Test: Double Attack during WS

[Armando]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

That's just you getting two normal hits during your WS animation. As for the lack of add'l effect text, I'm guessing it doesn't show up if the animation doesn't show up.

More Vorpal numbers are good but I think Rampage numbers would be more helpful. I'm interested in seeing if a 5-hit WS can DA 3 times.

[Richie]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

Other spells/hits show on the log even if the animation doesn't show. It doesn't make sense for the log to omit damage just because I was unable to see it's animation.

[Armando]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

No, Skillchain messages and animations can be lost due to gear swapping even though you can see the mob took the damage. Makes sense considering messages aren't shown in the chat log until the animation that goes with it finishes.

[Srxjo]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

has anyone done anything like this for THF's Triple Attack? if no i wish i was on PC to use a pasar (SP?) or w/e and help you do that one but saddly i'm on Xbox

[Armando]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.h...8;num=4;page=1
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.h...84382218009003

Those are the only threads I know of. You don't need a parser except to quickly confirm your crit rate and hit rate, anyways. I wrote down all TP and damage numbers on Notepad straight from the chat log; you could do the same with some pen and paper. Being able to screenshot the chat log is a big plus though.

I use a
/echo <tp>
/ws "Whatever" <t>
/wait 2
/echo <tp>
Macro to confirm my TP for the most part, but paying attention is still very important in case you get hit somewhere in between. Because of that, I also make a point of timing my WS right after a mob attacks me.

[Srxjo]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

i can use the laptop i am browsing the net on to record them, the only thing i would end up needing help on would be the maths (got a D in my GSCE the top i could get, but i mean explaining how to work it out as on the first page in the math part i see a ^ and think WTF) but anyway none of that is a problem untill i get the TP and damage, i'll start as soon as possible ^^

EDIT: o yea i forgot to ask what Dagger WS do you want me to use and do you want me to DW? (lol can't beleive i forgot to ask)

[Richie]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

I have my spell animations disappear all the time from gear swapping but never the text in my log.

Anyway.... I'm going to go test Vorpal blade.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

Armando, I think your idea that logs are connected to animation/special effect graphics is likely wrong.

Of course, the "extra hits" that Richie pointed out are not part of the WS. Not sure why the en-spell effects did not show up in logs, but it happens often enough on my RDM I just tend to ignore it.

[Lmnop]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

There are still bugs in the game that have plagued players since the beginning of time. Don't deny this.

Armando mentioned the skillchain thing. You equip swap, and it makes you lose either a) the skillchain in the chat lot OR b) the chat log info and the animation. Leaving you often with just a sound effect of the Skillchain. Additional effects often get split from their attacks, allowing other chat log lines to make their way inbetween. Also, isn't the Skillchain window tied to the WS animation, not the chat log?

If something that wrong can still occur, how far-fetched is it to think that En-spell data uses the same channels as Weapon Skills? I.e. an animation above and beyond Weapon Skills. This would probably happen with spells too, except you can't cast spells while WS'ing, the way you can time additional effects to go off. Note, I don't think you're actually losing that damage, server-side. You just don't get to see it.

Ok, whatever. I tried.

[Richie]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

Ok well this settles it. WS animations block en-spell dmg from the log.



In the red are my normal hits. Green is the WS + 2 hits. Only this time one of the hits occurred right as the animation was starting and one as the animation was ending. So the hit at the start couldn't have been from an extra hit in the WS.

And yea it is kinda lame how some of the same bugs that were annoying me 5 years ago when I originally played the game are still around now.

[Taskmage]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

At least that particular bug is pretty minor. I hope it's just not correctly displaying the damage being dealt but it's still actually doing it ... I always just assumed so.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

There are still bugs in the game that have plagued players since the beginning of time. Don't deny this.

/agree

Armando mentioned the skillchain thing. You equip swap, and it makes you lose either a) the skillchain in the chat lot OR b) the chat log info and the animation. Leaving you often with just a sound effect of the Skillchain. Additional effects often get split from their attacks, allowing other chat log lines to make their way inbetween.

I don't recall any example of losing WS or SC in chatlog, but for now let's say that's possible. (After all, I do lose the additional effects from time to time, and have seen them show up at the wrong places all the time.)

Also, isn't the Skillchain window tied to the WS animation, not the chat log?

Not sure what you mean by the Skillchain window; do you mean the period when the second WS must be used if SC is to happen? If so, I'd imagine that's controlled on the server, not the client, what shows up on your screen--graphic or log--is irrelevant.

Let's talk about data flow instead.

