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What would have been the correct way to fix MPK.

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  • What would have been the correct way to fix MPK.

    Awhile ago SE added the infamous MPK fix to FFXI. This fix was met with a lot of negative response(especially from Beastmasters). It did fix MPKing for the most part.

    What the fix was: When a monster travels outside it's "starting zone", it would disappear once it ran out players on it's hate list. Another version of that monster would reappear in the "starting zone". The time it would take for that monster to reappear made it seem the monster was walking back invisible. However, the monster was actually an entirely different one. This allowed NMs to be popped just by training them out and monsters to return with different strengths.

    Now, this fix crippled the usual BST strategy of exp, as it relied in the job abilities Charm and Release to get exp chains. Release now makes monsters disappear.

    Also with this fix, it is not uncommon for monsters to suddenly stop following a player after he has attacked it and disappear. This gives trouble to soloing RDM and BLMs and party pullers. If that wasn't bad enough, this rarely happens to players who are actually just running for their lives against these monsters, when they aggro.


    I think the SE's fix was poor. I think they could have done better. Better for BST, soloers, and people running from monsters. Here is how it should have been done:

    (Normal) Monsters have three "zones": Roaming zone, chasing zone, and disappearing zone. Notorious Monsters have only two zones, the first two. What happens when a monster is "Released" or loses aggro is different for each zone.

    When I say "loses aggro" I mean: all hate targets die/zone or when the player travels so far that it no longer follows.

    Roaming zone: This is the area where the monster can normally be found. It never naturally goes passed this area. Actually, it never even approaches the unnamed borders of this area.

    When a monster is Released or loses aggro: They simply begin moving around like normal, slowly regening their HP.

    Chasing zone: This area lays between the Roaming zone and Disappearing zone. It is quite massive and different for each monster. I'll list two ideal example sizes of this zone:

    All Tracker Antlions' chasing zone would be almost the entirety of the left side of Attowha Chasm's map. Their disappearing zone start right around the caves.

    A Goblin Butcher who lives in the first room of the Maze of Shakhrami, right by that first set of bones if you know what I'm taking about... his chasing zone would be roughly equal to that room and the tunnels that follow, but not another room.

    When a monster loses aggro or is Released in the chasing zone, it will stop for a couple of seconds(roughly 10 seconds) and wait there. Once that time has passed, it will start to make its way back to it's Roaming zone, slowly healing it's health. While it is walking through the Chasing zone, it will not aggro any player, even through linking. This is key.

    NMs still aggro while walking through their chasing zone(which is likely the entire zone).

    Disappearing zone: This is area consists of everything passed the Chasing zone. It is here monsters will usually stop chasing players. The zoneline of every zone is (perhaps, thinly-lined) a Disappearing for every monster.

    When chasing players through their Disappearing zone, monsters will slowly drop in Enmity. If the character had no Enmity in the first place(aggro'd the monster), this means that the monster will give up really quickly.

    When a monster loses aggro in the Disappearing zone, they are inactive for roughly 10 seconds(like above), then disappear, much like the current update.

    Normally, when monsters are released, they will do the same as described above. However, there is a way for a BST to keep them around. While under the effect of Reward's regen, monsters will act like they do in the Chasing zone while in the Disappearing zone, until the regen wears off. I have very little knowledge on the duration of this regen effect as is, but for the sake of this fix, let's say it is changed to roughly 1 to 3 minutes of regen, based on the potency of the food.

    Optionally, SE could add something like a third zone for NMs where they will not aggro while walking through. This will solve the problem of people training NMs to zonelines to grief players.



    With this fix, I'd no longer have a problem while soloing on BLM and BST can return to their old soloing techniques(which required much skill, so I'm not dumbing anything down here).
    Read my blog.
    ffxibrp.livejournal.com
    Currently: Entry #32, August 31/07.
    Entry 32: Death to Castro

  • #2
    Re: What would have been the correct way to fix MPK.

    This sounds like a very loaded question (specifically the thread title). Also, the earliest argument provided as support is rather exaggerative. I'm thinking this question will put SE in a defensive mode over their past decision rather than getting them to ponder any existing issues in a constructive manner.

    Now, this fix crippled the usual BST strategy of exp, as it relied in the job abilities Charm and Release to get exp chains.
    This is the part of the post which I found to be highly exaggerative. The fix changed the way BSTs have to operate when they solo, but it did not cripple it.

