Duo - An army of two

[Aksannyi]

Re: Duo - An army of two

Let me just add on to Karin's post there, and mention what my husband and I do whenever we decide to duo together.

At first, we tried this thing where I would attack the mob and then he'd SATA for some extra damage, but that ended up making me lose WAY too much HP all at once, so we nixed that really quickly. Don't even bother with that. He'd continue to SA, but he saved TA for parties with an actual tank.

I kept the usual buffs and debuffs up - highest protect and shell for both of us, refresh for both of us, haste for him absolutely, and sometimes for me if I felt like I had the MP. Debuffs - Dia II, Paralyze, Slow were my responsibility, and I'd let Tauro throw in a Blind or a Poison because hey, DRKs need to skill up Enfeebling Magic, too.

We would both engage the mob. There was no reason for me to be a {Back line job.} when there was only two of us, and my sword skill is reasonably high enough for me to hit quite well. As a melee, of course, I tried to remember to keep an En-spell up, particularly the one that the mob we are fighting is weak to, for maximum damage.

Nuking was something we both would do, although his lower-tier nukes weren't doing a lot, but hey, he was getting Elemental skillups, too, so all was not lost. I was conservative on the nukes just based on the "OMG WHAT IF" factor. (OMG WHAT IF I NEED A LOT OF MP FOR CURING?!?!)

ABS-Spells are awesome. Any DRK who has these spells and does not use them is a sucky DRK, unless specific circumstances dictate otherwise. Tauro would use them quite frequently. We worked well together as a team, because I could easily handle keeping up buffs for the both of us, including the all-important Refresh. Drainable and Aspirable mobs are a MUST if you're going to duo as DRK. Also RDM/BLM can make use of these two wonderful spells, and I did, as often as I could spam them.

He is also rather adept at using Stun, which is a nice way to keep from getting smacked with a WS from time to time.

We could probably fight two to three mobs without resting if we timed it right and managed our MP right. Fighting against Toughs is a long battle for two people at our level (63-ish last time we duo'ed together), so the Convert timer would be back up after a few fights. As long as we were doing well with both our MP and HP, we could have fought virtually forever, however, I liked to rest after a few fights just to be on the safe side. You never know when you're going to steal hate just at the moment of Convert.

Duoing is tough. If one of you dies, you're pretty much both dead, unless your RDM Chainspell + Warps the hell out of dodge. If you have a partner you trust and you are both skilled at your job, there's no reason you should die, though. Tauro only died once while we were duoing, and it was because I disconnected mid-battle. X.X

Okay, so this is a VERY long post, but I just wanted to give insight into what kind of things work really well for DRK and RDM to duo together, since I've done it many times, and quite successfully. I think the XP was like 60-ish per mob, which isn't a lot, but when you figure in the difficulty of soloing a DC for that much experience, it definitely makes more sense to duo a Tough with a good friend.

Well, at any rate, if you decide that DRK and RDM are your duo, good luck, and you can always hit me up via PM if you've got some questions about it.

[Clever Ninja]

Re: Duo - An army of two

Just curious aksannyi, at that level what was your exp per hour? As my sig depicts, i'm not high enough to really know how soloing works as you go higher.

On my Hume I've actually been able to solo quite well on my RDM/WHM so far. Granted its not as good as party xp, but when your in the Dunes and almost EVERY party looking for members is basically retarded and wants to pul IT++ only and rest every fight, I'll take the slower xp and just solo in the highlands. Although now I'm basically sticking to EP -> DC, I was able to fight Even Matches relatively easy from 14-18 without curing much once I stacked all my enfeebs on. Soloing is alot of fun and a relaxing break from the tensions of party, which are present in all the lower level zones now apparently -_-.

What sucks even more is its not easy to try and set duo/trios up since so many people just want to party all the time, even if it means 1 hour+ downtimes in the process ;_;.

[Theyaden]

Re: Duo - An army of two

What sucks even more is its not easy to try and set duo/trios up since so many people just want to party all the time, even if it means 1 hour+ downtimes in the process ;_;.

Generally that is because pting is faster and more efficient. Not to mention more margin for error. The advantage of solo or duo is less people you have to put up with, but at the cost of higher downtime. With both a duo and a traditional party you shouldn't be face down very often asuming in both cases that the people involved are reasonably competent. (parties and duo partners have equal affliction for people needing to learn). The difference is a full party has more slack for error than a duo. You have 6 emergency 2hours along with other abilites if things get tight vs 2 as well as 6 people to draw on for advise/critism. Usually a pt downtime is when a replacement is needed but the kill speed is enough to make it up after a couple fights.

In some cases I will solo some things or even partner up instead of just sitting, but I prefer the full pt setup. Conversation I've found varies more on the people involved there are more people to talk to in a traditional pt but in any evemnt it's hit or miss being able to chat while xping.

