Idea: Mini-expansions

[Clever Ninja]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

The amount of people that play SWG before and after the update is vastly different, if I remember that site with the graphs I'd link it. The update basically disregarded all teh long time members in favor of trying to attempt to bring in new members who would like the game if it was easy.

And Feba your story comment was in regards to backstory for the new jobs added in these packs, that's not what I'm referring to. I'm regerring to just actual storylines, like possible a Orc uprising that you need to fight through in Sandy, helping a traveling warrior walk through a cave to reach some objective, stuff to make the player more involved with the world's storyline, similar to how the missions we already have accomplish.

And frankly Murphie, missing out on content because you won't spring on an adventure pack is something I'm against IMO, I'm not fond of all these microtransactions similarly to lyonheart. I already paid for the discs to create my account, I pay a monthly fee for server upkeep and product updates, and I buy expansions whenever they're released. Now I have to pay for updates that SHOULD be included in all that? It's ridiculous, honestly.

[Murphie]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

That's why it's optional. If you feel like you have to have it, then you have to consider if the cost is worth the benefit. If it's not, then you don't buy. It's really pretty simple.

And it's more than the sort of thing that you'd get in a regular update, but less than a full expansion, plus it's released on a more frequent schedule. I don't understand the confusion.

Anyway, as I've already said, I think it's a neat idea, but it's not something that the game desperately needs. However, if it were implemented, I'd be all over it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

That's not really the same thing. An adventure pack is like, a cross between an expansion and an update. Generally they add new areas, and sometimes new jobs or gear.

The problem with the idea is that you don't have to buy it, which means its actually more frustrating to do content with other players that didn't bother to get it. Ever have to suffer the player who didn't get ToA or CoP expansions? Its annoy as hell.

[Feba]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

And i'm not saying they couldn't add story packs like that. I am saying that there is plenty of room to add very deep storylines. People such as myself who do a bunch of quests will agree, some of the job quests are very very beautiful. Same with AF. Not to mention there's no reason why the backstory of the job won't explain more about the countries. Think about how much of Windurst's backstory SMN explains, or San'd and DRG to a lesser extent.

And that's exactly the point, again, this is not to lock content AWAY from people, it's to make additional content availble TO people. All the stuff you'd normally get in an expansion or update is there. It's not like you have to buy a pack to use that hat you bought yesterday. Only if you're interested in that job/area/story

Basically, it's a way to get extra money to provide extra content, without having to slow down the new content we already are expecting and loving.

[Clever Ninja]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

Anybody else find omgwtfbbq's disclaimer kind of ironic?

P.S. Campus keyboards suck, so many typos ;_;.

[Murphie]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

Annoying. But no, I've never had to.

So don't do the content with those people. Do it with people who have bought it.

edit: Damn, too late. I should just quote more often.

[Feba]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

Again, these would be things that would be PURELY FOR THOSE INTERESTED. It's not like they'd be full expansions that you HAVE to have to EXP or such. yes, a new area might be popular for EXP, but if that happens, then chances are most everyone would have already bought it anyway

If something were added such as missions, obviously those interested in the missions would buy the pack, and those not interested wouldn't get in the way.

[Wise Donkey]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

My only beef with this kind of system being introduced to FFXI is that it would feel to me like we were getting charged for the updates we are currently getting for free. Granted it is all an extension of the Expansion pack - if you don't have that you are not getting anything, but I would still feel like I was being gouged.

[Feba]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

....again, this isn't for regular updates. This is for the sort of content you'd usually PAY FOR ALREADY in an expansion, just on a much smaller scale.

Even when ROTZ came out, I don't think there was anything like this for free, except being able to unlock SMN without buying it (although you still had to buy it for avatars and AF and such), and Behemoth's dom (but you PROBABLY need ROTZ for attestions anyway)

Since then, I can't think of a single time when an update has added a job OR an area which wasn't part of or planned to be part of an expansion (in COP, I beleive that Limbus was added, BUT their original names were Lower Promyvion and Tower of somethingorother, and I beleive the tower is actually mentioned at some point in the script of COP), which is exactly what i'm talking about. Miniexpansions, NOT paid updates.

And again, if you don't want the content, you don't pay for it, and it has no maleffect on you, except being unable to get the job!

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

Just seems like pointless filler content when you consider what's added every two months to this game. There's already plenty of optional content "only for those interested." Endgame isn't mandatory content by any stretch of the imagination and there's plenty outside of it to do and plenty added with each update.

That new assault zone is going to keep me tied up for months. Savlage came last time and that draws people in. So does Dynamis, Limbus - this is all optional content. And new quests are added for the lower and intermediate players. You have things like Brenner and Ballista in addtion to future PvP content.

All EQs dungeon discs are is content they could have saved for a real expansion, except the saved it to milk more money out of players. I'd rather have complete expansions with regular content updates than know SE is shorting me on real content.

