New FFXI Expansion

[BurningPanther]

Re: New FFXI Expansion

lolToAU is lolToAU for a reason.
No level caps.
Level caps, please. We shouldn't always be able to blow through everything with a character on merits. Lack of caps were what ended up making ZMs so damn broken. Its why ToA missions are so damn broken now.
Stop is Stun.
Demi is Gravity.

Then in that case, lolToAU and ZM mimicry all the way, level caps are are a pain. There's a line between challenge an headache-inducing drudgery, level-capped missions crosses it with zeal. But I believe that missions can be made challenging without capping them.

Stop can be done without imitating Stun, I have a few ideas on how it might differ. On it's surface, it might behave more like Sleep, though.

And Demi is nothing like Gravity. Gravity drops movement speed and evasion, Demi takes a preset fraction of the target's HP. The only similarity is that both shrink in efficacy over time.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: New FFXI Expansion

Then in that case, lolToAU and ZM mimicry all the way, level caps are are a pain. There's a line between challenge an headache-inducing drudgery, level-capped missions crosses it with zeal. But I believe that missions can be made challenging without capping them.

People don't seem to have a problem with level caps when it will get them a prize (BCNM, ISNM, ENM). Completion of CoP, sea and limbus access all are great rewards, why should we have it easy when you get get some of the best accessory slot gear in sea?

SE made it clear with CoP that they want to get low and intermediate players in on the big mission action, too. No level cap and that wouldn't be possible, it would be high-level only content. RoZ and ToA have PLENTY of high-level only content, its time for some intermediate content again and the high level players to humble themselves and go without a super-powered character.

Level-capping has been here since day one, I doubt they'll ever overlook using that or Pathos more in the future.

Restrictions keep people on their toes. I personally think Pathos is a more effective means of blocking weak, cookie-cutter strategy, but if SE wants intermediate players in on missions, level caps are pretty requisite.

Stop can be done without imitating Stun, I have a few ideas on how it might differ. On it's surface, it might behave more like Sleep, though.

Actually, I was incorrect. Bind is Stop when you look at the graphic. Doing the real stop would be no different than sleeping something, which is likely why we don't have Stop in the literal sense. At any rate, Time Magic was at its best with the ATB system because it was designed around that battle system, its kinda odd to implement some of the same spells in a real-time context.

And Demi is nothing like Gravity. Gravity drops movement speed and evasion, Demi takes a preset fraction of the target's HP. The only similarity is that both shrink in efficacy over time.

Gravity has always been Demi. Sometimes it was called Demi, sometimes Gravity. Both spells knocked off 1/4 of a target's HP in other games. That would be utterly broken in the online realm. That's why they made it a reduction in movement speed instead.

[Karinya]

Re: New FFXI Expansion

People don't seem to have a problem with level caps when it will get them a prize (BCNM, ISNM, ENM). Completion of CoP, sea and limbus access all are great rewards, why should we have it easy when you get get some of the best accessory slot gear in sea?
SE made it clear with CoP that they want to get low and intermediate players in on the big mission action, too. No level cap and that wouldn't be possible, it would be high-level only content. RoZ and ToA have PLENTY of high-level only content, its time for some intermediate content again and the high level players to humble themselves and go without a super-powered character.

Another point in favor of level caps: it doesn't matter who has god gear and who doesn't, because they can't use it in a capped fight. Even a 60 cap will shut out most of the extremely powerful gear and level the playing field between different players, which makes it much easier to design a fight that's challenging to everyone.

Who here was bored by PM6-4? Challenged, yes; frustrated, maybe, but bored? No matter how much gear you have you can't blow through it like it was ZM6 or Khimaira 13. Yet, at the same time, people who *aren't* hugely tricked out still stand a chance. It's one of the best designed mission fights in the game, IMO, and being level capped is a big part of what makes it that way.

Any fight that's designed to challenge heavily merited, uber-equipped 75s will probably be completely unwinnable for new 75s - let alone people who aren't 75 yet. I don't think SE wants to lock so many people out of significant areas of content. Sea is challenging to get into - but you can do it by 65. Sky is reachable by a good party of 65s too (although some 75 help can blow through it much easier).