    I didn't even start playing BST until after the MPK change. I have since soloed my way to level 60. I have routinely gotten Chain #3 and some Chain #4s since hitting level 35 and gaining the Leave job ability. If this change had truly "crippled" BST, then I could not have accomplished what I have.
    Lyonheart
    lvl 75 WAR, 75 BST, 75 BLM, 75 NIN, 47 SCH
    Cooking 100.0+3+3, Culinarian's Signboard, Raw Fish Handling, Noodle Kneading, Patissier
    Fishing 60

    Lakiskline
    Bonecrafting 100.0+3+3,
    Leather 60+2, Woodworking 60, Alchemy 60
    Smithing 60, Clothcraft 55, Goldsmithing 54.1, Cooking 11
    Boneworker's Signboard, Bone Purification, Bone Ensorcellment, Filing, Lumberjack, Chainwork

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: What would have been the correct way to fix MPK.

      It wasn't even a question, it was a series of statements. It was telling SE what they should do.

      BSTs weren't crippled by the MPK patch, they just had to find a new method. I don't disagree with the intentions of the MPK patch, the depop time just needs to be altered to be a little longer, like 10 seconds longer, so we don't totally lose pets when we need to release them for a non-penalty kill.

      I wouldn't have soloed as far as I have with BST if the MPK patch had totally destroyed the job.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: What would have been the correct way to fix MPK.

        Errr. Why nothing but hostility? Would you guys be happier if he posted in the FFXI general discussion area? Maybe it is a "loaded question" but you still didn't give any response to it. Neither of you are looking at what he's suggesting. I think you're just trying to be contrary, in fact.

        ---------

        Yes, BST was made much stupider. Maybe it's still possible. But I still see Ninja and Blm soloing just as well. Blm are still soloing chain 12. And you?

        "Totally Destroyed" isn't even Puppetmaster. "Totally Destroyed" isn't even post-nerf RNG. "Up to par," Bst is not. Maybe they'd be incredibly potent in parties these days (I happen to think they can be), but no one plays bst to party with it. They just get crap for invites, and all the other BSTs call them "party bsts" with disdain.
        "And if he left off dreaming about you, where do you suppose you'd be?"

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        • #5
          Re: What would have been the correct way to fix MPK.

          Originally posted by Lmnop View Post
          Errr. Why nothing but hostility? Would you guys be happier if he posted in the FFXI general discussion area? Maybe it is a "loaded question" but you still didn't give any response to it. Neither of you are looking at what he's suggesting. I think you're just trying to be contrary, in fact.
          You're right, I didn't look at what he suggested. I don't think SE will either, just simply based on the tone of the title and first few paragraphs.

          I was trying to provide constructive feedback on the form of the OP, rather than the content. Think back to essay projects, and how they get critiqued. How a message is delivered is just as important as the message itself.
          Lyonheart
          lvl 75 WAR, 75 BST, 75 BLM, 75 NIN, 47 SCH
          Cooking 100.0+3+3, Culinarian's Signboard, Raw Fish Handling, Noodle Kneading, Patissier
          Fishing 60

          Lakiskline
          Bonecrafting 100.0+3+3,
          Leather 60+2, Woodworking 60, Alchemy 60
          Smithing 60, Clothcraft 55, Goldsmithing 54.1, Cooking 11
          Boneworker's Signboard, Bone Purification, Bone Ensorcellment, Filing, Lumberjack, Chainwork

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: What would have been the correct way to fix MPK.

            Originally posted by Lmnop View Post
            Errr. Why nothing but hostility? Would you guys be happier if he posted in the FFXI general discussion area? Maybe it is a "loaded question" but you still didn't give any response to it. Neither of you are looking at what he's suggesting. I think you're just trying to be contrary, in fact.
            Stating the facts isn't hostile, its valid criticism as the OP didn't post a question (as per the rules of this forum). Like it or not, the responses are valid. We don't need to add anything to the discussion as the issue has been discussed countless times and SE isn't likely to go back on their decision.

            For what its worth I did state that the despawn time just needs to be lengthened, that's really all BSTs take issue with. We don't disagree with the MPK patch in principle, just execution.

