Test: Double Attack during WS

[Celeal]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

Very nice Vorpal Blade, Armando
51 dmg for a normal swing is very good damage too, for tanking.

Once I am done with 9Dragons, I will definitely come back and try the more DD PLD style. It seems very interesting =)

[Armando]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

Thanks. That party was ridiculous. PLD WAR THF BRD WHM RDM. The WHM would Flash as often as possible and didn't overlap his Flashes with mine. I had Minuet and Madrigal on all the time, and I was eating Dorado Sushi. The WAR/NIN would Provoke and the THF would SATAWS at the beginning of every fight; after that I held hate with just Flash and damage. We had so much MP I didn't even cure myself because the RDM and WHM had it completely covered. I even tanked with Berserk up and we still had no downtime XD It got so ridiculous I had to use Holy at the end of every other fight to actually have something to do with my MP. All that, and I was still only taking about 1000 damage a fight even though I was getting hit for like 150 normally. I was at 95% hit rate on the lower level Erucas, and hardly dropped below 90%.

Just 1 level away from Save the Queen and Swift Blade

[Celeal]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

150 dmg in normal hit ~(O.o)~ ..... OUCH! (' A ')

Your party kicks butt ^^b

If you are one level away from Save the Queen and Swift Blade, I assume you are close to lvl 65? From level 66+ you may have a good chance for tanking Imps, Sea Puks, Hobgoblin/Dhamel (in Bibiki Bay). Both of my pld/war and nin/war tanked Imps at level 66... it was really stressful, those mobs are no jokes. My past few parties was very stressful: lack of healing/support, dangerous/annoying mobs, heavy DD output but lack of /nin, etc. I wish you good luck =P

[Armando]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

Oh man. If there were such a thing as a 6-hit Vorpal Blade, it would look something...

...like this...

With an unresisted skillchain to boot, and on my birthday no less (happy birthday to me!) I don't think I popped Berserk or Cover (I use Cover as a buff with Save the Queen) on that one, so it was pretty much Sushi and Minuet + Madrigal + my Haub/Woodsmans/R.G. Collar.

Edit: Oh, and thanks Celeal ^^

[Lmnop]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

Fucking A.

(can I say that?)

[Murphie]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

I'm going to say yes.

[Vandros]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

Very nice thread. I've been looking for something like this for a week or so, after getting a random Vorpal blade that returned 12 TP back with company sword. Normal 4 hit is 10 TP, and I was subbing war, so it was interesting to see it was indeed a 6 hit vorpal.

Thanks for the test!

[Armando]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

Bump. The last PDIF change has allowed me to identify number of crits in multi-hit WS, so I went ahead and did a bit of testing on Vorpal Blade to both check for double attacks and check for crit rate. Results:

Stats, etc

Lv.68 PLD/WAR
Targets: Lv.48-52 Demons (Xarcabard)
Weapon: T.M. Espadon +2 (DMG: 38)
Food: Meat Mithkabob (STR +5, Attack +22% (capped at 60))
Attack: 412 (normal) or 500 (Berserk)
STR: 72+13
Vorpal Blade 30% STR WSC: 21
PDIF range: 2.0-2.0 (capped at Attack/Defense > 2.33)
Hit rate: 95%

Side notes: I always had Berserk up when attacking Lv.49-52 Demons, as my normal Attack wasn't enough to get my PDIF fixed at 2.0 on them. I identified them though /check - only the Lv.48 Demons were Too Weak.

#) TP, TP return, Vorpal Damage --- Normal Damage* --- Crits
001) 110, 07, 350 --- 098 --- 1
002) 101, 09, 568 --- 100 --- 0
003) 106, 09, 560 --- 098 --- 0
004) 112, 09, 700 --- 098 --- 2
005) 102, 09, 560 --- 098 --- 0
006) 104, 09, 639 --- 100 --- 1
007) 106, 08, 420 --- 098 --- 0
008) 119, 10, 770 --- 098 --- 1
009) 110, 03, 490 --- 098 --- 1
010) 117, 09, 621 --- 096 --- 1
011) 117, 09, 630 --- 098 --- 1
012) 150, 09, 710 --- 100 --- 2
013) 133, 03, 490 --- 098 --- 1
014) 109, 09, 621 --- 096 --- 1
015) 108, 08, 497 --- 100 --- 1
016) 109, 09, 840 --- 098 --- 4
017) 108, 09, 621 --- 096 --- 1
018) 105, 09, 560 --- 098 --- 0
019) 104, 09, 560 --- 098 --- 0
020) 102, 09, 621 --- 096 --- 1
021) 100, 09, 630 --- 098 --- 1
022) 109, 09, 700 --- 098 --- 2
023) 129, 10, 828 --- 096 --- 2
024) 127, 09, 700 --- 098 --- 2
025) 102, 10, 770 --- 098 --- 1
026) 113, 10, 923 --- 100 --- 3
027) 111, 09, 630 --- 098 --- 1
028) 101, 08, 414 --- 096 --- 0
029) 139, 09, 560 --- 098 --- 0
030) 110, 09, 630 --- 098 --- 1
040) 100, 09, 710 --- 100 --- 2
041) 104, 09, 552 --- 096 --- 0
042) 106, 09, 700 --- 098 --- 2
043) 109, 09, 630 --- 098 --- 1
044) 127, 08, 490 --- 098 --- 1
045) 103, 10, 690 --- 096 --- 0
046) 105, 09, 630 --- 098 --- 1
047) 119, 09, 621 --- 096 --- 1
048) 105, 02, 347 --- 098 --- 1
049) 110, 08, 420 --- 098 --- 0
050) 113, 09, 630 --- 098 --- 1

