If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

[BurningPanther]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

Yuck. RDM is fine the way it is if all you like is sitting on the back line.
It's true S-E righted all of RDM's wrongs when it comes to BLU. BLU walks the line almost perfectly between magical and combat capability: Quick, damaging spells, decent balance of MAcc/potency, formidable melee capability, even a balanced access to melee and magical armor/weapons(re: some of the coolest swords, improved WS access, freakin' Homam), BLU got all these considerations to make the class as valuable on the front line as they can be on the back line.

Everything RDM should have gotten.

What RDM has is mediocre melee ability(compensated for in sacrifice of vast amounts of MAcc to support combat capability), and en-spells... damage that improves on a very steep curve.

[LoneGamer]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

Our AF weapon is a sword. I just don't agree with RDM being better with daggers than with swords. And, like has been said, RDM is fine in parties, but weapon equalization would be nice to have. I'd like to be able to hurt stuff with my sword a bit better when solo, that's all. It's nice for having fun.

[BurningPanther]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

Our AF weapon is a sword. I just don't agree with RDM being better with daggers than with swords. And, like has been said, RDM is fine in parties, but weapon equalization would be nice to have. I'd like to be able to hurt stuff with my sword a bit better when solo, that's all. It's nice for having fun.

Well, we don't really have to worry about our dagger ability outdoing our Sword, but the problem is in selection. We have better Dagger Weapon Skill selection, and our overall dagger selection seems better than sword. Our sword selection(to include Weapon Skills) should be every bit as varied our dagger selections.

To add to this, armor selection. We stop getting heavy armor access at about the 50(referring to scale armors, which used to be alternates for us). This seems to coincide with about the last time we were any good at meleeing , which was level 50 cap. And armor selection at higher levels seems to belie the multiple disciplines we are beholden to(example: BLU has access to Homam and Nashira, we are relegated to Nashira only). The first real access we get to a decent hybrid gear(Wise was a failed prototype), was with the unveiling of Morrigan's, and that is only thanks to the fact that BLU wears it, without which I bet you the gear would bear caster-properties only. On top of all that, it's largely unattainable, in the same manner as Dalmatica.

Ultimately, the same thing you are looking for to have more solo fun is the same thing I'm looking for to increase on the frontline as well as back: that is increased combat capability.

It comes down to improving one of two things: accuracy, or damage. I'd support an Acc improvement, in this way, we can deal out formidable melee damage(especially paired with Haste), but not threaten the place of dedicated combat roles, such as WAR or THF. The addition of one or two combat-based job traits would help support this.

It would even help to give en-spells a native Acc bonus property, which might bolster the concept of melee-through-magic.

[Legal Fish]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

Hmmm...

So, ideally you want a job that can:
-Mitigate damage well
-Melee DD well
-Cure great
-Nuke well
-Buff great
-Debuff great (best in the game)

So you want a job to do everything. More so, you want to be able to do everything. Doesn't work that way in a MMORPG that requires you to party.

This is exactly why RDM are not good DDers. Balance.

SE released a job at first that sucked ass. It was a "Jack of all Trades" as people were originally led to believe RDM was going to be. Then SE realized their mistake and they made a job that is the not just a mix of others.

They made RDM a support/enfeebler(a role neither BLM or WHM fulfill greatly, leaving no other mage job to represent it). Their job is buff party members(and themselves) and enfeeble the monsters. They still have jack of all trades status with decent melee capability(on a solo skill), access to nukes, and access to cures.

Compared to BLU, BLU is a much weaker buffer and enfeebler to RDM, but a better melee DD/Nuker. Much like COR is weaker buffer compared to BRD, but a much better damage dealer. Every slot in the game has been filled so what SE does is exchange traits among current jobs to make new ones.

There is a reason RDM melee is LOL in exp. RDM's sword skill is much like PUP's h2h skill, in that it's weak, but not useless. RDM are meant to rely on enspell damage on weaker opponents, probably while solo. However, they are best using Gravity(enfeeblement) with DoT spells(enfeeblements)

RDM are Warlocks more-so than Duelist. Welcome to Final Fantasy XI, one of many editions of the Final Fantasy series which is constantly changing it's old archetypes to suit it's new game's environment.