I'm sure SE still shelves content for other expansions, but two years of content we get from one expansion is pretty good. And WoW pretty much has it the same way. Expansions are rare, but updates are events to that game as well.

Mini-expansions "for those that are interested" just seem like pointless milking.

[eticket109]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

Good idea in theory but I can't see any way SE could pull it off without fucking it up somehow.

[Wise Donkey]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

I have to say I agree with BBQ on this. I would much rather get it in one lump with a big every-2-year expansion, then pay for bits and pieces every few months.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

I would say the idea has appeals, but I'm against it due to the additional complexity it adds to the development cycle. In essence, it's telling S-E to go on a dual track system, with one team producing large expansions, and another team produce small expansions.

That kind of production system works when the system is modular and orthogonal--but FFXI needs a high degree of integration to maintain its feel as a single game.

Also, while new jobs would certainly spur more leveling (for a while), but in the long term it's very difficult to add substantial number of new jobs without running into homogenization. Already, we broadly classify the jobs into "tank", "support", "healer", and the default bin--"DD". Adding more jobs makes each job less distinctive.

Plus, I think there are other ways to address your primary concern:

When I was reading a thread on leveling problems, I was thinking, what's the best way to get people to want to level?

Despite all the complaints about Valkrum Dunes and Qufim, I think the player base on the whole enjoys leveling. Most members in my LS with Lv.75 jobs are leveling other jobs past the Lv.37 threshold, in fact.

So, what keeps the ranks of lower and mid level of party seekers so thin, aside from lack of new jobs? Several I can think of:
1. Switching gears from one job to another is a major pain. (40min+ for me, lol.)
2. Partying with people you know and like is more enjoyable than seeking out random pickup groups. (My LS, small as it is, has three static exp parties.) However, it requires matching levels, which is difficult at times.
3. FFXI isn't drawing in significant number of new players.


Solutions to #1 is obvious: A) Reduce muling (i.e. more item spaces), B) speed up moving items between various Mog House item storage and inventory (via mechanisms like the "Item Set" idea I proposed in another thread).

Solutions to #3 is nearly as obvious but difficult for mostly financial reasons--major revamp of the game visuals, expand to new platforms (Macintosh, Linux, Wii), large advertisement campaigns, make it possible to log on from two or more characters from same account (for additional fee) to promote family play, and etc.. I consider each of these unlikely, and together basically impossible.

Solutions to #2 is where we can really use S-E's creative energy. Help us level together--let higher level "cap" to a friend's lower level, without the stupid hat and the silly restriction of only able to level match one person in the entire FFXI world. Give additional incentives to the level matched people, too; earn some "Mog points" in addition to exp/merit points, which can be traded for fireworks or something fun.

Make creating an alternate character for leveling more enticing--stop charging people for the first two or three extra characters--chances are, most of us will take advantage of that by creating two or three extra character, so the impact to the bottom line will be slim.

I'm sure S-E can come up with more and better ideas. However, no one knows whether the company thinks the lack of players at low and mid levels is a high priority problem or not. Creating a huge world filled with a lot stuff means there are always plenty of things need fixing...

[Legal Fish]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

I don't see the point at all. We get bi-monthly updates and most of those are mini-expansions.

Plus, new jobs = ew.

[Feba]

Re: Idea: Mini-expansions

Why should a job be completely unique though? We're already getting to the point where a lot of jobs are starting to merge. That's a problem when making a party, when you have to wait on a specific job. How many of you have had to disband a PT because your mages REFUSED to go without a BRD or COR? How many have refused because there's not even a WAR out to tank? Mixing jobs gives more possibilities, and thus easier parties.

And the main point of this is not to make people want to level, so much as provide new content on a regular basis to keep people interested in the first place.

To everyone that can't see the difference between a mini-expansion and an update after i've made it this clear, please do not even bother replying.


Ita makes a valid point about development though. Two different teams could potentially cause problems, especially since they'd be working on very different things. While I don't have much of an idea of how to get around this, I imagine SE would, given FFXIII...

I agree that FFXI definitely needs to support more inventory. The problem given is PS2 memory. I'm assuming this is in reference to memory to hold inventory open, since it obviously has memory to hold what takes 9GB on PC.

The most obvious answer to this is to drop support for PS2, BUT offer PS2 subscribers free coupons for he Vana'diel Collection discs or the FFXI for 360 disc. I highly doubt there's anyone still playing on PS2 that can't afford to spend 200-300$ for such a huge improvement to the game. I highly doubt the database is a problem, and if it is, given how little space it probably takes to hold this stuff, SE could easily afford to upgrade enough that we all have 150 item inventories and 200 item mog houses. Of course, this leads to item abuse, but oh well, that's what Medication is for.

And I have to lol at the people that say it's milking or gouging, considering you probably have at least one mule...