Parsed Crit Rate: 5.96%
Vorpal Crit Rate @100 TP**: 30/118 = 25.42% (+20% crit rate)
# of perceived DAs: 5/41 = 12.2%

If every hit gets its own DA check, then there's a 29.16% chance of scoring a single DA. However, the odds of landing all 5 hits is only 77.38%, so we'd only see 22.56% of them. That's too far from the 12.2% DA rate I have. On the other hand, if we assume only two DAs can occur, there's an 18% chance of a single DA, and we'd only see 13.93% of them land. Much closer. Perhaps the number of DA checks in a WS is (# of hits - 2) or (# of hits / 2)? Someone would have to test with Rampage (preferrably Dual Wielded) or Hexa Strike to know for sure.

*Normal Damage/2 = (DMG + fSTR)
**I excluded all Vorpals in which I had more than 115 TP for the crit rate.

[Lmnop]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

Armando doesn't lose a moment to turn anything into an opportunity to test.

Nice find. Summary: +20% apparent crit rate on Vorpal Blade, oddly low double attack rate.

At risk of looking like an idiot as I lose understanding of your post as soon as I'm not reading it... the thing that bothers me about your final double attack thoughts: you've accounted for 1 double attack. But what about 1 miss + 2 double attacks looking like 1 double attack? I think you've already accounted for the possibility of a double attack occurring on a miss in your figures, but I don't see it in your final 5/50 thing. How do we know you aren't missing twice and getting a single double attack to compensate? Looks like a 3/4 vorpal.

...You're going to make me test Rampage, aren't you?

[Armando]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

Well, best-case scenario (every hit is getting its own chance to DA, which doesn't seem to be the case) then there's a 4.85% chance to get double DAs, but only 20% of those would miss a single hit, leaving you with sightly less than 1% of all Vorpals meeting those criteria. If we assume there's only two DA checks going on, then the odds are even smaller so we can just ignore them for the most part.

[Armando]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

Ok, I'm a freaking nitwit. I didn't do 50 Vorpals, I did 41. While going back and forth between FFXI and Notepad, I accidentally jumped from 30 to 40 and kept going. That means my perceived DA rate was 5/41 = 12.2%, which is closer than the theoretical 13.93% we'd see with only two chances to DA and a 95% hit rate. Correcting the previous post.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

Armando and Lmnop definitely earned those "Brains of Knowledge."

Personally, I like the fact that you guys pump us full of knowledge, even tho people just go to KI and BG and claim that those forums are the "nexus of info on FFXI."

-_-

Just ranting, please excuse my presumptuousness.

[Lmnop]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

029) 139, 09, 560 --- 098 --- 0
030) 110, 09, 630 --- 098 --- 1
040) 100, 09, 710 --- 100 --- 2
041) 104, 09, 552 --- 096 --- 0

Fail.

I'll try for this on Wednesday, unless I get sucked into CoP (Just the airship battle left and then I'm pretty much in the clear for Sea. Can't wait!). I'll hit the same demons. I'm not keen on dual wielding since the only axes I have that'll fit the bill are my vikings. wtg evasion-20.

I think I told you already, Armando, but my parser's broken. So that'll put a damper on parsing crit rate. I'll see what I can do, though. Also, in the spirit of laziness, I think I'll finally DL fraps and just SS all my WSs (with echoed tp before and after).

I'm hoping that by posting this stuff, I'll actually feel compelled to follow through.

One more thing: Let's say your 2-limit thing is correct. Isn't it entirely possible that Dual Wield would give an opportunity for a 3rd? I'll try for the 6 hit Rampages on Wednesday, and if need be, I'll single wield it another day.

[Armando]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

You failed to see it, so you fail too >_>

Rena, you give me too much credit. I have free time and curiosity, but without Saren's help I wouldn't have been able to interpret any results.

Lmnop, have you tried to uninstall and reinstall the parser? In any case, if you could at least screenshot the WS damage and normal damage that'd be great. As for Dual Wield, well, it's hard to say. We'd have to test a 5-hit WS with Dual Wield and a 6-hit WS without to see if there's any difference. For now, screw that.

By the way, you'll need 454 Attack to ensure your PDIF is capped at 2 on all demons. However, if you apply Acid Bolts you'll only need 396.

[Richie]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

I'm not sure how this applies to DA from warrior but this is what my Joyeuse does...



In the red is my WS (2 hit WS) with an additional 2 hits after that have no En-spell damage on them.

In the green is what one of my normal hits looks like.

It would appear that my Joyeuse is getting 1 extra hit off of each hit in the WS. This doesn't always happen, sometimes it's 1, sometimes it's none. I'm not wearing brutal earring or anything else that would give me DA.

I could do some testing with war sub and Vorpal Blade if you like...