Making content that's both accessible and challenging for players ranging from 65 to 75+max merits+full abj, ridills, jailer drops etc. isn't easy, but one of the proven best ways to do it is to impose a level cap that shuts out a lot of the uber gear and narrows the performance gap between the players.

Actually, I was incorrect. Bind is Stop when you look at the graphic. Doing the real stop would be no different than sleeping something, which is likely why we don't have Stop in the literal sense. At any rate, Time Magic was at its best with the ATB system because it was designed around that battle system, its kinda odd to implement some of the same spells in a real-time context.

I think the closest analog to Stop would be terror - it even freezes the character animation. Except Stop historically lasted longer, when you could get it to stick. It's not like sleep though - dealing damage doesn't break Stop (and *that* is probably why we don't have stop in the literal sense - it'd be extraordinarily powerful. Imagine a stun/terror that lasted 15 or even 30 seconds...)

Gravity has always been Demi. Sometimes it was called Demi, sometimes Gravity. Both spells knocked off 1/4 of a target's HP in other games. That would be utterly broken in the online realm. That's why they made it a reduction in movement speed instead.

True, but then they turned around and added Ruinous Omen, so who knows what they're thinking now. If they do add time mage, Gravija wouldn't be a bad choice for 2hr - deals up to 3/4 the current HP of the target (it can resist and take less, level affects resist rate, Magic Defense Bonus/Shell reduces damage). You'd only get one shot, unlike Diabolos, and also unlike Diabolos you have to take the hate yourself... being a 2hr would keep it from being spammed (assuming the Wild Card/job change loophole is closed somehow).

But when you take out all the spells that don't make sense in a MMO or realtime context (Speed, Return, Void), and the spells that would be too powerful to be allowed (Stop, Float, classic Demi, X-Zone), most of what you have left has already been given to other jobs. That's not necessarily a showstopper - most RDM spells are shared with another job, for example - but there would have to be something to make the job worth using.

[Raydeus]

Re: New FFXI Expansion

People don't seem to have a problem with level caps when it will get them a prize (BCNM, ISNM, ENM). Completion of CoP, sea and limbus access all are great rewards, why should we have it easy when you get get some of the best accessory slot gear in sea?

Another point in favor of level caps: it doesn't matter who has god gear and who doesn't, because they can't use it in a capped fight. Even a 60 cap will shut out most of the extremely powerful gear and level the playing field between different players, which makes it much easier to design a fight that's challenging to everyone.

Give me enough inventory and (Mog House) space so I don't have to spend a freaking hour+ muling gear back and forth every single time and I'll support your level cap fetish.

Also, there's nothing wrong with wanting to use the gear you've work hard to get to make things easier if you want. Anyone who wants to up the challenge can go with lvl 60 AF and don't use any of the "overpowered" gear if challenge is really what they are looking for.



The only thing I agree with is that level caps do allow new players (who are still on their first job and haven't gotten to 75 yet) to enjoy the content gradually from level 30 instead of having to level all the way to 75 first just to start with the missions.

Edit > (If they are lucky enough to get a static that would wait for them that is.)

[Emerald Melios]

Re: New FFXI Expansion

I think Time Mage in FFXI could use spells like:

* Haste I, II, etc.: Just like WHM/RDM, gained in the forties (or maybe slightly earlier)
* Hastega: AOE version, obviously much higher level
* Reflect: Reflects spells/Blue Magic capable abilities
* Reflectga: Adds reflect to everyone
* Float: Levitation, to avoid certain obstacles; increases Earth resistance
* Speed: Increases movement speed of party for a short time
* Quicken: Merit spell that adds Haste and gives Fast Cast

* Slow: You know what it is
* Disable: Inspired from FF12, however for balances just have it inflict Amnesia and only disable weapon skills
* X-Zone/Stop: Unlike past games, this should only phase enemies "out of time" temporarily, making them unable to attack or be attacked (crowd control)

* Bleed I, II, etc.: DoT that can only be healed with Regen or Erase
* Demi I, II, III, etc.: Deals damage and adds Weight effect
* Psiblast I, II, III, etc.: Deals psychic damage and adds Slow
* Comet I, II, III, etc.: Deals damage and small chance to Stun
* Meteor: Merit Group II spell

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: New FFXI Expansion

Give me enough inventory and (Mog House) space so I don't have to spend a freaking hour+ muling gear back and forth every single time and I'll support your level cap fetish.

