Things that should be improved about FFXI...

[nickofearth]

Re: Things that should be improved about FFXI...

I'd prefer they fix the broken dual wield vs 2 handed mechanics first. >.>

I do like the chaning of colored eyes and hair though. ^^

[Murphie]

Re: Things that should be improved about FFXI...

It wasn't at the time, but it is now.

edit: I should have quoted. But maybe not, since I am so tired of this particular discussion.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Things that should be improved about FFXI...

There isn't much room left to go on graphics and realism at this point, if that isn't obvious to people now, I have to feel sorry for those people. Any leap we take beyond PS3 is going to be marginal and unimpressive. Its going to be things like framerate and diversifying models and the size of zones that matters beyond the graphics.

But then, look what handheld is owning the world right now. The graphics are just a cut above what N64 could do and even then its mostly just used for 2D games, which are still alive and kicking. Kicking ass, at that.

I personally think FFXI would loose a lot of its visual charm at this point where an engine upgrade to take place, in addition to a major consumer burn.

Its cute PC gamers think they're the center of the industry. Sadly, its not true, console gamers are. More and more, development focus shifts away from PC development more and more every day. A lot of good PC Devs have either dried up and died, moved on to console game development, multiplatform development or stick to making RTS and MMOs.

Bioware is now making a Sonic the Hedgehog RPG on the Nintendo DS.

Think about that seriously, because I'm not making a joke. They really are making this game. This after Mass Effect, Jade Empire and Knights of the Old Republic.

Sign of the times.

[Hershies]

Re: Things that should be improved about FFXI...

There isn't much room left to go on graphics and realism at this point, if that isn't obvious to people now, I have to feel sorry for those people. Any leap we take beyond PS3 is going to be marginal and unimpressive. Its going to be things like framerate and diversifying models and the size of zones that matters beyond the graphics.

But then, look what handheld is owning the world right now. The graphics are just a cut above what N64 could do and even then its mostly just used for 2D games, which are still alive and kicking. Kicking ass, at that.

I personally think FFXI would loose a lot of its visual charm at this point where an engine upgrade to take place, in addition to a major consumer burn.

Its cute PC gamers think they're the center of the industry. Sadly, its not true, console gamers are. More and more, development focus shifts away from PC development more and more every day. A lot of good PC Devs have either dried up and died, moved on to console game development, multiplatform development or stick to making RTS and MMOs.

Bioware is now making a Sonic the Hedgehog RPG on the Nintendo DS.

Think about that seriously, because I'm not making a joke. They really are making this game. This after Mass Effect, Jade Empire and Knights of the Old Republic.

Sign of the times.

I agree with you completely. PC gamers tend to be elitest and lash out due to the fact that their platform is an ongoing battle just to keep a pulse. PC gaming gets a difibulator whenever releases like Half-Life 2, WoW, Crysis, and Starcraft 2 come about and keeps it on life support that much longer. Will it ever die? Of course not! However, bbq is absolutely correct is saying that console gaming has a MUCH larger marketshare when it comes to gaming.

FFXI is an aging title, and there's no way around that. I was pretty much dreaming when I wished for dropped PS2 support and a graphics overhaul to take advantage of new hardware (ala EQ). You can tell I was blowing steam especially when I added I'd like to see a jump button

I didn't mean to offend console owners with my wishes... I am a 360 gamer afterall. It urks me slightly to see the game held back because of the PS2, though.. I won't lie. I believe that if it WAS a PC title, we would have very possibly seen greater leaps in technology that FFXI uses for better PC and 360 clients. Obviously an assumption.

[Feba]

Re: Things that should be improved about FFXI...

The thing is, the MMO market *is* owned by PCs, and the PS2 is a dead system. The 360 can do better, the PC can do better, and if they release it on the PS3, that can do better. A graphics overhaul isn't too much to ask, CCP has done it with a game of similar size, popularity-wise, in fact I believe they're overhauling to to DX10 AND OpenGL. I've read that they're planning on having clients that take full advantage of Mac, Linux, or Vista, while of course keeping their older (DX8 I believe) client functioning as well. Keep in mind this company has basically started from scratch, not from a huge empire. Hell, I think they're still hiring, and growing.

A better looking game isn't too much to ask for. SE could EASILY do it, they just don't want to.

There isn't much room left to go on graphics and realism at this point, if that isn't obvious to people now

Sure there is. Games have barely begun to cross the uncanny valley. Physics in most games have much room for improvement, as does interactivity. Even Shenmue's FREE system, which was way ahead of it's time (personally I still think it's better than any game I've seen) wasn't fully interactive. In the future, a game might let you pick up a box, put it down outside your garage, and climb onto the roof. Not because you need to to be able to progress in the game, but because you can. AI has a huge way to go, you can bet your hide that AI will take a lot of processing power in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if 15 years from now we weren't using our headsets to issue commands Ala SOCOM, but we use them to have a chat with NPCs. Of course the date sim market in Japan will take advantage of this. Look at dead rising, at how many different items there are to use as weapons. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's played something such as a Zelda game, where I wonder why the character doesn't just get through something with brute force, or ask someone a question about something to save a bunch of time. Games are still very very rigid, whereas reality is far more fluid.

