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**Omgwtfbbqkitten** · 07-16-2007, 10:59 PM

Re: Proposed Builds Part 1: Chemist

Kinda have a thread for this, might be best for this to be merged there.

I personally just don't like the tag "Chemist" (sounds nerdy) or "Medic" (I think of M.A.S.H. or WWII when I hear this) nor do I enjoy the idea that this would primarily be a healer class. Make it Alchemist, make it something outcast from the craft and traditional magic.

I see it being more of a Tool-based job rather than item-based. The problem with a temporary-item is that it probably would all go up in smoke the moment you had to zone. It would probably also bring up a memory issue within the system. Zones like Al'Zahbi or Assault areas are rigged to add temp items, no other zones really do.

Making the job tool-based and making the Alchemist abilities function like spells is probably the best solution. This also gets around the medicated status ailment.

I don't disagree with the skill and combat skills in question, but Alchemists being more backline than frontline, I'd give them C ratings for the most part, maybe C+ for gun.

Level 1 We'll go with your two hour idea, but for all alchemy spells.

Level 5, we'll also go with Mix. But to get them started learning thier "spells" we'll give them their first trait "Medicine " Curative magic and status removal.

Alchemists learn by experimentation, so thier first two tiers of curative magic and status cure could come from this trait. Using the mix command and various tools to experiement, they could "learn" the spell after a specific mixture of is successful. From that point on, tools and a small amount of MP are used to make the spells work without the use of Mix.

But Mix can, in time, be used to make offensive alchmey in a similar way. The first offensive alchemy trait could be granted at level 10. Offensive alchemy could only be learned in a battle situation.

At level 15, to help Alchmists find tools outside of purchasing them, they could learn the "Draw" command. Kinda like how characters in FFVIII did Draw, an Alchemist could extract tools from thier enemies in varying quantities once every three minutes.

From there, add an enfeebling Alchemy job trait and various tiers of Medicine, Offensive alchemy and such along the way.

**Legal Fish** · 07-17-2007, 12:41 AM

Re: Proposed Builds Part 1: Chemist

Ugh, I find spending more than a derail on concepts like these a complete waste, but I'll bite. I'll tell you my opinion.

I'll point out the flaws since that's the easier part:

Chemist shouldn't use guns, I'll go into three reasons why:

-It's somewhat of a waste. When new jobs are added, they should try to revive as many crafting markets as possible. Corsair/Ranger are meant to boost the bullet market. Though Corsair should be more popular than it is.

-That skill is a bit too high. It's like Corsair all over again. We just got that job. What most people want out of Chemist is a healer/support, not another DD/support like Corsair was(and SMN should be). Chemist will probably be busy healing people and won't work like COR because they don't just lay down a buff then fire shots.

-INVENTORY DEATH. Chemist would probably be the #1 users of inventory in the game, they really don't need to carry bullets to make it worse. That's just evil.

About using Medicine directly: I find the concept broken. In many, many ways. This will be more brutal than why I think they shouldn't use guns:

1. Medicine are not timed to be balanced compared to each other. In fact they aren't balanced to be used as spells/abilities. You are leaving a lot to chance by letting unrelated timers decide how fast a job uses his "spells".

2. I don't see you mention anything about level limitations... that's very bad. A level 1 Chemist would be able to use a Vile Elixir+1?

3. Basing the job the "medicated" status is also a very bad idea. It's used to balanced the use of certain medicines.

4. Considering the above... gil = power for Chemist? That's pretty lame in my opinion. Judging from the restrictions you can be a WHM with infinite MP if you are rich enough.

Those two stick out in my mind as dangerous flaws. I think you got the right idea, but the execution is very poor.

I personally just don't like the tag "Chemist" (sounds nerdy) or "Medic" (I think of M.A.S.H. or WWII when I hear this) nor do I enjoy the idea that this would primarily be a healer class. Make it Alchemist, make it something outcast from the craft and traditional magic.

