If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

[Legal Fish]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

Well, still, why not give RDM Staff? 51+, that's all we use in parties if we're doing our job.

More of an over-sight than being against it... if you want, I'll go back and give them like a D, whenever I feel like it.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

I, personally, feel that the lack of a Staff Skill is supposed to be a reminder of what RDM was supposed to be.

That's how I view it, at least.

[Vyuru]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

Suggest away if you want, but if it's weak, I'm going point out how.

I think not, if someone disagrees with you, you tend to rip their ideas to pieces rather than have a constructive conversation.

Also, your ideas on what is broken and not broken seem to me to be a bit out of order.

Let's look at what you have in mind for dragoon, a ton of +haste abilities that totals +10% haste, let's look at what you have not mentioned, at the Longinus Lance that you keep wanting to put in, the one that is lvl 72 or so, attacks 2-3 times with full damage rating appropriate for it's level as I recall, unlike other mercurial weapons.

Super haste + lance that attacks 2-3 times + either samurai or warrior subjob, eventually toss in a Brutal Earring and Ares gear, now honestly how broken would that be?

Sorry, but no one is really going to listen to you seriously until you actually listen to others and treat them with at least a little respect.

Sadly I think you know that already.

[BurningPanther]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

If you call the way a job is supposed to work "nostalgia," then I guess no other reason than nostalgia. But then, a SMN that summons I guess is nostalgia, a BLM that nukes is nostalgic... but hey, FFXI is a whole different look at the FF genre, so those "nostalgic" concepts are open to re-interpretation, eh?


First, a look at magical capability.

Enfeebling skill? The thing we're supposed to be best at? Flawed. It balances back and forth just fine under normal conditions(such as experience parties), except that RDM Enfeebling is almost outdone by by other jobs. But the bigger issue: when faced with any opponent IT and up, you notice the flaws.
The thing is, skills mostly determine accuracy(and interrupt rate, but that's a non-issue). Healing magic just recovers HP, so the accuracy is a moot point there. Elemental skill encompasses Elemental accuracy, but since most all Elemental magic is damage(or potency)-oriented, it doesn't matter.

If a WHM piled on the + Healing skill and nothing else... well, Healing is a joke skill, but I'll come to that later.

If a BLM focused solely on +Elemental skill, he may not hit high numbers, but he's about guaranteed to do damage.

If a PLD piled high on Divine skill, his Flash would still take effect, his Holy would still do damage regardless of MND. Again, not the highest numbers, but it would have it's intended effect.

The problem with Enfeebling magic in general, there are two factors required for it to function properly:
1. It has to land, and
2. It has to proc decently(as in you can actually notice a difference).
This is where enfeebling falls short. There are all or nothing spells(Silence, Gravity, Sleep, Bind), that all you need is accuracy. Just make sure they land, and they will take effect. NO INT or MND needed. There are also spells like Dia, whose accuracy and potency are not in question, they will always land and take effect unless the mob has some invincibility(re: pots and Gurlurfur the Menacing).
However, there are a RDM's core enfeebles; Slow, Paralyze, Blind, that require both accuracy and potency. The shortfall is here.
Against mobs IT and higher(such as HNMS, etc), resist rates are heavy, and as a result, you spend all your macro space on + accuracy(+ Enfeebling skill), and are less available to focus on potency-determining factors, such as MND and INT. What you are left with a Slow that lands but only does the bare minimum, a Blind that lands, but does nothing, and my least favorite: a Paralyze that lands, but never procs.

Again, this isn't much of an issue in common circumstances, but glaring problem toward endgame. One might say that it's necessary, given the potentially powerful effect Enfeebling magic can have, but then: if you won't let it work when it matters most, why have it?

Enfeebling magic is also generic. In everyday circumstances, it's very apparent that the most you need is a C rating to land a spell. WHM, BLM, and DRK all have C Enfeebling skill ratings, but because they are more specialized, they can afford to gear more heavily in +MND or +INT; this is why you will occasionally hear cases of a WHM or SMN's Paralyze procing better than the RDM, or a BLM's Blind reducing accuracy more noticeably.

What Enfeebling magic needs is a better balance between potency and accuracy, to allow for an option to better balance between potency and accuracy gear for a RDM. This balance should manifest itself at a higher level than is attainable by other jobs that use Enfeebling, so that the difference between RDM Enfeebling and others is made more clear.