Not hard to store level capped armor, its just not. Chances are, you've now had years to have a level 30, 40, 50, 60 sets of armor stored on NPC. If you don't have your AFs quested, please shoot yourself in the face. I have most accessories and weapons I'd need on mules.

I don't just keep this stuff around for CoPs.

Also, there's nothing wrong with wanting to use the gear you've work hard to get to make things easier if you want. Anyone who wants to up the challenge can go with lvl 60 AF and don't use any of the "overpowered" gear if challenge is really what they are looking for.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to use your hard-earned gear, but at the same time, you don't have a god-given right to always use it. You want bigger and better stuff? Sometimes you have to be taken out of your comfort zone.

[Raydeus]

Re: New FFXI Expansion

Not hard to store level capped armor, its just not. Chances are, you've now had years to have a level 30, 40, 50, 60 sets of armor stored on NPC. If you don't have your AFs quested, please shoot yourself in the face. I have most accessories and weapons I'd need on mules.

I don't just keep this stuff around for CoPs.

Uh huh, I'm not gonna buy useless stuff I don't need just to be able to store it, go back to the drawing board and bring me a better plan.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to use your hard-earned gear, but at the same time, you don't have a god-given right to always use it. You want bigger and better stuff? Sometimes you have to be taken out of your comfort zone.

It doesn't matter if you like it or not, everyone has the right to use their gear whenever and however they see fit.

If you want to avoid using specific gear to make things more difficult for you and your party then suit yourself. But if you think you have any right to force people to stop using their gear then you should shoot yourself in the face.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: New FFXI Expansion

Uh huh, I'm not gonna buy useless stuff I don't need just to be able to store it, go back to the drawing board and bring me a better plan.

Then you never looked at the bigger picture for your character once armor storage was introduced. If you want to play Batman without the utility belt, that's your call.

It doesn't matter if you like it or not, everyone has the right to use their gear whenever and however they see fit.

Last I checked, SE has the right to tell you how to use your gear, lest we forget Brygid telling us to wear subligars and robes from the beginning so we could complete a quest.

If SE says you gotta wear pre-60 gear to get stuff from a BCNM, you'll do it with no complaints if you want stuff from it.

If you want to avoid using specific gear to make things more difficult for you and your party then suit yourself. But if you think you have any right to force people to stop using their gear then you should shoot yourself in the face.

Your arguement against artificial difficulty is artificial difficulty?

Gee, that's smart.

[Saren]

Re: New FFXI Expansion

Bear with me on this one but the anti level capping sentiment kind of suprised me to be honest. I love level capped missions.

I did my first Promy (Holla) yesterday, I didn’t do all that great, the awesome ranger in my ls who came to help out died in the boss fight because I was stupid about poison pots *shame* but barring that….. damn it was fun. Sneaking down through the zone without a high level player safety net, knowing we were toast if someone got major aggro, fighting the boss after making all the preparations and sorting out the strategy so everyone knew what to do, it was great.

I have had high level help for missions and I have really appreciated it (it’s hard to find people your own level to do lower rank missions with) but it was nothing like doing that promy or when I have soloed missions and I am relying on just me to get something done right. I wasn’t sat in the back secured in a booster seat watching the pretty scenery go by, I was up front in the thick of things and it was awesome. It was one of the first times doing a group thing where I didn’t feel like I was tagging along and getting in the way a bit.

People my level don’t have the opportunity to do those sorts of things very much and we only get to on level capped missions, so please leave them in and possibly add some more (perhaps requiring smaller groups to make that side of things easier)

I am not saying make things frustratingly hard but a mission is frustrating because it’s frustrating not necessarily because its level capped. If you can’t complete a mission without being ridiculously overpowered for it then ….. the problem isn’t the mission. I know it’s quicker and easier for the high levels helping if they can come help us glowing with auras of power and really shiny gear but that’s not what these group missions are supposed to be about.

I love the fact that there are a few important milestones left that have to do as SE intended, that you can’t manoeuvre your way round by bringing along a higher level friend or waiting until you are high enough to cake walk them and I think it should stay that way.