This makes my brain hurt. You realize Alchemy is just another name for science right? Which is accepted more than magic in Bastok and Aht Urhgan? And again, you can already be an alchemist and many of the alchemist NPCs in-game have no real combat ability. Why oh why would SE add a job with the same name as a craft... that's just asking for confusion.

To be fair, I guess I'd have to post a version that I would find more acceptable and I will after this one. I'll take your basic formula and put it through a process that makes it less likely to be broken.

**Legal Fish** · 07-17-2007, 02:15 AM

Re: Proposed Builds Part 1: Chemist

HP: C+
MP: -

STR: C+
VIT: B-
DEX: B-
AGI: C+
INT: B
MND: E
CHR: D-

Combat Skills:

Doesn't really matter. Maybe some very weak gun skill to keep it in flavor with Bastok. Club would be a good idea to pick as their main weapon which they would have a B-ish skill to(with Prudence Wand being equipable). Being able to equip swords isn't really needed as there are so many jobs that can already. Daggers are good idea though. Throwing skill could be fun sort of...

"Medicine Skill" is added and unique to Medic. This decides the accuracy of offensive medicines and the chances of success with "Mix".

Armor Selection:

Mostly mage stuff. INT would be their main stat. Probably identical armor selection with WHM.

Job Traits: (Going for the complete collection of Resist Traits here, comparable to BST and Killer effects).

Lv. 10 - "Resist Poison"

Lv. 20 - "Resist Paralyze"

Lv. 30 - "First-Aid" : Occasionally lowers the using time and reuse timer of "Treat".

Lv. 40 - "Resist Blind"

Lv. 50 - "Resist Virus"

Lv. 60 - "First-Aid II"

Lv. 60 - "Resist Sleep"

Lv. 70 - "Resist Break"

Job Abilities: (Pardon the names if they are poor)

Lv. 1 - "Intensive Care" - 2:00:00 - Ignore the recast timer of Treat, Inject, Tincture, and Mix. Chance of "Overdose" is lowered greatly.

Lv. 1 - "Treat" - ? - Use a vial on a party member. Recast timer is based on the item used. [Very simple: Treat leads into a window of known medicines, click on the one you have in your inventory or otherwise you will simply get an error]

Lv. 10 - "Inject" - ? - Use a syringe on a target. Recast timer is based on item used. [Ditto. Accuracy of the negative effects are based on Medicine Skill and INT]

Lv. 20 - "Tincture" - 1:00 - Use a capsule on a party member. [Ditto]

Lv. 40 - "Mix" - :05 - Combines two or more medicines to boost an effect or create a new effect. Risk of overdosing the target. [Works very much like COR's Double-Up. Use Mix first which acts exactly like "Treat". Once Mix is completed, an icon appears on the Medic's status bar. This will stay with them until they use Treat, Inject, or Tincture. They can continue to use Mix to add more combinations. There is a chance of "Busting" like COR based on INT and skill. This can happen if the combination is too great(not just size, but skill).

Lv. 50 - "Vaccine" - 10:00 - Enhance the effects of party member's "Resist Traits". Duration: 3 minutes. [This basically amplifies, but doesn't add, the effects of Resist traits found from job traits, armor, food, or spells. The increase is great, but not game broken].

When a target becomes Overdose, they get a version of "Medicated" that only applies to Medic's job abilities for 30-50 seconds. When a Medic "busts" on a Mix, the recast timer is set to 1:00 despite what they were making.

The Medicine:

Vials for Treat.
Syringe(or sometimes unique names like: Tranquilizer) for Inject.
Capsules for Tincture.

All of the above come from a version of status effect/HP/MP recovery/etc already in the game. An Alchemical and Culinary synth changes them into "Medic consumable" form.

Light Crystals for Vials
Dark Crystals for Syringe
Ice Crystals for Capsules

Example:

Potion Vial
Level 1
Recast Timer: 8 Seconds
HP Recovered: 20

Alchemy Synth: Skill 20
Items: Potion, something, something
Result: x33, HQ1: x66, HQ2-3: x99

Using HQ Potions/materials will lower the skill level needed to synth, making them easier to HQ / easier not to break.

