Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

[Legal Fish]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Please don't make a thread for each one of your "builds". It's going to get annoying.


Also, the concept is pretty dumb in my eyes, I won't even touch this. I will point out though: "THIS GAME HAS ENOUGH SWORD USERS". We don't need another.

PLD RDM and BLU all use Swords are their primary weapons.

COR, THF, WAR, and even DRK are not far behind them.

[Malacite]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Okay, rather than AoE I think the 2 hour should actually just take the spell up a tier.


For example, if you cast Spellblade:Fire, it would become Fire2. Yeah, this could be potentially broken for the highest tier spells but that's why it's a 2 hour. If DRK's can get away with Souleater + Blood Weapon + Kraken club then this isn't so bad.


My other thought was to have spellblade affected by the same magic damage nerf on NMs as regular spells. That way they'd be able to cause quite a bit of spike damage in the beginning but would quickly see diminishing returns if they kept it up.

Oh I forgot to mention that there would obviously be no -ga spells, and no magic bursting. However, I thought it might be cool if when using say Fire and then using a WS like Red Lotus blade it would do a lot of fire damage.

This would make the elemental WS actually usable... too bad sword is rather limited in that department though, and dagger only has wind. It'd also be annoying from a programming point of view and probably best if spellblade simply had zero effect on weaponskills.


The biggest problem of all is BLM however. The job more or less wields the same devastation in their blades, but at the same time should not eclipse BLM and make it obsolete... ugh, the joys of balancing.


And point taken LF (about the multi thread thing) I'll put my ideas for the other 2 in BBQ's job idea thread.

[Lmnop]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Please don't make a thread for each one of your "builds". It's going to get annoying.

I hate to be the snide asshole (I'm trying to be the to-the-point asshole) but I really don't think you're qualified to say that. Don't worry, he'll only have one more of these threads and he's through. It's not gonna be something we'll have to do deal with for the next 3 months -- we'll leave that to other people.

As for the idea: I think the spells could be rather potent but I'd change some things. First off, TP: any damaging spell gives mobs a flat 10 tp, I believe. Sword swings typically give 9-9.5. Just giving a flat 10 would be ok. I wouldn't it to be double tp or something, as right now that's sorta the disadvantage of BLU DD -- their multi-spells give rediculous TP fast.

I'd like to see all the spells being one use. I.e. you cast it, you swing once, you're back to normal melee. That would also make the 2 hour, as malacite wrote it, A OK. Since you'd be able to give all 5 monks one draining punch, and then you'd have to give them another buff while your recast on drain sword is working.

All told, another sword user would suck. I would really like to see this job in the game, but it just doesn't seem right where the game is now.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

A - You should be beat to death
B - Congratulations, you created the RDM without the ability to heal or support.

Quoted. For. Truth.

Why not give all this to Red Mage, and actually make THEM the Mystic Knights they were supposed to be, rather than adding yet ANOTHER job to steal thier thunder?

IF YOU GAVE THIS TO RED MAGE, than there's some pretty interesting stuff here as far as what few groundbreaking ideas you've had, which is, essentially, designed only for stealing the thunder of Red Mage's Enspells, which, if they are so bad, could easily be made better.

(Seriously, all he put here are varitations on Enspells: this job fails at everything except beating out Red Mage as ANOTHER Melee Mage.)

If Mystic Knight were to appear on its own, with what should be improvements on Red Mages Enspells, instead of actually GIVING THEM TO RED MAGE . . . by all the pimp hats in the world, somebody's going to pay.

As IMPROVEMENTS TO RED MAGE, though, there's some nifty stuff here. I would personally love to fiddle around with that Endrain spell, and especially Enaspir as well.

But, please. Just give Redmages Elemental Enspell II's, and maybe some of the stuff mentioned here, and be on your way.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Why not give all this to Red Mage, and actually make THEM the Mystic Knights they were supposed to be, rather than adding yet ANOTHER job to steal thier thunder?

See? Another misguided impression of what RDM is "supposed" to be.

Red Mage is the in-between of BLM and WHM, with a sword. When SE realized the mistake in doing that in the online realm, when they realized RDMs definition was too rigid for party play, they gave them Refresh and Dispel and then an A+ in Enfeebling.

That's it.

Suffering from Avesta Syndrome (or delusions thereof) is not the job's definition.

[Mhurron]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

See? Another misguided impression of what RDM is "supposed" to be.
Red Mage is the in-between of BLM and WHM, with a sword. When SE realized the mistake in doing that in the online realm, when they realized RDMs definition was too rigid for party play, they gave them Refresh and Dispel and then an A+ in Enfeebling.
That's it.
Suffering from Avesta Syndrome (or delusions thereof) is not the job's definition.

SE's definition is too rigid, or does making RDM what they said it was steal some of your COR thunder?

These fighter-mages can utilize both black and white magic, as well as the arts of the sword.

The OP presents nothing new. What he described *IS A RDM.* Except he presents it with that little jab (that I'm sure you loved) that RDM tries to imitate them weakly.