Let's compare two things you might do in a video game and in real life.

using Shenmue as an example, you find a letter that has some weird symbols on it. Normally, you have to track down a specific character to figure it out. But in reality, you could go to a library, spend time searching for a book, and figure it out. You could take it to a university professor who deals in cryptology.

Think about how many times you've shown an item to a character in a video game only to get "No Response." Or "Sorry, I don't know anything about that."- in a more fluid game, they'd be able to say "Hm...I don't know. It kinda reminds me of <totally incorrect suggestion to follow" or "Why don't you take it to <random person who knows nothing about the subject, but has a side quest". Not characters you have to talk to to further the story.

In a future video game, it might have an online element... but it would be nearly impossible for you to tell an NPC walking down the street from a fellow human. The game itself might just be an empty planet, and people can work the land themselves. Not by manipulating 3D elements, but by building it. Not by synthing it, but by showing your character how to build it.

For example, you're stuck on an abandoned island. In a current game, such as MI, you'd hunt down whatever you need to solve a puzzle to further your quest to get off it. In the future, you might go looking along the beach for a rock you could use to cut down a tree, when you find it, you cut down a row of trees, eat some of the fruit off the ends of them to satisfy your hunger, and then use the trees themselves to build a makeshift shelter. Once you've done that, you go out fishing with a spear you made by taping a pen to the end of a stick, you bring it back to your shelter, and again decide to eat. You gather up some wood and start a fire... your fish cooks nicely, and the fire keeps you warm as the night starts to chill. Which is good because it's getting windy... wait... the wind blows the fire onto your shelter. As it starts to burn, you realize you've got nowhere to stay again. And the best part is, none of this was scripted. None of this was a character telling you "Hey, go here so we can continue with the story". The only part that happened that was out of your control, something that you didn't want to do, is that your pilot, a fellow human, was new to flying, and panicked when an engine failed. Before that, you were chatting it up with the cute little red head across the isle. Now you just realize you forgot to see if she was human or not.

Games have much, much farther to go in terms of graphics and realism. The sky is the limit. Comparing what games COULD be to what games are now is like comparing Oblivion and Spore combined to a choose your own adventure novel.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Things that should be improved about FFXI...

I'm actually kinda happy to see PC devs branching out like the are now and console developers are doing the same. I don't know if many forthcoming console action games will appear on PC, but things like Devil May Cry 4 are a lifeline to PC gaming, I was happy to get a change to play the Deus Ex games because I never have a good PC.

FFXI was made for the PS2, Square had multiplatform intentions behind this at first. It was Sonys screw-up on FFXI and the HDD - which was a rather large one screw up as they go - that made Square stop being Sony's lapdog, let Enix buy majority shares and really get moving on being a premiere third party again. Now Nintendo, MS and PC gamers get thier games.

I have every intention on moving to another platform and new graphics would be cool, but i don't think its fair to the PS2 for SE to abandon support of PS2 just for the sake of a new graphics engine.

Go look at the summer releases for PS2, there's are some damn good games still on the way. I'm amazed that some of the forthcoming PS2 games rate higher my most-wanted than the 360 and PS3 ones.

Sure there is. Games have barely begun to cross the uncanny valley. Physics in most games have much room for improvement, as does interactivity. Even Shenmue's FREE system, which was way ahead of it's time (personally I still think it's better than any game I've seen) wasn't fully interactive. In the future, a game might let you pick up a box, put it down outside your garage, and climb onto the roof. Not because you need to to be able to progress in the game, but because you can. AI has a huge way to go, you can bet your hide that AI will take a lot of processing power in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if 15 years from now we weren't using our headsets to issue commands Ala SOCOM, but we use them to have a chat with NPCs.

...

I talk about there not being much further to go with graphics and your counterargument is AI and gameplay devices? Technology can lift the thresholds of some game designs, but ingenuity and thinking out of the box has almost as much to do with it.

We've hit photo-realism with PS3. The human eye can only percieve so much further and its going to be art direction - not graphics technology itself - that drives the visual. But we were kinda already there.

I mean, Tekken characters look like the concept art now, they no longer are blocky, polygonal visages of the concept art. If you've seen Fire Emblem for Wii, you can't get much closer to the art concepts than they have in-game. Its pretty impressive stuff. Even the FFVII PS3 tech demo wasn't too far-removed from Advent Children visually.

Will animations, framrate, AI and such improve? Sure, that's a different matter. But are people going to drop $700 on the future consoles when the graphics just don't leap ahead the same way they did this time?

I doubt it. Just look at PS3 now and look what's outselling it - a weaker, cheaper system. Apparently people can live without the graphics, it was proven several times over with Game Boy, now DS and Wii are proving again that you don't have to be cutting-edge and blinged out to be top dog.