The weakness of Medic would be recast timers. While they will beat other mages in endurance, they won't be able to use "Cures" as often. Their cures will likely be a little bit weaker than WHM cures.

Now Potion, Hi-Potion, and X-Potion would become Potion Vial, Hi-Potion Vial, and X-Potion Vial. The amount cured and how long their recast is would be based on whatever is balanced best.

Ethers would follow a very similar order, also relying on "Treat". Ether would give instant MP, a new concept since most of the game relies on it slowly rising with "Refresh".

Status effect cures would also be added in Treat, but with very low recast timers.

Add an Elixir Vial which would have a pretty long recast timer, and that shows all Treat is capable of.

With Mix, Medics will be able to turn their "Cures" and "MP Cures" into something stronger. They can even combine both Potions and Ethers to heal HP and MP at the same time(much like Elixirs would). It would also be possible to make "AoE Powders" to cure multiple people combining certain meds.

The recast timer of Treat should never go above 35-40 seconds, even with the strongest of Potions/Ethers.

Capsules would be "buffs". This would include Regen(Milk based), Refresh(Juice based), Stat boosts(Strength/Dexterity/etc Potion based), and even a unique Regain(Incarus Wing based). They would last 5 minutes. Regain would be very popular among melee who don't want to feed monsters TP, but can't rely on it too much. (at 1/tick, it would take the entire 5 minutes to gain 100 TP).

The strongest Refresh capsule would probably be 2/tick(with a weaker one being 1/tick), but with Mix(that would be risky until the higher levels) it would be possible to reach 3/tick. Perhaps a stronger version of Regain could be accessible as well, but would be risky even at higher levels.

I also see "Phoenix Downs" being capsule type items. Being Raise I.

Finally, syringe would probably be a very valued part of the job. Paralyze, Sleep, Silence, Defense Down(Vitriol), Blind, and Dispel. And of course, Poison. I imagine Poison being the main way for Medics to add to DoT. With higher level Poisons, they should be able to access higher DoT. The highest tier should be from Viper Potion(indirectly comes from Khimaira) which could be 25-30/tick poison.

Well, that was interesting. Hopefully you'll consider this "constructive criticism".

**Ziero** · 07-17-2007, 05:14 AM

Re: Proposed Builds Part 1: Chemist

Wheeeee, 'nother job topic. As BBQ suggested, it would be best to use the topic already created. But since this is here, might as well post my idea too.

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/662314-post4.html

Or re-post, that is. And if you don't wanna use that topic for fear of 'necro-poster!' cries, then I'll just bump the topic myself with my Time Mage idea.

**DakAttack** · 07-17-2007, 06:16 AM

Re: Proposed Builds Part 1: Chemist

I always imagined the Chemist would/could be a main healer, as well as a buffer with some more unique buffs. Since you're not casting spells, or singing songs, or rolling dice, you're opening a door for new and different ways to increase performance.

I always thought it would be neat to toss a DD a TP potion to help him out when he's lagging behind in the SC race, then hit the enemy with a potion to weaken it to a certain SC and MB. Shame people don't SC much anymore past 50.

**hongman** · 07-17-2007, 06:46 AM

Re: Proposed Builds Part 1: Chemist

I wonder if any of these new jobs will take off at all, if they dont fit into the current manaburn/tp burn mould...?

**Kailea** · 07-17-2007, 06:52 AM

Re: Proposed Builds Part 1: Chemist

lol I hope they don't fit, so people will stop Mana/TP burn all the time

I loved the good old days when you had a battle plan and followed it, like last night I was voke partner for a NIN and THF, I have not done that in a very long time.

Geomancer
Dancer
Chemist

go go go

**Aksannyi** · 07-17-2007, 06:54 AM

Re: Proposed Builds Part 1: Chemist

Originally posted by hongman View Post

I wonder if any of these new jobs will take off at all, if they dont fit into the current manaburn/tp burn mould...?

