Idea: Mini-expansions

[Vyuru]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

On the one hand, I like this idea, it sounds interesting, on the other hand, it also sounds like a good way to nickel and dime the players, that I don't like so much.

On the subject of, if you don't want it don't buy it, you KNOW that SE will have something in there that you'll just have to have. What if they made some awesome piece of rare/ex gear? There are normally alot of good things in an expansion/update, I'm willing to bet that SE would split it up so that you'd have to buy all of the mini expansions to get all of the good stuff. Like others have said, this has the feel of nickel and diming the players.

Now of course, if say, 4 of these mini expansions gave the content of one normal expansion, and each one cost $30/4=$7 or so dollars, including tax, (rounded up) I wouldn't really have much of a problem, just so long as the dollar to content ratio was kept constant. And actually I think this could be a good way to add more content to the beginner towns and stuff, while one group of programmers works on new content, another group gets to flesh out the old content a bit.

Solutions to #2 is where we can really use S-E's creative energy. Help us level together--let higher level "cap" to a friend's lower level, without the stupid hat and the silly restriction of only able to level match one person in the entire FFXI world. Give additional incentives to the level matched people, too; earn some "Mog points" in addition to exp/merit points, which can be traded for fireworks or something fun.

I'd love this, it'd really allow alot of people to party in alot of different ways, and heck, it'd fix so many broken LS statics, and I could actually party with Zaethi on his thief again.

[Vyuru]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

To everyone that can't see the difference between a mini-expansion and an update after i've made it this clear, please do not even bother replying.

Oh I see the difference, but I'm willing to bet that the mini expansions will be a little bit more expensive due to packaging and tax, and as a whole, the price you pay in order to get the same amount of content as in a normal expansion will be higher.

And I have to lol at the people that say it's milking or gouging, considering you probably have at least one mule...

Yeah, one mule that to be honest, I don't use that much anymore. Scherazade was good for doing AH stuff in Jeuno while I still did alot of crafting, and before ToAU came out, now not so much.

I agree that FFXI definitely needs to support more inventory. The problem given is PS2 memory. I'm assuming this is in reference to memory to hold inventory open, since it obviously has memory to hold what takes 9GB on PC.

When you say memory do you mean hard disk space or do you mean RAM? At least I think it's RAM, not much of a computer person here >.>

My point being, if it's due to one of the above, can't SE just make some kind of memory upgrade for the PS2? I hear of alot of computer users who do things like that.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

Why should a job be completely unique though?

Players now often say "I love being ____!" That's the best reason for job differentiation--a sense of pride and uniqueness, leading to a sense of ownership and attachment.

I don't want that taken away from the players. ^_-

Ita makes a valid point about development though. Two different teams could potentially cause problems, especially since they'd be working on very different things. While I don't have much of an idea of how to get around this, I imagine SE would, given FFXIII...

That's "Itaz" or "Itazura" to you. -_- I'm not from "Italy"...

Actually, if two teams can be sure to work on completely separate stuff, it'd be "No problem!" Unfortunately, they have to overlap, and make changes and additions which directly affects each other. Even worse is when changes are made which indirectly affects another's team's work or how their code interacts with some legacy code... @_@

The most obvious answer to this is to drop support for PS2, BUT offer PS2 subscribers free coupons for he Vana'diel Collection discs or the FFXI for 360 disc. I highly doubt there's anyone still playing on PS2 that can't afford to spend 200-300$ for such a huge improvement to the game.

I think a buyout program would be nice!

For long members, let them purchase a pre-paid one or two year subscription, and get a coupon for hefty discount for xBox360 or some major brand name PC (customer's choice), and a free copy of Vana'diel Collection for either xBox360 or PC.

S-E can definitely afford it, and finance it easily--just take the revenue projections for FFXI to any bank.

The only major hole I see is moving PS2 player's settings (chat filter, font coloring, map markers, and macros), and that's something their software developers can fix easily if given a reasonable budget.

I highly doubt the database is a problem, and if it is, given how little space it probably takes to hold this stuff, SE could easily afford to upgrade enough that we all have 150 item inventories and 200 item mog houses. Of course, this leads to item abuse, but oh well, that's what Medication is for.

The problem may not be as simple a single database needing better host machine. There may issues on network load, latency, and more, from handling of additional data. It may even be possible that the current server-client protocol used need to be revised just to accommodate transmission of more item data in inventory.

Someone should put up a new thread asking S-E's post PS2 plans, to see what (if any) plans S-E has about retiring PS2 support and what opportunity it opens for FFXI if PS2 support is indeed dropped.

[Clever Ninja]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

Why should a job be completely unique though?

Wow did you really just say this? You want to take away job diversity just because a few tight asses don't want to pt without certain jobs present? Take your own advice and stop posting yourself, seriously. This comment is uncalled for.

And frankly you have no right to tell people that can't tell the difference between these mini expansions your proposing and normal updates to stop posting, so can the attitude and shut up yourself honestly, and maybe read what other people are saying rather than getting defensive cause some people disagree with your idea.