[Clever Ninja]

Re: Duo - An army of two

While I do agree, I'm referring to situations where getting a pt is nigh impossible, but I know people who will either Disband and wait for a invite themselves or just sit around in the party, replacing those who leave after an hour long wait rather than either A) go crafting, B) go level another ob or C) solo/duo/trio/farm whatever.

A prime example is this weekend, where trying to level my RDM in Qufim was practically not gonna happen cause the whole area plus Lower Delfukk's Tower was overcamped. I suggested to a new player who I was seeking with that we should probably hit up the Dunes to get some xp until the pt started then warp back, and was quickly answered with a 'lol no thanks noob i'm not BST'. After an hour of standing around in Jeuno doing nothing mind you. Needless to say 10 minutes after he got 'tired of waiting', left the party and I still saw him seeking in Jeuno 2 hours later when my party was looking for replacements. Needless to say I skipped him over.

So while yes, party xp is superior, we could have xp'd in the Dunes for nearly an hour before the party leader finally found a tank, and little xp is certainly better than no xp at all.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Duo - An army of two

Well to be honest with you, I couldn't tell you what our xp/hour was. I never really took track of it. It was more of a "Well, we're not going to party tonight but we want to do something so let's join up and whack on some T's for a bit," kind of thing.

It wasn't very high, I don't think, but I can't even begin to estimate what it was. There's a plugin on windower that lets you see that, isn't there? I don't even use the windower function so I'd have to do the math myself. {No thanks.}

[Effedup]

Re: Duo - An army of two

I'm far from a veteran in FFXI (only been playing a year, and my high job is 33.5 MNK), but at lower levels duoing seemed just fine to me. Me and an ls-mate pretty much duo all new jobs to 16 in La Theine...after about 14 it gets slow, but with /whm and proper foods there isn't too much downtime. Once we hit 16, we generally pick up another ls-mate and trio from there. We're not trying to duo or trio to 75, mind you, but if I can avoid the Dune's at the cost of a little time, I'm all for it. An hour spent killing mobs for 15 XP a piece is much more fun for me than spending an hour sitting in selbina with my flag up.

Like has already been said, BST is a soloable job, and BST duo's rule. We're only 10 with our BST's, but the few times we've played was pretty fun. We've been off it for a month (been focused on mining lately, hitting the point where my next level MNK gear is going to cost me a frigging fortune, so I need the gil), but if you wanna duo, BST is definitely the way to go.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Duo - An army of two

I'd suggest picking a duo combo that will not only work decently with just you two, but will also fit into a traditional 6 man party. If you go BST/NIN + BST/WHM, you will probably be forced to duo, pretty much eliminating any chance to form pick up parties around your duo (which you might want to do just for a change of pace).

If you pick a duo like BLU + SMN, or NIN + RDM, you keep the option open to do 6 man pick up parties without too much of a hassle.

[Omni]

Re: Duo - An army of two

P.S. Omni's scenario is so contrived it's silly. Not only are the hypothetical characters using a particularly bad duo setup (two primary DD), but in addition to that neither of them bothered to sub whm, even the drk who already has a manapool? And given that they have no whm or /whm they don't bring antidotes to fight poison spamming mobs? And even *then* he has to invent unwanted aggro for them to make it come out really bad. Like any duo is going to make it to 48 without at least one of them knowing how to select camp spots and pull.

let's look at the OP:

Cool titles aside, my question is what are great two man teams?
neither of us want to be beast master and he wants to be a dark knight.
what goes with dark knight as a duo? (he will sub thief to put hate on me).
Btw i dont want to be a paladin.

sure let's sub whm to make this a bit more viable for you. lets take a look at some general numbers now:

a hume drk/whm has 806hp/256mp at 48 with no equip. a mnk/whm has 963hp/91mp with no equip. however, the OP stated his buddy wants to play drk and SATA hate onto him. (even if he didnt use /thf, and used /whm) the drk would have 5 Cure III's at his disposal before mp ran out. the mnk would have almost 2 Cure IIIs (let's just say 2 for good measure). it's pretty scarce on the mp dont you say? the point of the example was to show that this game is not a solo minded game. you have to be built to solo. the feeling i get from the OP is that he would like to take whichever job and go solo/duo XP as you would in other games. this example was to tell you, no, that sort of thing doesnt work.

lets go with aksannyi's setup. a rdm+drk duo. a much better combo for survivabilty for sure. you have a stronger set up in terms of dealing with those 'oh crap' moments as well as mp refresh/downtime. she said that she can go 2-3 without rest for 60 xp each. thats 180 xp in about 10min right? you'll need close to 6.5 hrs to get 7000 xp. if you die and (re)raise you'll lose 420xp (for a tnl of 7000xp). every time you die, you put yourself back about 20minutes or so. there's a lot that go wrong in 6.5 hrs and this is given the fact that you dont have competition, deaths or any other hiccups. it's awesome that aksannyi duos with her husband but even as she said, its something to kill time while staying productive. its not something to do full time to 75.