[Vyuru]

Re: New FFXI Expansion

Give me enough inventory and (Mog House) space so I don't have to spend a freaking hour+ muling gear back and forth every single time and I'll support your level cap fetish.

Well, for dragoon I have weapons for level capped events at lvl 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, and kinda have one for lvl 70.

I have armor sets for lvl 30, 40, 50, 60, and lvl 70 cap events, I have some gear for a lvl 20 gear set but it is mostly things like Battle Gloves and a few other odds and ends that may be hard to find sometimes.

I used to have a ton of gear and weapons for a lvl 30-40 capped warrior as well, but I eventually sold that off. All of this gear was stored on my main character, my mule is only used to store goods to sell on the AH, and to sell stuff on the AH.

That does add up to alot of gear since I had different gear setups depending on if I was war/thf, war/nin, or war/mnk.

My point being, is that it really shouldn't take you hours to mule gear over, I could be wrong, but that sounds more like an organization issue to me.

Not hard to store level capped armor, its just not. Chances are, you've now had years to have a level 30, 40, 50, 60 sets of armor stored on NPC.

Last I heard the storage NPCs only accepted complete armor sets, and even then were limited on what they stored for you. I do not have a single complete set for any of my level capped gears, making it rather pointless for me.

[Raydeus]

Re: New FFXI Expansion

Then you never looked at the bigger picture for your character once armor storage was introduced. If you want to play Batman without the utility belt, that's your call.

I already told you that doesnt work for me, you gotta try harder to solve my inventory space situation.

Last I checked, SE has the right to tell you how to use your gear, lest we forget Brygid telling us to wear subligars and robes from the beginning so we could complete a quest.

If SE says you gotta wear pre-60 gear to get stuff from a BCNM, you'll do it with no complaints if you want stuff from it.

There's a difference between specific level aimed content and level caps nerf style.

Your arguement against artificial difficulty is artificial difficulty?

Gee, that's smart.

If what you really care about is challenge for yourself, and not about telling other people they gotta play your way, then yes. At least until SE agrees with you (and adds lvl caps to everything) it's the player's choice whether they want to fight at full capacity or handicap themselves for the sake of challenge.

[Legal Fish]

Re: New FFXI Expansion

If you can't live to part with some of your gear from level 75, maybe avoiding challenging capped fights is a good idea.

You can hate capped areas, but to say they are any less of a challenge because they cap you is ridiculous. For one, the game is most balanced at level 60... any PvPer can tell you this.

And they are quite necessary too. There is no other way to make a progressing storyline aimed for players of multiple level ranges without players just using high-level help to go through them.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: New FFXI Expansion

If you can't live to part with some of your gear from level 75, maybe avoiding challenging capped fights is a good idea.

You can hate capped areas, but to say they are any less of a challenge because they cap you is ridiculous. For one, the game is most balanced at level 60... any PvPer can tell you this.

And they are quite necessary too. There is no other way to make a progressing storyline aimed for players of multiple level ranges without players just using high-level help to go through them.

Exactly.

Leave missions uncapped and you have RoZ and ToA all over again.

Leave PvP uncapped and you have a farce, but leave it at 60 cap and you have a pretty sportsman-worthy PvP game on your hands.

I just don't find it hard to set up my jobs for level caps. RNG and COR have it easy on armor, i'll admit, but if you want to talk about level 75 inventory crunch I can more than compete with another other job. I think NIN and THF are COR and RNG's only inventory rivals. Not only are there the multiple accessories and armor pieces to macro in and out, theres all the opened and unopened quivers, pouchs, decks and toolbags. Multiple main hand weapons and stat/MP builds for any situation. I haven't even started working on my RNG's MND build yet. I can pretty much kiss levelling another job goodbye after that.

Yet, somehow I manage level caps.

My BST is much the same way, too. Ever since RNG I charted out all jobs I level with level caps in mind and keep gear so I'm always prepared to do them.

[Legal Fish]

Re: New FFXI Expansion

I think I'm going to go take a shower now.

[Kailea]

Re: New FFXI Expansion

The full sets of most gear are made to work together, so having the full set for a capped fight, is not "gimping" you all that much, it is why the sets where made to begin with.