomancer build isn't awesome, with a few exceptions, like all the Spikes effects available at the same level: obviously, any Geomancer worth his time would go out of his way to get the Bells for Frost Spikes, or possibly even Shock Spikes, over the puny Blaze Spikes.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

For the sake of argument though, I do want to contest one thing; Yes it's annoying that BRD has a pretty well uncontested slot in merits. However, I'd rather see a synergy between bards and dancers in the same party rather than having them oppose each other.

The thing about LF's concept of Dancer - which is totally off-the-mark to start with - is that it only pretends to balance itself against BRD and COR, but its pretty clear LF has no idea where both job's talents already are.

BRD is hand's down your best overall melee buffer. COR isn't shabby here, but disadvantaged in that they're reliant on job presence to make a good mix of buffs. The good news for COR is that, unlike BRD, they don't end up rolling the same buffs over and over ad nausium. This is something SE needs to resolve with BRD. SE just hasn't offered BRDs compelling reasons not to spam thier songs.

A good reason why is, well, look what SE gave COR. Buffs based on Job Traits, BRD still wins out on Attack, Accuracy and Evasion buffs and has Haste exclusively, but COR has Store TP, Subtle Blow, Accuracy Bonus (Prelude and Minuet in one buff) Double Attack, Critical Hit rate, Pet Attack/Accuracy/M Att/M. Acc, and Magic Attack, Magic Defense and Magic Accuracy buffs. Oh and and EXP buff, there's our gimmick buff.

So COR has comprabable melee buffs to BRD (provided the jobs are there), some unique ones and the has a strong set of mage buffs. CORs were built to shine with mages like BRDs were built to shine with melee. The sooner people learn that, the better.

COR's pet buffs are underexplored, its hard to get good numbers on them and there is very little data on them. But SMNs literally spooge when I do Beast Roll for them, so they must be seeing improvments there. BSTs also seem to like it. So we already have the pet job buffer.

So we have a Buffer strong with Melee, another strong with mages and then we have RDM for the all-around endurance functions it has. I think the market on buffing is all but covered. If we're going to do another support class, it needs to be along the lines of Chemist and balancing that against WHM.

I'd rather see Dancer as it truely was in the other games or merged with Geomancer a la Mog. They're no reason to make it another support class unless they can be TOTALLY different from RDM, BRD and COR. There's already a degree of overlap between them, but they're fairly specialized otherwise.

And really, SE has promised us new spells for the expansion. Its a given that COR would get new rolls based on these new jobs almost right away. What SE does with RDM and BRD, I have no clue, they've pretty much proven with ToA they have no really good new ideas for them.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Thinking back now, I don't think the incarnation of Dancer I wrote above should have access to Elegy. I'm also thinking of letting them be restricted from having Horde Lullaby(instead of their lullabies) being weaker. In fact I'm certain of it.

Further commenting "Dancer", their "Dancing" wouldn't actually be some boggy 70's dance. I'm thinking a very graceful gesture and some pretty graphics(like all-things-FFXI).

but its pretty clear LF has no idea where both job's talents already are.

You of all people telling me I'm misinformed about the game, what a riot.

This incarnation of Dancer is to take the role of BRD in some situations, because they honestly unrivaled(especially in merit). To really do this would to have a job based on songs and a viable or even more popular granter of Minuet, Madrigal, and March.

BRD would still be more effective in plenty of situations, but it would be neck and neck in overall tier of power, unlike COR vs BRD, which the latter is vastly superior most endurance/exp situations(for both melee and mages) because of stronger Refresh. I would be wary inviting a COR to a manaburn. I'd rather kill with less and get more exp. I can't say the same for BRD or RDM.

The way I see it above: Dancer would be the better melee buffer, but, despite Charm, wouldn't be the effective crowd control and they have no mage buffing ability aside from a second tier of Threnody. Their 2hr would suit them well, making their melee party and themselves(standing in the frontline) immune to many dangerous situations that normally prevent melees from attacking.

The gameplay of two would be different enough to make things okay. You'd wand a BRD for his very powerful crowd control ability(especially in places like Einherjar), unique Elegy that stacks with slow, and more all-around buffing ability(especially in Assault/Salvage or with a Relic Horn). Dancer would be superior at weakening a monster to an element, boosting SC damage, buffing melee, and have slightly more DoT capability than Bard. Dancer would be better meleers too, not that it would matter much outside exp.

Rare items don't stack.

Not that your Geomancer build isn't awesome, with a few exceptions, like all the Spikes effects available at the same level: obviously, any Geomancer worth his time would go out of his way to get the Bells for Frost Spikes, or possibly even Shock Spikes, over the puny Blaze Spikes.

Rare/ex is just a habit. I meant simply Exclusive.

Well, the idea was to not limit the uses of Thunder, Ice, and Fire with each other. And this incarnation of Fire Spikes would deal more damage than others to make up for the lack of status effects.



I've noticed Geomancer is not complete:

Job Ability:

2hr - Spells are boosted(not only in accuracy, but potency, like Stoneskin health) and all become free(Despite area).

15 - An ability sort of like Elemental Seal. It only works with "Nuking". Nukes will dispel buffs of the same element. Berserk being Fire for example. Recast: 10:00

50 - An ability that allows the Geomancer to ignore day/weather penalties(but not bonuses). Very high hate gain. Recast: 5:00. Duration: 1:00

Job Traits

20/40/60 - Resist Break

40 - Auto-Regen



And about Runic. I think it would work better as a PLD ability. Something to give a hand to bringing back blood tanking. Aside from fixing Def/Vit formulas, PLD would need something to make up for /NIN's great ability to negate magic damage. Something like "Runic" as an ability or spell would provide that. Something that doesn't stack with shadows and must be used with a sword and shield. It negates any spell targeted at the PLD, including AoE spells.