[nickofearth]

Re: Things that should be improved about FFXI...

As far as I know/am concerned. SE delayed the HDD to keep FFXI from owning EQOA:Frontiers for the holidays. They decided against giving us what they said we'd get (internet browser and demos) Then it didn't get much support. End result HDD dies. ><

[Feba]

Re: Things that should be improved about FFXI...

I talk about there not being much further to go with graphics and your counterargument is AI and gameplay devices?

You said graphics *and realism*. Big difference. I touched on the graphics point, but my main point was realism.

We've hit photo-realism with PS3.

I disagree. PS3 games look pretty, yes, but they're still notably different from real life. Remember that most games look good by using shortcuts, like matchhead crowds, not actually being detailed. Like I said, we've barely reached the uncanny valley. Between that and realism is a giant gap. When your character's haircut doesn't change it from HAIRSTYLE_AFR to HAIRSTYLE_MHK but changes the hairs according to how it's cut, have some realism in it. I'm sure we've all had a time or another where we go in for a hair cut, it looks fine when we get it, then we wake up the next day and it looks like crap- that's realism.

How many times in video games do you walk into a building that really seems realistic to you? offices with nearly clutter free desks except a book here or a notepad there. Cabins with the same foldout posted up next to each other a few times in a row. Lockers that have one or two things in them, compared to how many things you'd actually have in a locker. I know I've personally never wandered into a room in video games that looks anywhere near a room someone other than a clean freak would actually live in. I also know that if there's something on the floor, I don't jump over it, I make a big step. Yes, this isn't all due to graphics power, but a lot of it is, and there's a huge way to go until you're able to walk over to a magazine on a desk, open it up, and feel like it's an actual magazine.

[Murphie]

Re: Things that should be improved about FFXI...

My hair cuts always look awesome.

[Akashimo]

Re: Things that should be improved about FFXI...

I'm surpised the topic of realism hasn't turned to good old scifi dreaming yet(*cough*holodeck*cough*) Far as I see,(demos in store alone & drooling at them), PS3 and 360 both look like they can push the borders of what games can/can't do in terms of graphics, but whats the point if the price and quaility of game play isn't there? When I first gotten FFXI on the pc, the opening movie won me in an instant and peaked my curiousity. Character creation was, amazing, at that time. Entering the game for the first time and exploring all the areas, I absolutely loved it all. With exception to majority of Sea areas, Salavage and Enj thingy, there is little areas I haven't gone to just for graphic curiousity. But things such as the Missions, af quests and story behind ballista/brenner is what really hits and keeps me playing(assuming social element is completely agreeable therefore didn't need to metion). Content > graphics.

[Kailea]

Re: Things that should be improved about FFXI...

As far as I know/am concerned. SE delayed the HDD to keep FFXI from owning EQOA:Frontiers for the holidays. They decided against giving us what they said we'd get (internet browser and demos) Then it didn't get much support. End result HDD dies. ><

Thats Sony's doing not SE's

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Things that should be improved about FFXI...

As far as I know/am concerned. SE delayed the HDD to keep FFXI from owning EQOA:Frontiers for the holidays. They decided against giving us what they said we'd get (internet browser and demos) Then it didn't get much support. End result HDD dies. ><

HDD was Sony's product and Sony treated EQOA like a red-headed stepchild in order to make FFXI look way more appealing. EQOA was actually a pretty fun game once you got past the graphics and a lot of what EQ2 players enjoy now came out of the trial and errors of that product.

Sony dropped the ball in acquiring the resources to make the HDDs, they failed to support the product and give developer incentive to take advantage of its games. FFXI, the Resident Evil Outbreak games and Sega 2k Sports title were the only games to really take advantage of the HDD's features.

When Sony stopped supporting the HDD, thus not supporting a huge project Square created exclusively for thier system, Square stopped being 100% exclusive with Sony. They made a studio with Nintendo, let Enix become their main shareholder and moved into PC and multiplatform development. I'm sure the Enix side had much to do with it as well, as did Nintendo's dominance in the handheld market.

What boggles my mind is even after the HDD mistakes made last generation on Xbox and PS2, HDD support remains optional on 360 and PS3. Pretty stupid, if you ask me, not many developers will take advantage of the HDD for the reason of it being optional.

[nickofearth]

Re: Things that should be improved about FFXI...

Gah, I havne't been getting much sleep lately. I meant Sony lol. I really hope you knew I meant Sony too giving what my post said( FFXI vs. EQOA:Frontiers.) Of course from the sounds of your posts, you didn't.

[PhiberOpticks]

Re: Things that should be improved about FFXI...

I highly doubt that PC gaming will ever die. This is because the direct of consoles is going more towards multimedia, and becoming more like specialized PCs every generation. Shit, you can already surf the internet. That's a start, at least.

the PS2 is a dead system.

Hardly. Most playstation gamers aren't taking the next step up because of the ridiculously high price. Besides, the PS2 is still getting hot titles. In fact, I just picked up God of War 2 last month. Great game. It's not quite dead yet.