Poison is a good example of this, since it's damage over time is influenced more heavily by + skill than by INT, and it just so happens that + skill also improves it's accuracy. If the other Enfeebles worked this way, RDM Enfeebles would be more respectable in high-level circumstances.

This is what I mean by Enfeebling magic's gimpness. At higher levels, MAcc-potency stat ratios yield diminishing returns. At lover levels, it's indistinguishable enough to make RDM's Enfeebling as expendable as any other job's.

A fix to Enfeebling skill would ensure that there remains a clear difference between RDM enfeebling and everyone else(BLM, WHM, DRK, BRD, NIN...), while easing our reliance on magical gear(i.e., them broken staves), and allowing us to wear other optional(re: melee) gear at less drastic cost.



On to Healing skill... broken! Basically, it suffers the same issue as Enfeebling skill. The skill itself counts for mostly... what? Interrupt rate? The skill itself doesn't account for much in the way of Cure potency, to the extent that even a job with C- skill can reach the soft cap on cures. The only point where skill might matter is in Cure/Curaga tiers that only WHM gets anyway.

Now, this flaw in Healing skill applies mostly to WHM, but it applies to RDM too in this case that because Healing skill counts for so little, it's entirely too easy to get a RDM to Cure, where in "Burn mentality," RDM is faster with MP and just as good as WHM with healing.
A fix to Healing skill would return Cure potency to WHM, plain and simple. Parties would recognize the need for one, and should they have to go without, the party would pace themselves accordingly(or they would want to).



Elemental skill? Not really a problem here, it's as strong as it's rated to be. This can be a problem in itself, as RDM nuking is often synonymous with "lol," but this is mostly due to the skewed nature of Healing skill.
Enhancing? It's got it's uses, the handful of spells that are actually affected by it aren't affected by much. Enhancing counts for significantly less than MND with respect to Stoneskin, nor does it take much to cap Phalanx or a bar-spell's resistance. However, it takes entirely too much Enhancing skill to buff en-spells, an impractical amount. Calculating en-spell damage/resist rate the same way Phalanx resistance is calculated would make the spells far more formidable.



Dark magic skill? Almost irrelevant. While important in boosting the DoT on Bio, that should ultimately not be the goal in casting Bio. You're mostly going for the Atk down, which is assured on a mostly unresistable spell.



Divine skill? Hahahahahahah! What Divine? The only Divine spell we had was Dia, which was changed to Enfeebling(presumably to give RDM a better edge in Dia DoT, though I honestly don't know for sure).
We have the skill... but NO accordant skill. Anyone else see a problem here?


In short, the magical is far from perfect, it's just been ignored.



Then there is, of course, the melee capability. B rank(max 250 skill), in both dagger and sword, yet extremely sparse Weapon Skill selection in both, laughable damage. It's not difficult to raise one(or both) to A- rank, improving hit rate and damage, only needing a minor tweak to stats. Focusing on improvements in Accuracy would keep mean damage remains behind a BLU(only slightly), while improved hit rate would still make RDM melee a hard to ignore contribution.

I fail to see why the way the job ought to be played(skilled enough to operate in both back and front line), is somehow broken, or taboo to you. BLU can melee well, has damaging offensive spells(some of which double as potent debuffs), strong buffs, and can heal, and yet is not unbalanced or overpowered at all. They ask for more spells, no one says "shut up, you can self-exp chain, you need no more!"

RDM magical and combat aspects were balanced just fine back when the game was 50 capped, but as the game progressed and the cap raised, our magical ability progressed, but the combat aspect was simply left behind for various reasons.

Tell me what is so broken about my expectations.

[Legal Fish]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

Longinus Lance

You don't have to assume my ideas are compatible with each other. If I wanted to include a powerhouse weapon, I probably would have noted it. Despite that, I think somehow, worse case scenario, you have another Ridil-WAR. 12% is nice, but the Super-DRG won't get to feel the greater benefit of "Enhance Dual Wield".

now honestly how broken would that be?

Only a tad bit compared to the current state of the game. It was meant to be on tier of Black Belt and Ridil, very powerful and rare items that change players who have them. It came from a quest that would require repeat kills of Tiamat/Jorm/Vrtra.

Again, I excluded it from there, so it's not a concern.

Enfeebling skill?

Some of this is right and some of this is wrong(or well, is rambling/nonsense). However, thanks to Merit II abilities it's hardly a concern. I guess SE went and solved this problem for us eh?

If you noticed I do something for RDM, making Blind II more effective on blood-tanks... making RDM a very useful for anyone who uses that style(which I try to fix/bring back), which is already the case thanks to Phalanx II.