[Ziero]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Stuff

First off, there's an entire thread for new job discussions already. You don't have to hijack this one, you could just post there. It's what the OP should have done from the beginning, and will do with his remaining job concepts.

Secondly, you made a Brd with a barely different song list and a Nin/Blm who has to run around the world to get spells, but it's ok because they get stoneskin! New job ideas aren't your forte huh?

[Lmnop]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

I'd play a nin/blm who has to run around the world to get his spells any day... (not so different from the BLU method). Especially if it were a tank. >.>

"Hey, let's make a job that's basically a Ranger lite mixed with some nifty Bard-esque buffs."

[Ziero]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

I'd play a nin/blm who has to run around the world to get his spells any day... (not so different from the BLU method). Especially if it were a tank. >.>
"Hey, let's make a job that's basically a Ranger lite mixed with some nifty Bard-esque buffs."

Cor's only similarities to Rng is the fact that they shoot stuff. Cor is Gambler more then any other job.

Just sayin the idea isn't the most original imo.

[Armando]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Ziero, you can dumb down almost any job's description to the point that it resembles another. And when you already have eighteen jobs, you can't exactly expect uniqueness. At this point most new job concepts would be hybrid or an existing job with a twist simply because there's no niche left to fill.

Blood tank? Check. Blink/Evasion tank? Check. Melee DD? By the buckets! Magic DD? Check. Healer? Check. Ranged attack DD? Check. Hybrid mage? Check. Pet jobs? Check. Support/Buff jobs? Check.

By the way...

Cor's only similarities to Rng is the fact that they shoot stuff. Cor is Gambler more then any other job.

Mind telling me what else a RNG does? It's convenient to say its only similarity is that they both shoot stuff, when that's just about everything RNG does outside of being used for Shadowbind. Saying COR is a gambler doesn't mean much. COR being a gambler is just the flavor of the job. But when it comes down to it, it's still a job that shoots things and uses MP-less AoE buffs akin to BRD.

Also, I don't find Geomancer's bell system cumbersome at all. Buy a lot of bells, bring them to Beaucedine and turn them into a lot of ice bells, repeat for a few more elements and you're good to go for several hours of spell spamming.

Edit: By the way, ANY JOB THAT CAN LOWER THE MOB'S ELEMENTAL RESISTANCE AND IS NOT NAMED BRD OR NIN HAS ALREADY VALIDATED ITS EXISTENCE. :3

[Malacite]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Dancer was never a support class, it's always been a debuffer.


Now enough of the derailment > _ <

[DakAttack]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Also, I don't find Geomancer's bell system cumbersome at all. Buy a lot of bells, bring them to Beaucedine and turn them into a lot of ice bells, repeat for a few more elements and you're good to go for several hours of spell spamming.

Sarcasm?

Besides, the Geomancer is supposed to access the elements in their immediate vicinity. That's what made them so interesting.

[Ziero]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Ziero, you can dumb down almost any job's description to the point that it resembles another. And when you already have eighteen jobs, you can't exactly expect uniqueness. At this point most new job concepts would be hybrid or an existing job with a twist simply because there's no niche left to fill.
Blood tank? Check. Blink/Evasion tank? Check. Melee DD? By the buckets! Magic DD? Check. Healer? Check. Ranged attack DD? Check. Hybrid mage? Check. Pet jobs? Check. Support/Buff jobs? Check.
By the way...Mind telling me what else a RNG does? It's convenient to say its only similarity is that they both shoot stuff, when that's just about everything RNG does outside of being used for Shadowbind. Saying COR is a gambler doesn't mean much. COR being a gambler is just the flavor of the job. But when it comes down to it, it's still a job that shoots things and uses MP-less AoE buffs akin to BRD.
Also, I don't find Geomancer's bell system cumbersome at all. Buy a lot of bells, bring them to Beaucedine and turn them into a lot of ice bells, repeat for a few more elements and you're good to go for several hours of spell spamming.

First off, this isn't the thread to discuss this. There *is* a thread to discuss general new job concepts. This one was supposed to be for Mystic Knight only, and even then it should have been added to the other thread.

Secondly, there are *tons* of ways to make a job unique. Especially one that has always been so as Geo is. But the only thing that makes this concept any different from Nin/Rdm is that after buying an item, you have to travel around the world to make them useful. *Every* time you buy the stack of items, you would need to do this. And seeing as how other people *have* thought up unique and functional Geo builds, this one is just isn't that special. It's mainly a recycled spell list and concept.

Cor and Rng only have one thing in common, and that's Ranged WS. Other jobs can use guns too. Rng doesn't need to do anything but shoot stuff, where as Cor is supposed to do something completely different. What makes them unique isn't their *function* but their abilities, that 'flavor' if you will. Cor's abilities are different then Brd, War's abilities are unique to War but this idea is Nin/Rdm with some AoE buffs. Self sustaining buffs, check, item based magic casting, check.

Though again, I must restate that this is not the topic for any of this discussion. So I won't be derailing this topic any more. But if you would like to discuss Geo, Dancer, Chemist and other jobs, then it should be done in the other topic.