[Ziero]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Quoted. For. Truth.
Why not give all this to Red Mage, and actually make THEM the Mystic Knights they were supposed to be, rather than adding yet ANOTHER job to steal thier thunder?
IF YOU GAVE THIS TO RED MAGE, than there's some pretty interesting stuff here as far as what few groundbreaking ideas you've had, which is, essentially, designed only for stealing the thunder of Red Mage's Enspells, which, if they are so bad, could easily be made better.
(Seriously, all he put here are varitations on Enspells: this job fails at everything except beating out Red Mage as ANOTHER Melee Mage.)
If Mystic Knight were to appear on its own, with what should be improvements on Red Mages Enspells, instead of actually GIVING THEM TO RED MAGE . . . by all the pimp hats in the world, somebody's going to pay.
As IMPROVEMENTS TO RED MAGE, though, there's some nifty stuff here. I would personally love to fiddle around with that Endrain spell, and especially Enaspir as well.
But, please. Just give Redmages Elemental Enspell II's, and maybe some of the stuff mentioned here, and be on your way.

...rdms are all about en-spells? Since when? In this game en-spells are a gimmick and that's about it. Rdm were never Mystic Knights, Rdm were always a mix of Black and White Magic with the ability to use swords. And as BBQ put it, it just didn't work as well in this game as it did in the past. So SE beefed up their support and if anything should be given to Rdm it should focus on that aspect of their job. They're great additions to *every* party, TP burn, Mana Burn, old school set ups, HNMs and Endgame, Duos, Trios, special missions, etc etc etc so it's not like they're lacking in desireability. If they get anything new, it would be just for the sake of getting something new and not really change their role too much.

Mystic Knights were DDs, Rdms were support, they should be the same way in this game.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

These fighter-mages can utilize both black and white magic, as well as the arts of the sword.

From Playonline:

Warrior

Specializing in the arts of battle, warriors act as shields, protecting their comrades from the enemy attacks.

Know any warriors like that?

Ninja

Strict training in the forbidden arts of the Far East have transformed these fighters into cold, hard killing machines.

I'm not gonna say NINs can't DD, but it takes a lot time for them to tap thier DD potential and they ended up being tanks.

Don't even get me started on what BST and PUP were "intended" to be. The intention chances with each interview. Either we were meant to PT or meant to solo, but SE can't decide.

The original intent behind the job isn't always what the job ends up being accepted for. Players don't see RDM as a soloist or damage dealer, they see it as a support class. COR is seen as a support class that can supply damage via slug shot.

I have no problems with COR's definition as a support class, I can play full support if and when needed.

[Raydeus]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

I propose:

1) Upping RDM Sword and Dagger skill to A-
2) Changing Tier II enfs to scroll and adding Mystic Knight Sword/Dagger spells (Read tier II Enspells) for Group II merits.
3) Delete that abhorrent Wise set for RDM from the game and replace it with Mystic Knight AF-like Armor.


And it's not that I want RDM to be even more awesome or anything like that, eh? I just want to help Malachite to become a happy Elvaan.

I'm such a nice guy.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

I propose:

1) Upping RDM Sword and Dagger skill to A-
2) Changing Tier II enfs to scroll and adding Mystic Knight Sword/Dagger spells (Read tier II Enspells) for Group II merits.
3) Delete that abhorrent Wise set for RDM from the game and replace it with Mystic Knight AF-like Armor.


And it's not that I want RDM to be even more awesome or anything like that, eh? I just want to help Malachite to become a happy Elvaan.

I'm such a nice guy.

Don't forget Enaspir!

[Raydeus]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Well of course.

Endark - Added effect: MP drain.

Edit >

Endark II > Added effect: HP Drain Woo hoo.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Would Enlight be HP Drain, then?

EDIT: then again, Enlight is already available as an enchantment on some weapons, so I guess that's a no . . .

Maybe Tier II Enspalls could provide additional effects.

[Mhurron]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

From Playonline:
Warrior
Specializing in the arts of battle, warriors act as shields, protecting their comrades from the enemy attacks.
Know any warriors like that?

Yes, I have partied at various levels through the game with WAR tanks.

Ninja
Strict training in the forbidden arts of the Far East have transformed these fighters into cold, hard killing machines.
I'm not gonna say NINs can't DD, but it takes a lot time for them to tap thier DD potential and they ended up being tanks.

ToAU, NIN, like most other jobs that get fast invites, a DD.

But this isn't players finding that WAR's are better at straight DD, or players finding NIN can tank if the player can count. It is ADDING RDM ALL OVER AGAIN, except this time removing what little they get invited for now, so that the mostly dense player base can let them swing a sword.

[Raydeus]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

Enlight would be stronger dmg than Endark to compensate the lack of added effect, kinda like.

(At 300 Enhancing)

-Endark: Added dmg +20, +HP/MP drain (Inefective against Undead)
-Enlight: Added dmg +40 (60 on undead); Enlight II: +70 dmg (110 on undead).

Mwahaha I'm just asking for so many "Nerf RDM" threads to be spawned.

[Armando]

Re: Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight

In all fairness, the OP's proposed Spellblade model is not physical damage with pitiful elemental damage as a side effect, but rather turning melee damage into purely magical damage, which has very different implications. I can't say I'm wild about the idea of doing it, but at least recognize that it's not entirely the same as a RDM.

In theory it's more like an odd combination of a BLM and a BLU, and would be the only job so far that actually damages the enemy with pure magic damage (i.e. not the physical variety BLU uses) over time, instead of in big hate spikes like BLM does. The only thing that comes close to that approach is NIN spamming the Ni wheel, but that has a limited level range in which it's both useable and useful, and even then few ninjas will go /BLM or /RDM for an all-out casting approach. A Mystic Knight would have to gear for Acc to land swings, but would rely on INT, MAB, and -Elemental Resistance for damage like a BLM would.