Healing skill... broken!

Of course it is, check out my comments on Healing Skill. I've added a benefit for going over the cap.

Dark magic skill?

Big disagree on your reason for casting Bio. DoT is THE reason to cast Bio, and it's priceless for fights like the chariots in Salvage or even stuff with just big regen. Dark Skill is very important for a /BLM or /DRK to use Aspir/Drain(/Stun).

Same case for Divine Skill... if you didn't have base skill you would NEVER be able to land Banish spells, as lol as they are.

I too don't see the point in giving BLU more spells, so I didn't.

You seem to be asking for A- weapon as a toy or something. Like a pretty gift. The game doens't need it. It would be in the same caliber of me asking SE for Gravity, Stoneskin, Blink, CureI-III, and Reraise to be on the BLM spell list so I can sub NIN or BLU or something.


Your biggest problem?

Don't fix what isn't "broken". RDM isn't broken, end of story! ("Thanking" the hell out of each other doesn't change)

[BurningPanther]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

Some of this is right and some of this is wrong(or well, is rambling/nonsense). However, thanks to Merit II abilities it's hardly a concern. I guess SE went and solved this problem for us eh?

No, they didn't. First of all, I'll apologize for getting too caught up in examples and comparisons. I should have spent more time getting to the point of Enfeebling's issues. However, S-E most certainly did not make all right with the world with Group one Macc merits and Group two enfeebles.
In group one, you get six(because the felt Light and Dark Macc were worth excluding) categories by which to improve accuracy, but only enough merits to make any two wholly effective, and if you spend any of those merits on Convert recast, you're suddenly left with a good deal less to improve a sweeping MAcc/potency issue.
Then you have group two, where a whopping THREE spells can be merited that increase their own MAcc over time, and again, only enough points for two full upgrades, which, to make said spells worthwhile, should be fully upgraded. So they gave natural MAcc the a THREE tier 2 Enfeebling spells? Yipee. Whatever they did was at both times not enough, and still ignores all the other Enfeebles in my inventory that didn't come meritable.

Furthermore, this doesn't even touch the other 74 levels you DON'T have access to tier 2 enfeebles.

If you noticed I do something for RDM, making Blind II more effective on blood-tanks... making RDM a very useful for anyone who uses that style(which I try to fix/bring back), which is already the case thanks to Phalanx II.

Blind 2. ONE SPELL. Haha.

Big disagree on your reason for casting Bio. DoT is THE reason to cast Bio, and it's priceless for fights like the chariots in Salvage or even stuff with just big regen. Dark Skill is very important for a /BLM or /DRK to use Aspir/Drain(/Stun).

I referred to Dark skill as mostly irrelevant because RDM gets only one native Dark spell, being Bio, subs change like underwear, so it's silly trying to rack your brain over skills based on subs.
My point is, RDM, even with all gear available, will still not be able to reach the 10HP/tick on Bio, but the Atk down it offers is absolute. If a RDM wanted that much DoT, he should never look to Bio, he has Poison, on which he can reach the cap quite effortlessly.
I wouldn't argue a raise in skill here, but we're aren't hurting without one.

Same case for Divine Skill... if you didn't have base skill you would NEVER be able to land Banish spells, as lol as they are.

Yeah, but we don't have Banish, do we? Oh, wait, we can only get a Divine spells augmenting our native Divine skill by subbing another job. Again. Native skill, no native spell. How is this not a flaw?

I too don't see the point in giving BLU more spells, so I didn't.

But, you're not S-E.

Of course it is, check out my comments on Healing Skill. I've added a benefit for going over the cap.

Something we can both agree on. However, WHM would benefit most securely in the adjustment of MND-Skill modifiers, allowing Healing skill to count for more regarding potency, rather than just caps and interruption rates.

You seem to be asking for A- weapon as a toy or something. Like a pretty gift. The game doens't need it. It would be in the same caliber of me asking SE for Gravity, Stoneskin, Blink, CureI-III, and Reraise to be on the BLM spell list so I can sub NIN or BLU or something.
Your biggest problem?
Don't fix what isn't "broken". RDM isn't broken, end of story! ("Thanking" the hell out of each other doesn't change)

Hardly "end of story." The game needs RDM to have better combat skill like it needed chocobo racing, sure, but that's also saying the introductions of Tomahawk, Angon, and Drain 2 were also unnecessary. And, no, they weren't completely. WAR, DRG, and DRK were contributing pretty will to the game without them. However, they were introduced, and they resulting in helping said jobs contribute in manners unique to those jobs.