Now, let's keep this about changes that the game could actually use.

[Vyuru]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

Now, let's keep this about changes that the game could actually use.

How about we keep this thread clear of changes that the game could actually use as dictated by LegalFish?

Everyone has a different view as to what changes FFXI could use, yours is not the one and only sacrosanct opinion.

[Legal Fish]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

How about we keep this thread full of changes that the game could actually use as dictated by reason?

Fixed.

Suggest away if you want, but if it's weak, I'm going point out how.

[Malacite]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

It would even help to give en-spells a native Acc bonus property, which might bolster the concept of melee-through-magic.

This is exactly why I want Mystic Knight in the game >_ >

[Yellow Mage]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

Legal Fish has got a point, if you consider the thread title "If SE let me [read: Legal Fish] change jobs, this is how I would do it..."

So, how would anybody other than Legal Fish himself ever be "on topic" with a so thoroughly narcissistically inclined thread as this?

As for my personal opinions to his ideas, some I agreed with, others I didn't. I'll leave it at that.

To Malacite, if Mystic Knight was in the game, than what does Square have left of thier gigantic Red Mage charade? Might as well call them Green Mages, or better yet, why not get rid of them entirely?

After all, COR and BRD have Refreshes too, don't they?

[BurningPanther]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

Now, let's keep this about changes that the game could actually use.

Changes the game could use according to whom? You?

I'm not so self-assured to assume I know what every job in this game needs. I don't play them all, nor do I want to. I only play one.

What I know about that one is that it was meant to play all positions decently, but quite apparently doesn't. This disparity becomes painfully apparent in the "burn party" era, where if the job's worth is to be pronounced on on anything other than back line(as should be the case), then it's melee capability will be brought to a level that, while not threatening, is good enough not to be ignored.
The developers proved this can be done with the introduction of BLU, a job that(as RDM should have), melees well, casts well(even going so far as intertwining potent enfeebling abilities into attack spells), mitigate damage well, buff well, and even heal well, with no need to overcompensate largely in any area. Technically, this would fit your idea of a job that doesn't belong in an MMO. Tell me, should it be removed?

Your idea of "improvement" is to separate and tier Refresh? As unnecessary as the former "Refresh 2" concept people have been chomping at the bit for.

Like I said, i don't know about other jobs, but I know about the one I play. I know that it had a proposed role that, somewhere along the line, got lost or perverted. That much I do know needs fixing.

[Legal Fish]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

I'm being attacked by a large mob of players who are in denial on how their job works... halp.

Anything I add is to assist what SE has in mind, therefor realistic. SE doesn't have RDM Melee DD in mind. Look at your Group II merits.

Like I said, i don't know about other jobs, but I know about the one I play. I know that it had a proposed role that, somewhere along the line, got lost or perverted. That much I do know needs fixing.

Yes, RDM used to suck. Now it doesn't. Thank god.

BLU =/= RDM that's a great DD and Nuker. It's more of a variant of RDM, much like BRD. It can not fill all the roles RDM has, just like RDM can't fill all the roles BLU has. Balance!

If you honestly think RDM has been replaced... nay, if RDM has been but been replaced save for their "Sword magic" abilities(aka, Enspells) then I'm quite curious how you play your RDM. I wouldn't have a BRD paralyze my mobs, a BLU cast Phalanx II on my tanks, nor a COR refresh my party.


I see this becoming RDMs(well, melee RDMs?) vs me for a couple of pages, which is lame. Give me some reasons why RDM should melee, aside from nostalgia*, instead of calling me a mean ol' villain who's oppressing your freedom of speech.

*-I'm a BLM, should I be able to melee too since I could in FF1?


--

Now if you want me to explain my reasoning for RDM's Refresh I (the only change I listed for RDM):

RDM is rather weak in the lower level range. It is unlike what it becomes(enfeebler/support), and more of a white mage/black mage mash that's weaker than both. Like I said before, the original RDM was like this and it sucked.

