What Einherjar should of been

[WishMaster3K]

Re: What Einherjar should of been

stuff

In before BBQ.

For the record, RDM can take more hits than BRD being as how we natively get Stoneskin, Phalanx and Blink, in addition to using Earth/Terra Staffs.

A COR's sleep is more situational/targeted for a group that controls pulls, while BRD/RDM/BLM sleeping is more of a "oh shyt, human error, we need some mob control emergency etc" stuff.

And since we are all human and make mistakes, and things happen (ie, a mob moves mid-pull and links/aggros 3 friends) I'd rather have the guarantee that the other jobs offer.

Or shit, have all options available to me. It's not as if a COR and a RDM are both seeking and the alliance goes, "well, we can't take BOTH! We have to choose one. Darn."

Edit:
Ok, maybe not >_> Darn you, BBQ.

[Necropolis]

Re: What Einherjar should of been

In before BBQ.

For the record, RDM can take more hits than BRD being as how we natively get Stoneskin, Phalanx and Blink, in addition to using Earth/Terra Staffs.

A COR's sleep is more situational/targeted for a group that controls pulls, while BRD/RDM/BLM sleeping is more of a "oh shyt, human error, we need some mob control emergency etc" stuff.

And since we are all human and make mistakes, and things happen (ie, a mob moves mid-pull and links/aggros 3 friends) I'd rather have the guarantee that the other jobs offer.

Or shit, have all options available to me. It's not as if a COR and a RDM are both seeking and the alliance goes, "well, we can't take BOTH! We have to choose one. Darn."

Edit:
Ok, maybe not >_> Darn you, BBQ.

Very true that RDMs can take more hits, and are masters at enfeebling. I was leaving them out of the loop primarly because from my experiences with Einherjar the rdm is refreshing, Phalanx2ing the tanks, hasting as the whm cure bombs 9depending on mobs) and the such that crowd control on top is a bit much.

[Amele]

Re: What Einherjar should of been

I don't see much info on the 2nd and 3rd wings of Einherjar, just the first wing and its three areas, so I'm not convinced its the same strategy as you get closer to the bottom. Hell, we don't even know why Odin Prime is all the way down there other than he's the lord of the underworld and SE usually sticks him at the bottom of some dungeon.

reports from shells that have made the second wing is that it's more of the same as first wing except 1) always two waves of trash mobs, and 2) different NM's (but the same general concept as these nm's)

There's no telling what might be different down there until somone does it a lot. God, I hope this isn't how SMNs have to earn him, if at all.

it is unlikely that this will be a prime fight, since it's not a quest (to this point, all avatars have been the result of quests.) it could of course be a pre-req for the quest, but that would be a little extreme of SE.

Maybe they are "auto-loss" because we've not figured out the trick to the marid and other NMs yet. I don't think chests give you riddles for no reason.

the chests don't give you riddles. there's no riddles. there's a statement (sometimes) when you kill the mob, or let it despawn, not from the chests. this is akin to assuming that what the trigger points in sea tell you when they check them has some bearing on beating AV (in before ebon panels).

have you even fought the marid? below 25% he goes into probiscus shower spam, which is an aoe heal that will -literally- out heal the amount of damage that any reasonable 36 member group can do (unless you're seriously proposing that we should be expected to have more than a handful of kclub darks along 'just in case') he's broken, plain and simple. there's nothing in these zones to lock anything with. it's all been killed, it's all been left up.

People used to think other instances were impossible, but then they figured them out and now things like Dynamis are a borderline cakewalk.
Give it time, it has only been a month.

this is partially correct; a month from the start of dynamis the basic mechanics of the city zones were reasonably understood and the means to progress through the area (and start farming were understood). nyzul (the 'other' random instance) was very well understood after one month, with the exception of specific drop details and the optimal strategies for certain goal conditions (which have since been pretty much completely figured out).

a month into einherjar and all we know is that you can lose it and it doesn't matter which chamber you enter all the odds are the same. (it may affect drops, it may just be an excuse to make you do 9 runs instead of 3 to get at valgrind.)

At any rate, if you need light-based sleep, you need light-based sleepers. BRD isn't exactly the best catch all as the duration of thier light based sleep is weaker. Having a few BLU and COR holding some mobs to the side while melee take care of the mobs slept by the BRDs could save a considerable amount of time and MP.

having additional melee in those slots while I use one extra bard to hold the same number of mobs that it would take six cors to hold will save much more time. you only have 30 minutes and single target anything isn't enough until the very end.

Light shot may be only once a minute, but that's also about as long or even less time than the mob may actually stay sleeping. That's a minute the mob isn't wailing on you or someone else, forcing MP to be used to get people cured.
Keep in mind ToA is BLU and COR's back yard, bring as many as is reasonable and give them a try here.

oh we definitely bring them. they're not useful for crowd control, end of story.

I remember seeing an BG interview with SE by Bercus - full of himself like always - was complaining about how sea had nothing good and blah, blah blah.
Now it seems a lot of endgame LSes are about sea. It took TIME to see what sea had to offer, to get the torques and weapons to drop, took time to do limbus to see what was there.

there's alot of endgame LSes about sea because alot of people are finally making there. (after two nerfs of the missions) sea was completely mapped out (Except for killing JoL) within about two months of the first shells starting to do it seriously. - and a long time ago, it -was- crap. the only thing any sea tier dropped 100% were the virtue weapons.

and people knew limbus was worthwhile after one run and coming out with a success and coins (since about 2/3rds of the areas in limbus are defeatable with a straight forward and intuitive strategy.) there was no time taking here beyond finding working strategies for ultima and omega, neither of which have abilities that simply preclude you from defeating them in time.

People always forget that with new areas comes pioneering and exploring before adjustments are ever made. I don't even think there have been many adjustments for sea beyond the "wall of justice" fiasco. So there was lots of stuff there that didn't turn up after one or even three months of being there.

there were a ton of sea related adjustments.
1) upped drop rate on pop items (significantly)
2) JoL was ninja fixed at least twice
3) AV was ninja fixed at least twice
4) AV was officially fixed once, to prevent what had been one of the only (not obviously bugged) methods of defeating him.
5) the missions to reach sea have been adjusted downward more than once, to facilitate getting people -to sea- which is why there's more interest now.

Sky was the same way, so was Dynamis. So was Salvage, we're slowly moving from "crappy/no drops" to knowing where those drops can possibly be obtained.
Takes time. No endgame-ish content is going to be laid bare within a month's time. Why do people forget this right after they learn it?

sky was done within two months except for beating kirin (similar to sea) people were hitting up beaucidine glacier within the first month on multiple servers. sea slowed people down because the pops weren't 100% but progress was made very quickly.

salvage was fairly well understood six months ago, there's just a few questions left and all of them are in one zone. salvage isn't as confusing as alot of people seem to think it was: it's just complex so it's easy to misconstrue how much is actually understood at this point in time. (do you do salvage?)

for einherjar to be like any of these, we'd have multiple ls's ready to enter wing III, at least one LS working on strats to beat Odin, and several shells developing reliable ways to farm wing I for therion ichor. given that none of these are the case, I disagree with the assertion that this event is at all similar, and (unlike salvage) isn't harder because it's challenging but because it's basically a massive 36 person gear-check with a couple /randoms for giggles thrown in.

people are complaining about einherjar because everything we're learning points to one thing: it's unbalanced to the point of being broken.