I'm asking for increased melee capability, which is only about as useless as the above items mentioned. Increased combat capability helps RDM to contribute from all positions, like it was designed. Nothing broken about it, not asking to be a super Weapon Skill spamming SAM, nor a heavy damage-dealing MNK, doesn't even have to be quite on the same level as BLU, just good enough not to be waved off feeble pokes giving a mob TP. The job was meant to do as much, and so should be.

I'll agree RDM is hardly broken, that title is currently reserved for poor PUP. But RDM most definitely does have glaring flaws, flaws that have too long gone ignored.

I already know what my problem is. Expecting the best to be brought out of the job I play, the same I'd expect for any job. However, I play a job that is designed to function in all positions in a party, which I don't see happening. And I'm not willing to settle.

[Legal Fish]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

But, you're not S-E.

You figure? Gee.

Anyway, RDM get three enfeebaling spells and three DoTs from merits. You seem to want... what? 10 spells? You are quite impossible to please.

However, I play a job that is designed to function in all positions in a party, which I don't see happening. And I'm not willing to settle.

Bad news: RDM isn't designed that way. There is no job in FFXI that is simply "Everything". That defeats the purpose of partying.

[BurningPanther]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

You figure? Gee.
Anyway, RDM get three enfeebaling spells and three DoTs from merits. You seem to want... what? 10 spells? You are quite impossible to please.

Where did I say that? I was referring to the MAcc bonuses to the merited enfeebles are not a fix to Enfeebling, as they don't cover the rest of the enfeebles in a RDM's inventory. What they did was comparable to dressing up shit in flowers and diamonds; in the end, it's still shit.

Bad news: RDM isn't designed that way. There is no job in FFXI that is simply "Everything". That defeats the purpose of partying.

No, a job that does everything GREAT defeats the purpose of a party. A job that does everything adequately(but still pro at one thing), is good for filling in the gaps. RDM does everything well enough to fill a position, except viable melee. It's time to address that.

And yes, RDM was designed as such, to play all positions, a switch-hitter. It was supposed to be the everyjob. But it has been ignored for so long(since being left with Refresh), everyone, including S-E, hasn't bothered to take a look.

[Legal Fish]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

No, a job that does everything GREAT defeats the purpose of a party. A job that does everything adequately(but still pro at one thing), is good for filling in the gaps. RDM does everything well enough to fill a position, except viable melee. It's time to address that.

Okay, RDM will be Great at debuffing and buffing, good at curing and nuking, and bad at meleeing... sound fair? Isn't GREAT at everything.

And yes, RDM was designed as such, to play all positions, a switch-hitter. It was supposed to be the everyjob. But it has been ignored for so long(since being left with Refresh), everyone, including S-E, hasn't bothered to take a look.

Do you not know the history of your job? RDM was like this, it caused no one to invite them and they were crap. Then SE changed them into what they are today... and they are the second most invited job in the game post 40.

[BurningPanther]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

Okay, RDM will be Great at debuffing and buffing, good at curing and nuking, and bad at meleeing... sound fair? Isn't GREAT at everything.

Again, not asking for great. We're GREAT at Enfeebling, GOOD at nuking, GOOD at Healing, why not GOOD at melee?

Do you not know the history of your job? RDM was like this, it caused no one to invite them and they were crap. Then SE changed them into what they are today... and they are the second most invited job in the game post 40.

Yeah, I know the history of the job, I know it well. S-E started us off mediocre, but didn't consider the true worth of mediocre stats. Then they came along and gave us a bunch of imrpoved stuff, but the job that walked the line between melee and combat suddenly didn't, and that needs to be resolved.

[Legal Fish]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

Right then, this is hopeless. Maybe you'll have more of an argument when SE starts to have any intention, at all, of making RDM better melee(like we need more melees at that).

[KoukiRyu]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

I still don't see what there is to complain about with RDM...

They have SOOOOOOOOOOO much that they can do, and they're already one of the most desired jobs at least in exp pt, next to BRD. Why oh why oh why would you want good sword skill? Are you that amazing that you can keep up main healing, resting, hasting, etc all while melee'ing a mob for damage, losing your TP while you switch use staves, etc?

And you know for sure that you're not going to be using a sword in any-end game areas, cause...well actual DD have trouble doing good damage. So...what do you want it for? Just quests and stuff? Your current sword skill works good enough for that. <_>

And, I don't mean any offense by this, but what are RDM's "glaring flaws"? I just don't quite see them.