Of course they will, if nothing else people will level them to subjob level, especially if they are viable subjobs.

Of course that might just mean I have to grind up yet another job for my RDM. :/

**hongman** · 07-17-2007, 07:08 AM

Re: Proposed Builds Part 1: Chemist

Originally posted by Aksannyi View Post

Of course that might just mean I have to grind up yet another job for my RDM. :/

Dont get me started. 3 more lvls and GOODBYE DARK KNIGHT!

My last sub for RDM for now, pending new jobs. Currently no interest in /BLU or /BRD or anything else, becuase I wont use them.

**Feba** · 07-17-2007, 07:15 AM

Re: Proposed Builds Part 1: Chemist

Anatomical Knowledge

Kinky!

**Shadowneko** · 07-17-2007, 08:05 AM

Re: Proposed Builds Part 1: Chemist

also if you want my 2 cents on chemist...well in previous games Mix could be used to create destructive potions/items. So it's healer/DD/support...

I'd also rather give chemist stuff similar to Ninja tools and have Mix combine the tools. Potions need to stay about where they are...but adding things like poison pots, ETC to mix would be great fun for weird debuffs!

**Omgwtfbbqkitten** · 07-17-2007, 08:45 AM

Re: Proposed Builds Part 1: Chemist

I'm just of the opinion that if you're going to create a new backline support job, they should be a little different.

Meaning, some degree of offensive ability, because playing a dedicated healer is boring to the majority of players. Worse is having to pay to play one, so if we're going to pay for the job, lets give it a bit more bang for its buck.

Alchemist could prove to be an excellent sub for WHM, allowing them greater MP longevity if they were able to pull out the equivelant of a Cure III via tools. It could also prove to be a great solo sub.

Chemist (FFT) and Alchemist (FFX-2) used guns, too. Another class that uses guns would actually serve to strengthen the bullet market further in the game. It would also grant the opportunity for status bullets to finally be added to the game.

CORs have longed for status bullets since its nigh impossible to find a mage that actually enfeebles these days, such bullets would be ideal for COR and Al/Chemist. SE could stand to open up spartan bullets to other classes, too. They're wasted on RNG, but a COR with a Peacemaker or a Alchemist with a low delay gun could do them justice.

**Malacite** · 07-17-2007, 09:51 AM

Re: Proposed Builds Part 1: Chemist

I was going for a hybrid of FFT and FFV. It was FFT that the job finally got access to guns, and really there's no problem with that at all, but I'll agree that C+ is probably the right skill cap (though B- is only what, a few points more?) so as not to step on COR's toes.

I like the tools idea BBQ, it's certainly a unique take on the job and offers balance. At the same time though I wanted to keep in with the traditional theme of the job, combining existing items in the game to form new ones.

Chemist is the perfect excuse for us to finally get Phoenix Downs. Mix's power could also be limited by level too. That is to say, depending on your level you can only combine certain items.

And I don't really see what's wrong with the gil = power situation. While I agree that it's aggrivating (I don't have a whole lot of cash myself) NIN COR BST and RNG aren't too different especially NIN (NIN/BLM is seriously effing strong if you have the cash for it)

The other thing was to give the medicine market a major boost. While I doubt SE would do this, it would be great if they'd change potions to stack to 99 and create a new recipe for them to allow multiple potions per synth, or simply change the existing ones.

Of course, this would be a nightmare of programming for SE but I think it would be worth it in the end.

**Malacite** · 07-17-2007, 09:55 AM

Re: Proposed Builds Part 1: Chemist

Originally posted by Feba View Post

Kinky!

LOL > _ < not quite what I meant by that

like I said the names aren't final, but the general concept of that one is that because they have knowledge of how the body functions and what can be done to treat various ailments so they know how to immunize themselves.

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Proposed Builds Part 1: Chemist

Proposed Builds Part 1: Chemist

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