The thing is, its not that people dont know how to pull at lv. 48, ya for the most part people do fine but for a second try to imagine a scenario where you do get aggro. you know people do get aggro even at 75 right? have you been aggro free ever since you've played past 30? no i doubt it. the point of the scenario is: shit happens.

if you want to tell me that you can solo/duo and not have anything unfortunate happen then you are absolutely delusional.

these sorts of things wear down a bst trying to solo/duo their xp, how much more severe and impacting do you think itll be for any other non-solo minded job?

This story is more typical of how people who have never been outside a 6-person party try to duo without thinking about how they should change their tactics for the situation of having to provide their own tanking, healing and pulling.

would this include yourself? it's not meant to be rude however, i'm sure you've tried to solo/duo with your drg from the stance you're taking on this topic right? i've solo/duo'd my bst to 61 and no matter how careful i am and how good your camp is, you die. it wears you down. it burns you out. theres no denying that and to say it's not a race or dont let anyone tell you that you cant duo for xp is simply naive let alone misleading.

[Karinya]

Re: Duo - An army of two

I have, in fact, soloed DRG (although not exclusively). And every time I died I could clearly identify how I had screwed up (usually camping in the wrong place) and how to fix it. Deaths don't just "happen".

Well, I guess you could say that the time sanction wore in the middle of a fight wasn't exactly me screwing up, because there's no way to see before pulling how much time you have left on it. But that was a freak occurrence - sanction lasts hours - and most jobs aren't as reliant on sanction refresh as solo drg/mage anyway. (And even then, if I had had one yagudo drink - hell, even a pineapple juice - with me I would easily have survived.)

I'm pretty sure that the last time I got unwanted aggro was while soloing my Ru'Hmet map. It's really not hard to avoid aggro from non-TS mobs when you're not fighting, but those Zdeis are a bitch. (DRK and anything can do the sleep and log out trick too if they have to, in many cases.)

The time before that was a link from Marsh Murres west of Nashmau, caused by camping out in the middle of their wandering around area; since I shifted camp to the NPC at Alzadaal Ruins entrance zone, it hasn't happened again.

If you're dying more than once every 2-3 hours soloing on BST, I have to wonder if maybe it isn't such a great soloing job after all...


As for the hypothetical drk and mnk again... you conveniently put them just below the level of Parade Gorget, but there's no law preventing them from using juice for crunch situations, or having some MP gear, or even one of them using a club for Moonlight (although this definitely has some downsides, I don't know off the top of my head if it would end up being worthwhile or not.) Their ungeared MP is already enough to heal a total of 1400ish HP (not counting Regens or the DRK's Drain) - that's a lot of hits from EM-Ts. And they definitely won't be spending 5 minutes resting their HP as you suggested, or dying of poison.

I don't think anyone is claiming that you can duo for fast and trouble free exp. Certainly I'm not. But you can duo for some exp, if you know what you're doing and are careful. If that's what you enjoy, go ahead. Unrealistically high expectations aren't good, but neither are unrealistically low ones.

[Spiritbear]

Re: Duo - An army of two

would this include yourself? it's not meant to be rude however, i'm sure you've tried to solo/duo with your drg from the stance you're taking on this topic right? i've solo/duo'd my bst to 61 and no matter how careful i am and how good your camp is, you die. it wears you down. it burns you out. theres no denying that and to say it's not a race or dont let anyone tell you that you cant duo for xp is simply naive let alone misleading.

It isn't a race to 75 for everyone. I for one don't care if it takes me 6 months or 6 years as long as I enjoy the game. And yes I and everyone else know that shit happens (Forrest Gump made that abundantly clear), what we are all saying that he can do whatever he wants. If he wants to do with his friend being drk/pld and him as a rng/whm then he can. We are giving him the suggestions on how to do it as effectively as possible instead of trying to tell him that he can't or shouldn't do it. I would rather see him duo with jobs that could work together and make it to 75, it would be slow and it could run into problems but it could also be alot of fun for him and his friend. Why does everyone have to do things the same as everyone else. I am planning on solo/duoing most of my jobs to 37 at the least (unless I can get a static pt for a job or two). I like to solo, duo and trio more then I like to party and maybe he will too. Just because you don't think it should be done doesn't mean it shouldn't. I will admit that along the way he will have to join a few parties to progress in the game (i.e. missions and quest) but I have know a few people that have solo their jobs to 75 (and not just bst either). SE did design this game to be geared more towards playing in a party but you don't have to. So to the OP once again if you want to duo with your buddy by all means duo but try to find jobs that would work together take the advice that everyone here has given and find something that works for the two of you.