Think of FFXI client as a TV. TV receives audio and video signal from the station its currently tuned to, and decode the info to give the viewers pictures and sound. While the signal does contain both picture and sounds, the circuitry in the TV separate them first then process them separately.

For FFXI client, I'd imagine something similar is going on; data comes in, and the client separate out what info to display in the log window and what info to show as animation and graphic effects. They have the same source, but processed differently.

Of course, adulterating the source info would mess up both effects and logs, but there's no reason to suspect problem with effects would affect logs, since those are handled by separate subsystems.

Well, that's all guess work, but seems logical to me.

* * *

Random aside:
This is how an equipment swap (/equip) probably works:
1. Your client sent a command (slot) (item) to the server.
...
2. The server sent a notice that (slot) was changed to (item).
3. The client display in the log that an equipment was changed.
4. Your client does two checks, to see if the (slot) is "visible", and see if (item) differ from the currently item graphically.
4a. If "yes" and "yes", then your character "blinks" and new equipment graphic is swapped in.

Notes:
- Any number of things could've happened between #1 and #2; sending the command to change equipment has nothing to do with blinking of the character for graphic change--that's part of chain of events which only happens if the client receives a message from the server.
- #3 and #4 are not necessarily ordered or coupled together. There's no logical reason to believe they are. #3 can happen before/during #4, and vice versa.
- Whether #3 or #4 is done or done correctly, has no impact on the performance of your character. The only thing which matters is that the message send in #1 was received and processed correctly on the server side.

* * *

Edit:

I think I may have misunderstood what Armando meant, but too lazy to figure out what's going on at the moment.

Really wish S-E could devote a bit of resource to spruce up the log system a bit, though. heh.

[Armando]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

Itazura: What I meant is that the game always holds off on displaying text on the chat log when the action's animation finishes, not when it actually occurs. Because of that, it didn't seem far-fetched to me that the message wouldn't appear if the animation didn't appear. But then again if you do an action while the character is blinking, the text WILL appear (and immediately, at that.)

However, there's the SC glitch. I have witnessed it plenty of times. The first frames of the skillchain animation will appear, then it'll abruptly disappear along with the sound effects and the text never appears in the chat log, even though the mob still gets damaged. This doesn't seem to happen for everybody, or perhaps it requires a certain timing, but some people do get this consistently when using gear swapping macros on their WS. Perhaps Added Effects are similar to Skillchains in that if the animation disappears, so does the text?

Srxjo, if you could test Evisceration (that's 5 hits, right?) that'd be dandy. I take it you're RDM and not THF, and that you have a Brutal Earring to get DAs when going /NIN?

[Lmnop]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

I'm too lazy to butcher Itazura's post and respond to it in parts. Here comes some nonsensical rambling:

Think of the SC glitch like the casting glitch. You equip swap during spellcasts (any gear that makes you "blink") and it interrupts the animation. Cast Stoneskin, put on MND gear, stand still for 3 seconds looking like you're not doing anything. What's interesting is that other players see it too. I watch a WHM cast Raise, and since they equip swap something, they just stand still 'til the spell completes. I think that Skillchains (and apparently additional effects on normal swings) work the same way, except that for some reason, these 2 items have their chat log info tied to whatever module is taking care of the animation.

In my experience, the SC glitch typically appears when you equip swap during the WS animation. Since this is moments after hitting the macro, it often feels more like equip swapping after the WS causes it.

To your random aside: that reminds me of a worry. I have a macro that straps on my full enmity gear. I see the "equipment changed" lines spamming my chat log, but my character doesn't blink right away. How certain are we that the server receives the change upon seeing that message? Maybe the chat log line is generated client side, and I'm not actually getting the benefit until my character blinks (which is actually "redraw if needed." For instance, you don't blink for putting on giant type bracelets because your character isn't redrawn. I'm not certain, but I believe the same holds true for gear that looks exactly the same. E.g. changing level 7 leather highboots out for level 27 studded leather or whatever.) I guess it'd be smart to assume that redrawing is entirely based upon system performance client side, thus we'd be sure that rings and earrings are actually changing when we see the line. But then again, it'd explain why the chat log is so messed up if we could assume that it's generated entirely client side.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

I have my spell animations disappear all the time from gear swapping but never the text in my log.

Anyway.... I'm going to go test Vorpal blade.

I've been swapping gear for WSs for a long time (swap WS gear in before WS, swap back to TP gear afterwards), and I can tell you for a fact that I consistently lose the skillchain message if I happen to close a SC at the time.