Test: Double Attack during WS

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

I'd definitely like to believe that a 5-hit WS gets 3 DA checks. I'm now incredibly curious since I've switched from Sidewinder to Penta Thrust. I'll go record my results from an hour of farming Diatryma.

Lv75 Darter Information
When I was Lv72, the Lv75 Darters went from High Defense to Normal Defense at 315 attack. They went from Low Evasion to Normal Evasion at 312 accuracy.

Lv73 Character Information
Polearm Skill: 232
Store TP Trait: TP+25%

STR: 65 (Lv74)
DEX: 74 (Lv74)

Main: Engetsuto - DMG85 DLY480 ACC+2 TP+1%
Sub: Mythril Grip+1 - STR+2 ACC+2
Ammo: Tiphia Sting - ACC+2 ATK+2
Head: Empress Hairpin - DEX+3
Neck: Chivalrous Chain - STR+3 ACC+5 TP+1%
Earring 1: Minuet Earring - STR+1 DEX+1
Earring 2: Fowling Earrring - STR+1 ACC+3
Body: Haubergeon - STR+5 DEX+5 ACC+10 ATK+10
Hands: Hachiman Kote - STR+4 TP+8%
Ring 1: Spinel Ring - DEX+4
Ring 2: Spinel Ring - DEX+4
Back: Amemet Mantle - STR+1 ATK+10
Waist: Life Belt - ACC+10
Legs: Shinimusha Haidate - TP+6%
Feet: Hachiman Sune-ate - STR+2 TP+5% WS_ACC+2

Food: Meat Mithkabob
------------------------------------------
I'm sorry Armando, but I have some bad news

I only scored a 6-Hit Penta Thrust (Store TP also applies to extra hits). I feel really dumb. I had just never had so much attack against the lowest level of Darter. My previous highest Penta Thrust against these enemies was ~1.1k. Also the critical must have been a very good one (2.5 cRatio) and the counter was extremely crappy (1.0 cRatio) along with the Penta Thrust being a very good one (1.5 cRatio).

On a positive note, I learned that Store TP adds to the additional hits of multi-hit WS in the following manor:
First Hit TP * (1 + Store TP/100) + Additional Hit TP * (1 + Store TP/100) + ...

Engetsuto Penta Thrust TP Return Based on Store TP+46
Hit + 7 Hits = 18.9 + 1.4*7 = 28.7TP
Hit + 6 Hits = 18.9 + 1.4*6 = 27.3TP
Hit + 5 Hits = 18.9 + 1.4*5 = 25.9TP
Hit + 4 Hits = 18.9 + 1.4*4 = 24.5TP
Hit + 3 Hits = 18.9 + 1.4*3 = 23.1TP
Hit + 2 Hits = 18.9 + 1.4*2 = 21.7TP
Miss + 5 Hits = 0.0 + 1.4*5 = 7.0TP
Miss + 4 Hits = 0.0 + 1.4*4 = 5.6TP

Here is my data from 1 hour of killing Diatryma. I was using the gear listed above with Hasso and Haste and no food. Regular hits were in the high 100s to high 200s. Average damage for a Penta Thrust hit was 267.67.

DMG - TP
1329 - 24
1520 - 24
976 - 23
1136 - 23
1519 - 24
888 - 23
1235 - 24
1698 - 25
1301 - 24
1760 - 25
1459 - 24
1312 - 24
1186 - 23
998 - 23
1362 - 24
1413 - 24
1124 - 23
1497 - 24
1657 - 25
1240 - 24
1235 - 5
1200 - 24
1204 - 24
1389 - 24
1328 - 24
1285 - 24
1015 - 24
1038 - 23
1115 - 23
1366 - 24
1375 - 24
1429 - 24
1119 - 23
1252 - 23
1349 - 24
1172 - 5
1661 - 25
1234 - 24
1372 - 24
1305 - 24
1591 - 24
1366 - 24
1586 - 25
1317 - 24
1282 - 24
1375 - 24
1322 - 24
1477 - 25
1316 - 24
1285 - 24
1403 - 24
1322 - 24
1146 - 23
1461 - 24
1374 - 24
1270 - 24
1015 - 23
1306 - 24
1436 - 24
1319 - 24
1088 - 23
1426 - 24
1324 - 24
1590 - 25
1451 - 24
1065 - 23
1203 - 24
1346 - 24
1286 - 24
734 - 21
1117 - 5

I only got 71 samples this hour, so I'll come back and do this again. It was good farming anyway (~30k Gil). My DA rate looks to be 9.86%, which makes me feel more that Penta Thrust only gets 1 DA check plus an additional check up to 3 if the previous check is successful. I'll keep my eye out for a 7-Hit or 8-Hit Penta Thrust.

On another positive note, this also means that I only need Store TP+50 for a very reliable 5-Hit TP build (3-Hit Penta Thrust + 4 Regular Hits).

[Armando]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

I only scored a 6-Hit Penta Thrust (Store TP also applies to extra hits). I feel really dumb. I had just never had so much attack against the lowest level of Darter. My previous highest Penta Thrust against these enemies was ~1.1k. Also the critical must have been a very good one (2.5 cRatio) and the counter was extremely crappy (1.0 cRatio) along with the Penta Thrust being a very good one (1.5 cRatio).