[Vyuru]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

Do you not know the history of your job? RDM was like this, it caused no one to invite them and they were crap. Then SE changed them into what they are today... and they are the second most invited job in the game post 40.

Perhaps you don't know the history of the job, it got nerfed into mediocrity in Beta, then because it suffered from invites due to being "nerfed" and "average" SE gave it a boost.

Gee, sounds like so many of the jobs that get altered doesn't it?

Also, Blue Mages are good at enfeebles, goot at nukes, superb at healing, and good at DD. Just because a Blue Mage wants to spam SATA+Death Scissors, or some other big damaging spell, and ignore their enfeeblement spells does not mean they don't have good enfeebling spells.

So yes, by your own definition, Blue Mages are broken. Good at everything, probably bad at none. Heck I'd expect that Blue Mages could make good tanks too, and deal good damage still.

[Legal Fish]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

This argument is sure getting old. I'd like to think I made plenty of interesting points in the OP, and yet, I get the feeling it's all gone to waste because a couple of RDMs want to be BLUs instead of RDMs. I feel like saying "Hey, just go level BLU, sorry RDM didn't turn out like you thought it would" and asking "Why don't you look at the 40-50 other things I thought about changing?".

So yes, by your own definition, Blue Mages are broken. Good at everything, probably bad at none. Heck I'd expect that Blue Mages could make good tanks too, and deal good damage still.

Only on paper if you phrase it that way. BLU has potential to be broken depending on which spells SE gives them in the future, I admit that, but right now, pretty safe. They are much more versatile than RDM, indeed. They aren't as good as debuffers as RDM, though getting a few unique ones out of reach of RDM. As versatile as they are, they don't have the endurance to do all the things they like at once. Sure, they can cure/debuff/nuke/and buff themselves, but they will quickly run out of MP. A RDM can use everything they have available(assuming they only assist in nuking, using it in moderation) and not suffer the same penalties.

Can we put this one to rest already? Why not complain about what I did with RNG or BRD instead... I didn't even talk about RDM much.

[Lmnop]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

-"Stunning", "Enfeebling", and other type of physical weapon skills with TP modifiers that don't increase with TP over 100 now do at a rate of "100 TP=1.0, 200 TP= 2.0, and 300 TP= 3.0".

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. You're implying that a weapon skill that adds an enfeeble (like paralyze from Blade:Retsu) doesn't have it's effect scale with tp? They do... though admittedly not well (like tp is for all WSs, really).

As far as I know, there are exactly 3 exceptions to this rule: Tachi: Yukikaze, Tachi: Gekko, and Tachi: Kasha. All 3 add an enfeeble, yet TP is tied to damage. And I wouldn't have it any other way for these guys.

As for skills:

-I wouldn't want DRKs to have B- Shield. I believe they're able to equip shields on flavor alone. And also for some stats every once in a while (though not like). If they were given shield skill, even D would be quite enough.

-War wouldn't need B- Archery (though C would be nice). Rangers themselves are only A-.

However, I wouldn't mind seeing a B- ranking on THF's Xbows.

Speaking of THF improvements, looking at your "increased accuracy of skillchains" makes me wanna plug an idea I had: A simple job trait for THFs that increases the accuracy of skillchains they close. Even while I say this, I do agree that SCs in general - regardless of party makeup - should be effective. It's horrendous that they're not.

---

I'm not sure what the point is in increasing dread spikes casting time/recast to 6 minutes. This just makes recasts more horrendous if you don't disable Hasso in time. I can't find the duration of Dread Spikes, actually. Is it currently 1 minute or 3 minutes? I do believe if it isn't already, it should be upped to 3 minutes. Maybe even the same duration for Drain 2.

En-spells for pld/drk would be fun, but ultimately useless. As such, I can't very well say I'd be happy that S-E devoted their devs' time to developing something that'll be ultimately useless.

My DRG friend already outparses me non-stop. I don't think DRGs really need haste traits but.... I think the better progression for DRG would be:


Auto Haste II [level 50] - Haste + 6-8%

Accuracy Bonus II [level 70]


I was thinking about smaller amounts of auto haste and lower level traits but... for instance, Haste +3% actually doesn't get a 492 delay weapon an extra swing until they've been meleeing ~80 seconds straight though. this could be helpful 'til around level 55 though, still. But I think just one front-loaded trait would be more useful for a DRG.



P.S. BLUs are overpowered.