Refresh I allows RDM to be more important at it's level range. Compare it to COR's Healer Roll and BRD's Ballad.

Refresh I also plays a big importance for other jobs. Look at COR's Evoker's Roll. It's rather weak. However, a COR/RDM will be a full on Refresher by level 50. Or better, a COR and a SMN/RDM... or a BRD/RDM...or perhaps a BLM/RDM and a COR. The list goes on. Let's not forget PLD/RDM and BLU/RDM as soloers.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

*-I'm a BLM, should I be able to melee too since I could in FF1?

Nobody's stopping you from breaking out either the Dagger or the even the Scythe. Though I strongly doubt that, even in FF1, a Black Mage was looked up upon for his 1337 ubar pokiness.

[Legal Fish]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

Nobody's stopping you from breaking out either the Dagger or the even the Scythe.

I'm stopping me.

Though, I sure do love my Scythe when I solo with me NPC! I even put 2 merits into it and have my Abyssal. Lots of fun! But only when I'm not looking to exp or kill a HNM.

Did you guys know I'm leveling RDM? I intend on soloing Faust when it gets to 75. Without a sword. How powerless.

For my Nyzul group, as a BLM, I'm incharge of clearing those Flan floors. As a RDM I'll be more useful on all other floors and still be able to kill those flans for my melee. GAWD, WISH I COULD MELEE MORE THEN I'D BE THE SECOND MOST INVITED JOB IN THE GAME, OH WAIT.

The worst comes to worst, if you never get those melee enhancements, you'll have to fallback on your ability to solo anything that is susceptible to gravity or being a pretty much must have job for Salvage with your Phalanx II.

[LoneGamer]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

Excuse me. I am not a stereotypical "melee RDM". I would apprecaite if you did not flame me just because you disagree with me. Guess what, RDM can do a bit of everything. Guess what, I don't want the ability to DPS in a party with a sword. In parties, I am fully comfortable with my support role, and try to push chains as far as I can.

What I would like, for soloing on my own time, or helping lower level people, is to have the options I have with my Sword be brought up to the level of options I have with my Dagger. I have no fantasies of being an "ubar leet dd". I would just like a tad bit more versatility. Having Sword WS more accessible will not increase the power of RDM to perform Avesta-like solo marathons.

An argument was raised that WAR and DRK have EX Sword skills, even though they do not use Sword primarily, because they are more martial than RDM. Why then, do BRD get EX Dagger skills? Clearly, RDM are more martial than BRDs. Why don't WAR get EX Dagger as well, since they are more martial than RDM and can equip daggers? Why does WHM get EX Staff WS? And so forth.

Oh. You're saying you're doing this "to assist what SE has in mind". How do you know what SE has in mind? Why in the world would SE give out Hand to Hand skill to RDM and BLU? Those jobs have never used Hand to Hand combat in any Final Fantasy game, as best I can recall. And why increase DRK Shield? They use two handed weapons near-exclusively.

You dislike my desire to see RDM get a tad more melee ability, which will not threaten anyone else. Can I thrash you for having ideas in your post I feel are poor?

[Legal Fish]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

Oh. You're saying you're doing this "to assist what SE has in mind". How do you know what SE has in mind? Why in the world would SE give out Hand to Hand skill to RDM and BLU? Those jobs have never used Hand to Hand combat in any Final Fantasy game, as best I can recall. And why increase DRK Shield? They use two handed weapons near-exclusively.

Ah, I've given skill to RDM and BLU so that they can use the weapons they equipped. Currently they can both equip hand to hand weapons but have no skill in them. That is quite ridiculous. When I say "what SE has in mind", I don't only mean their agenda, but improving on what they have started(and perhaps failed on). Increase skills in other jobs for the very same reason.

And perhaps I wasn't talking to your point of view exactly? I didn't even comment on sword vs dagger. I'm more so talking to my opposition who want to see RDM fulfill a DD role(saying it quite bluntly too).

[LoneGamer]

Re: If SE let me change jobs, this is how I would do it...

Well, still, why not give RDM Staff? 51+, that's all we use in parties if we're doing our job.