Your not proposing ANYTHING that regular updates or expansion releases are doing. At all. There are possibilities, but your not covering them to the point that it would benefit SE to do this aside from the NORMAL major updates we get every few months plus expansion releases. Jobs come with the expansions when several new areas are released in our current expansions, and we're STILL having balance issues. Why rush to get more out? To ruin the experience so SE can make a quick buck off something that can wait awhile, and be pieced together with major updates to make...ZOMG A FULL EXPANSION!?

While alot of the changes you and others have posted are nice/needed and would make excellent additions, none of them warrant mini-expansions to accomplish. The regular updates can handle them just fine, as BBQ has mentioned already. FFXI hasn't needed it since its release, and frankly with the way the playerbase is split up around the world, distributing these booster packs would be more trouble than its worth.

[Murphie]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

Well, the model that they are based of are a direct download for other MMOs. But since we have people playing on PS2, that would definitely be an issue. 360 could certainly handle a system like that, however.

Just a thought, folks. Maybe a little less vitriol, and a little more "Ok, I see what you're saying, but I disagree", perhaps? Hantz is good at disagreeing or agreeing, so he will sort this all out tomorrow. He's awesome.

[Vyuru]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

That's "Itaz" or "Itazura" to you. -_- I'm not from "Italy"...

FYI Feba, Itazura means mischiefious/prankster/trickster, Ita means board, or thing flat sheets of something or other. There is a bit of a difference, and then the is the similarity between Ita and Eta, which since Itazura is Japanese, she might be sensitive to that.

Wow did you really just say this? You want to take away job diversity

Reread his paragraph, he is saying that alot of jobs are performing the same functions, we are now being held back because of the lack a few certain jobs, namely Red Mage, Bard, and Corsair.

War/mnk can tank well, now war/sam and sam/war sound like both can work as viable tanks due to Seigan and Third Eye, we have just gained two more tanking job combos so we are not limited to just pld or nin as main tanks. Not only that, but these appear to be competent main tanks, not the pseudo trade off 2x war/nin tanks that most people go with.

By mixing jobs I'd assume that this would mean more subjob flexibility somehow, which I am in favor for. More ways to setup your subjob gives you more ways to be unique, and effective.

[Murphie]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

Ita is a completely arbitrary abbreviation of Itazura's longer name. People do that sort of thing all the time. There's really no need to get so rankled.

[Vyuru]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

Ita is a completely arbitrary abbreviation of Itazura's longer name. People do that sort of thing all the time. There's really no need to get so rankled.

While true, I'm just pointing out that the shortened form means something alltogether different than her name, and that in general it might not be wise to use shortened forms of foriegn words, since they could mean something else.

[Murphie]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

While true, I'm just pointing out that it's a pretty inconsequential detail to get worked up about. People shorten names in this game to one syllable all the time. If you want to avoid that, you give yourself a name that only has one syllable, or one that is so short that it can't be further shortened. Otherwise, you deal.

It's a forum handle, after all. You can call me anything you want here, so long as I know you're referring to me when I need to.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

lol. Thanks Vyuru.

It's sort of a running gag for me. I only "correct" someone when I actually like or care about the person (at least a little bit). I'm not all that worked up about it, so don't worry.

p.s. {Man} {cat}, and not Japanese. =^_^= "Itazura" is one nickname of my cat in real life--he's ... a real handful, at times.

[Murphie]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

See, I didn't think you were Japanese, but I didn't know for sure, so I wasn't about to say anything.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

People can complain about how few people play support classes. Right now, if I were to do a population check of Support classes on titan it would go like this

RDM: 220
BRD: 60
COR 15

And this is just about at any given time. About 75% of thos RDMs are 75, I'd say 40 of those BRDs are 75 as well. Most of both are usually AFK. 5 of the CORs are usually 60-75, the rest lower. Most of them AFK, but we're honestly the last of the three jobs to be sought out. I don't really have a problem with that since it only means I'm periodically spammed with tells. Sometimes its just to reset a two hour.

Were they to give a refresh or MP restoration ability to a new job, I wouldn't object to it, but i'd hope it would be different like it was with COR. Alchemist could perform such a function by whipping up ethers and dumping them on allies. But I don't think such a function should be done to the point jobs like COR, RDM or BRD are diminished. I think the function should be limited to a handful of classes to keep them unique.

RDM's Refresh is a solid 3 MP a tick ruled by duration
BRD's Balaads are AoE and return up to 3 MP when stacked for up to two minutes
COR's Evoker's Roll gives random returns on MP per tick and has a +hMP buff. All their buffs last five minutes.

I think there's a good balance there. A job like Alchemist could also do something different, but I don't know how much further I'd like to see it go. SAMs were not exactly happy when DRKs got Absorb-TP, they felt robbed of something that their job was supposed to be the king of - TP. SE did buff SAM in time as well and it remedied that issue.