            Yes, BST was made much stupider. Maybe it's still possible. But I still see Ninja and Blm soloing just as well. Blm are still soloing chain 12. And you?
            NIN and BLM don't need pets from the immediate zone to solo EXP and NIN generally solo mobs weaker than what BST, BLM or even DRG go after for EXP. And I don't believe BLM can solo chain 12, at least not from what I've observed as BST and COR and I see them solo a lot as both. It would take a lot of Goblin/Mamool/Gigas BST pets to pull that off and they just don't get called back quick enough.

            no one plays bst to party with it. They just get crap for invites, and all the other BSTs call them "party bsts" with disdain.
            "BSTs play BST to solo" is a stereotype, we enjoy partying at times, too. We also enjoy the challenge of going it alone in zones that would make PT shriek in horror, like CoP zones or Ifrit's Cauldron. I don't think anyone who enjoys BST would want to play it so one-dimensionally. Duos are actually quite common for BSTs.

            I don't frown on PT BSTs, but I think they shouldn't play BST all the way via PTs or they'll never learn or forget how to solo properly. The job keeps changing as you go. I've only PTed for three levels and duoed maybe half of one level. I've never got an invite when I did seek, they were just random invites.

            The BSTs I look down on are the PLed BSTs that have a WHM or RDM tethered to them wherever they "solo." About one in five BSTs I see are actually soloing these days, the others are just dual boxing are begging friends to PL them, which is faking it. I know one BST that was PLed to 65 and partied the rest of the way. He's neither a good solo or PT BST if you approach it like that. Those BSTs play for the image of a soloist, nothing more.

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            • #7
              Re: What would have been the correct way to fix MPK.

              MPKing RMT was the best part about ffxi.

              fk yes

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: What would have been the correct way to fix MPK.

                To be honest, I'm not requesting advice on the style of my post. Why would I? Doesn't even matter. The reason I'm not making this much of a question is because I won't get an answer, so what is the point? When people ask SE questions, they are usually trying to get a point across. I'm just putting more effort in pushing that point.

                If you are going to criticize the OP, then criticize what I write, not how I write it. Seems to be just trolling otherwise. Let's not have any more discussion on "essay form" or ect... it's pointless.

                And to clarify, I didn't say it crippled BST soloing, I said it crippled the older strategies.
                Read my blog.
                ffxibrp.livejournal.com
                Currently: Entry #32, August 31/07.
                Entry 32: Death to Castro

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: What would have been the correct way to fix MPK.

                  Originally posted by Legal Fish View Post
                  The reason I'm not making this much of a question is because I won't get an answer, so what is the point? When people ask SE questions, they are usually trying to get a point across. I'm just putting more effort in pushing that point.
                  From the About this section of the Forums sticky:
                  Another point is, don't attack SE with undesirable comments, you can do that somewhere else, please don't do it here, keep insultuous posts out of this section for the FFXI communities sake and for FFXIOnline's sake.

                  Both the thread title and the OP has a very insulting tone. Given the way February's "Ask SE" questions have been submitted (detailed suggestions and player discussions linked, but not directly included), all SE would see is the thread title and maybe the exaggerative description of this issue.

                  Unless things are reworded, I highly doubt your question will even be submitted to SE. Even if it did make it to SE, if I were the SE rep reading it, I wouldn't bother checking the linked information. I would triage this under "customer who won't be happy regardless", and move on to questions where my time would be better spent. Which would render this thread completely pointless. Are you posting this thread merely to rant and vent, or do you actually want it to reach SE?
                  Lyonheart
                  lvl 75 WAR, 75 BST, 75 BLM, 75 NIN, 47 SCH
                  Cooking 100.0+3+3, Culinarian's Signboard, Raw Fish Handling, Noodle Kneading, Patissier
                  Fishing 60

                  Lakiskline
                  Bonecrafting 100.0+3+3,
                  Leather 60+2, Woodworking 60, Alchemy 60
                  Smithing 60, Clothcraft 55, Goldsmithing 54.1, Cooking 11
                  Boneworker's Signboard, Bone Purification, Bone Ensorcellment, Filing, Lumberjack, Chainwork

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: What would have been the correct way to fix MPK.

                    Insulting in what way? I doubt SE has that much of a soft skin. All I said was I think that they were wrong in what they did and could have done it much better. Are you saying SE is unable to admit their own faults? Or listen to constructive criticism? Now that would be insulting.

                    If enough people do bring a point across, it does effect SE. The RNG nerf was mostly reversed recently and now we are getting a windower.

                    Now stop it, Read the OP for it's content and comment about it if you'd like to post in this thread. Otherwise, you are just picking for a fight. You can choose the option to ignore this thread entirely if you simply don't care for it's topic. I actually suggest you do that.
                    Read my blog.
                    ffxibrp.livejournal.com
                    Currently: Entry #32, August 31/07.
                    Entry 32: Death to Castro

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