On a positive note, I learned that Store TP adds to the additional hits of multi-hit WS in the following manor:
First Hit TP * (1 + Store TP/100) + Additional Hit TP * (1 + Store TP/100) + ...

Whoops. How stupid of me. I remember Lmnop and I found that out a couple of months ago because his Raging Rushes were consistently returning 1 more TP than they should. I guess I got too psyched about having a screenshot of an 8-hit Penta Thrust.

I only got 71 samples this hour, so I'll come back and do this again. It was good farming anyway (~30k Gil). My DA rate looks to be 9.86%, which makes me feel more that Penta Thrust only gets 1 DA check plus an additional check up to 3 if the previous check is successful. I'll keep my eye out for a 7-Hit or 8-Hit Penta Thrust.

Again, that would contradict the numbers that I got for Fast Blade (which were pretty dead-on compared to the predicted values thanks to the huge 200 WS sample size.) Still, as it stands now, your DA rate is right in the middle of 1 DA check and 2 DA checks. Think you could get more numbers?

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

I agree that we need many more samples, and I enjoy helping out. My next chance to do this again will likely be Saturday or Sunday. Sure would like to see a 7-hit Penta Thrust. Luckily the giant birds have just enough HP to WS and build 100TP before they die.

Could someone help me with how to use /check properly? I assume that when I use the /check method for determining enemy DEF and EVA I need to account for level correction to get its true DEF and EVA. For EVA, I believe I would just need to subtract 4 EVA for every level the enemy is higher, but do I do anything for DEF?

[Armando]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

No worries. I can only play on some weekends, so you're still better off than me (aside from the fact that I don't have a 5-hit WS yet.)

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

/cheer

Miss + 5-Hit Penta Thrust




I should have taken a screenshot of the 7-Hit Penta Thrust, but I immediately got hit afterward. However, I tested that I get exactly 3 TP when hit, so I could have just explained that. I'm sure I'll get an image of one soon enough.

Now including the data from this run, I'm showing a 16.15% DA rate on WS and a 0.52% double DA rate, so Penta Thrust must get 2 DA checks. Looks like I was wrong. This information makes Brutal Earring, Pole Strap, and Askar Korazin seem well worth using.

DMG - TP
1522 - 25
1392 - 24
1444 - 24
1338 - 24
1397 - 24
1129 - 24
962 - 23
1608 - 25
1318 - 24
1056 - 23
1475 - 25
1168 - 24
1394 - 24
1264 - 24
1012 - 5
1260 - 24
768 - 21
1326 - 24
1122 - 24
971 - 23
1164 - 23
1055 - 23
1517 - 25
1198 - 24
1372 - 24
1264 - 24
1153 - 24
1593 - 25
1636 - 25
1587 - 25
1312 - 24
1405 - 24
1092 - 23
1279 - 24
1723 - 25
1474 - 7
1535 - 24
1581 - 25
1619 - 24
1338 - 24
1440 - 24
1037 - 23
1103 - 5
1253 - 24
1118 - 23
1405 - 24
1503 - 24
1159 - 24
1930 - 27
1737 - 25
1198 - 23
1180 - 23
1836 - 25
1198 - 24
1488 - 24
1395 - 24
1539 - 24
1040 - 23
1471 - 25
1337 - 24
1290 - 24
1599 - 25
1315 - 24
853 - 21
902 - 5
1431 - 24
1760 - 25
1375 - 24
965 - 23
1125 - 24
1258 - 24
1311 - 7
1199 - 5
1030 - 23
1383 - 24
1213 - 24
983 - 23
1402 - 24
1130 - 24
1428 - 24
1124 - 23
1357 - 24
1385 - 24
1203 - 24
1390 - 24
1437 - 24
1486 - 24
1585 - 25
1562 - 24
1219 - 24
1715 - 25
1544 - 25
1370 - 24
1180 - 24
1352 - 24
1582 - 25
1424 - 24
1091 - 23
1545 - 25
1082 - 23
940 - 5
1450 - 24
965 - 23
1586 - 24
1115 - 23
1206 - 24
1500 - 24
1338 - 24
1218 - 24
1351 - 24
1137 - 24
1839 - 25
1276 - 24
1743 - 25
1316 - 24
1615 - 25
1503 - 24
1459 - 24
1066 - 23
1174 - 24
1167 - 24

[Armando]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

That's what I thought. Thanks a bunch, again. As for check...

Accuracy /check is based on the accuracy of weapon held in your Main slot

If your accuracy < Monster evasion-30 → High Evasion
If your accuracy ≥ Monster evasion+10 → Low evasion
Others → No evasion info displayed

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

Do I have to apply the level correction to get the actual evasion of the enemy though?

[Armando]

Re: Test: Double Attack during WS

Nope. /check gives you their raw stats. Of course that means it doesn't tell you you can still whiff a lot on that "Low Evasion" enemy that's a lot of levels higher than you.