But the point remains that you have to becareful about giving elments of existing jobs to current ones. I've heard lots of people say COR should have accuracy traits like RNG. I disagree because (1) COR is a support class and (2) giving COR Accuracy bonus traits would remove incentive to level RNG as a subjob. It would be like giving PLD or NIN Provoke natively, WAR would lose all value as a sub.

There are things that need to remain exclusive to a job to keep balance. Homoginizing classes is not the answer to current issues..

Want to give the world another support class? Level one yourself. I didn't pick up RDM because I wanted to, I picked it up because my static couldn't find a good, reliable one. Set back my DRG, sure, but its more proactive than complaining about the lack of people playing those jobs.

There's not much SE can do to make them more attractive. RDM is never turned away and is a highly soloable job. BRD has the strongest melee buffs out there, its mindlessly adored by other players. COR has very resepctable melee buffs, superior mage buff and gets to enjoy melee action.

If lack of PT melee for BRD or RDM is an issue, the other elements more than make up for it. COR's expense is off-putting, but not much moreso than NIN or RNG and there are lots of NINs out there that don't seem to have the problem paying to tank (though coming from EQ, I find tanking as a charity to be very strange, but one FFXI forces you to accept). But if you can't afford the job, though luck.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

To everyone that can't see the difference between a mini-expansion and an update after i've made it this clear, please do not even bother replying.

Boy, oh boy. A BIG update is still an update. It's SE own choice to not to add new areas through updates and those are the only thing we haven't gotten from updates. Hell, expansions are practically just there to add a fee to allow players to get more stuff with their updates.

Anyway, I think it's quite obvious that paying SE more money doesn't do so much, since it appears most of their constraints are time-based, not money-based. Paying them an extra 10 dollars for an update isn't going to get them to do much faster. For example, the more stuff they add, the more they have to translate from Japanese into 3 other languages.

Overall, I'd say the idea is dumb. At it's highest potential, it's just not necessary, at least for the things you mentioned. In fact, this all seems like some kind of pointless vessel for new jobs, which beyond maybe 2 or 3, are really not even wanted. The more jobs you add, the more there needs to be balanced.

Now, if SE were to add something like a "mini-expansion" which would be only available to PC and Xbox360 users that replaced the older skins of old zones with skins that matched the quality of ToAU zones... maybe along side with some music if they were nice... that would be a good optional thing to have around, even if they charged for it. They could do this with an update too, but I'd imagine, there are a small minority of PC users who builds are very weak and the change wouldn't be wanted.


Speaking of Support Classes, it has a lot to do with the lack of good design that can be done without new jobs. If they had Enchantment items and medicine that could mimic song effects(Minuet, March, and Ballad), key is Enchantment items... if Refresh was broken down to two spells: a level 20-range 1/tick and the current level 41 3/tick... If SMN had weak a Refreshing BP... ect, you get the point.

[PTT]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. That is why this will not work. Remember Horse Armor?

It's too easy to overcharge premiums on minor updates. People raised up a huge stink all over the internet when that stuff started appearing. $2 for two horse skins? Another for a single wizard's tower dwelling?

I believe they ended up putting all the previous singular content in the expansion, which is what most players want. Players will do the math, I think. If you pay $30-50 for 20-80 hours of gameplay (I'm guesstimating on RPG average length), and along comes something you'll get roughly 20 minutes of enjoyment out of for $2, that's totally not worth it.

Then there's the haves and the have nots. I have more spendable income, look at me, I got the Super-Warlock job with the limited edition customized armor with my face on the back of the cape that also gives me a permanent +1 bonus to everything and increases my run speed by 3 percent. All the peoples who maybe can't spare overhead income to purchase this will just be out of luck, while everyone else is blasting fireballs out their nose at the enemy's weak point for massive damage.

The subscription fee should be enough to entitle you to anything that anyone else is capable of getting and receiving. Otherwise, only the richest players would be the most flexible/invited.

I see no problems with expansion packs as they are. They're large, they feel complete by allowing the game-maker to tie everything into each other, and they inject fun/excitement/new life into the game.

and as other people previously mentioned, we're also receiving periodical new content anyway already (Missions/Quests/Items), for free, already.

[Nazo]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

I highly doubt there's anyone still playing on PS2 that can't afford to spend 200-300$ for such a huge improvement to the game.

Are you serious? I don't know what kind of world you live in but there's no way I'd pay $200-$300 just to upgrade a game I can already play perfectly well regardless of whether I could afford to or not. Add in to that the fact that Japan hates anything Xbox and a good proportion of JP players probably play on PS2 and you're killing FFXI off right there.

I'm sure SE has considered its update schedule carefully and releases expansions as infrequently as it does for a reason. Consider how long ToAU has been out and that still seems a long way from finished, adding expansions more frequently would be chaotic even if they were smaller. Add to that the increased fragmentation of the community you'd get and I just don't see it as a good idea.