[Omni]

Re: Duo - An army of two

I have, in fact, soloed DRG (although not exclusively). And every time I died I could clearly identify how I had screwed up (usually camping in the wrong place) and how to fix it. Deaths don't just "happen".
Well, I guess you could say that the time sanction wore in the middle of a fight wasn't exactly me screwing up, because there's no way to see before pulling how much time you have left on it. But that was a freak occurrence - sanction lasts hours - and most jobs aren't as reliant on sanction refresh as solo drg/mage anyway. (And even then, if I had had one yagudo drink - hell, even a pineapple juice - with me I would easily have survived.)
I'm pretty sure that the last time I got unwanted aggro was while soloing my Ru'Hmet map. It's really not hard to avoid aggro from non-TS mobs when you're not fighting, but those Zdeis are a bitch. (DRK and anything can do the sleep and log out trick too if they have to, in many cases.)
The time before that was a link from Marsh Murres west of Nashmau, caused by camping out in the middle of their wandering around area; since I shifted camp to the NPC at Alzadaal Ruins entrance zone, it hasn't happened again.
If you're dying more than once every 2-3 hours soloing on BST, I have to wonder if maybe it isn't such a great soloing job after all...
As for the hypothetical drk and mnk again... you conveniently put them just below the level of Parade Gorget, but there's no law preventing them from using juice for crunch situations, or having some MP gear, or even one of them using a club for Moonlight (although this definitely has some downsides, I don't know off the top of my head if it would end up being worthwhile or not.) Their ungeared MP is already enough to heal a total of 1400ish HP (not counting Regens or the DRK's Drain) - that's a lot of hits from EM-Ts. And they definitely won't be spending 5 minutes resting their HP as you suggested, or dying of poison.
I don't think anyone is claiming that you can duo for fast and trouble free exp. Certainly I'm not. But you can duo for some exp, if you know what you're doing and are careful. If that's what you enjoy, go ahead. Unrealistically high expectations aren't good, but neither are unrealistically low ones.

you're right. unrealistic expectations are not good. given the OP hasnt taken 2 jobs to 75 and experienced most of the game as you or I have, do you really think duo'ing is a realistic experience for them? im sure you remember as a new player the first time around, you wanted to experience things right? you cant assume this isnt the same for the OP.

as far as aggro goes, you have 2 jobs at 75 and lots of playing hours. I agree, I dont get aggro either unless its a place where you need to sacrifice to get past something. yet again, the OP is not where we are at in the game. I would assume he doesnt know vanadiel as well as you or i. so aggro IS a concern. its apart of the learning curve and it'll be a big part of their duo'ing experience.

bst soloing takes you to places where you dont have safe havens. its not like XP camps where you have a zone near by or a big safe area to camp. as a bst, especially since the depop patch, you are roaming. searching for prospective pets and mobs. its not like a duo like akysanni's where they might be able to just stay in 1 area all night long because their kill speed its slow enough to allow repops to occur.

@ spiritbear: soloing/duoing to 37 isnt really much of a feat tbh. it's easily doable. you're levels here are around 4-7k a level. very quick and very easy considering the lack of dangerous mobs. even faster if you have a job that can use bloody bolts because the drain to your dmg taken ratio is a lot larger than it would be at say lv. 65. not to mention XP ring would give you a boost for more than half of that level.

If he wants to do with his friend being drk/pld and him as a rng/whm then he can

i think you're just making a point to just disagree. its sorta like that southpark episode about WoW. if you kill millions and millions of boars for 2xp each, you'll eventually make it to level cap and therefore leveling to 75 is possible.

I have know a few people that have solo their jobs to 75 (and not just bst either).

can you tell me which job, other than bst, drg, pup and possibly smn that has soloed to 75? I'd really like to know and perhaps talk to these people. I'd love to know what they did and how they did it because I work a lot and my play time is shakey at best. I would be nice if I could level a job like COR solo to 75.

In my first post, I ended it with telling the OP if you can stomach this sort of thing, go for it. I also warned him that from previous experiences, this isnt an enjoyable way to level, especially with not choosing a solo minded job. I still stand by this. If you can do it for 6 years, more power to you. I just think as most people would like to experience other aspects of the game (missions, quests, etc) and being at the appropriate level allows you to take part in the best of what FFXI has to offer: its story.

[Spiritbear]

Re: Duo - An army of two

can you tell me which job, other than bst, drg, pup and possibly smn that has soloed to 75? I'd really like to know and perhaps talk to these people. I'd love to know what they did and how they did it because I work a lot and my play time is shakey at best. I would be nice if I could level a job like COR solo to 75.

I have a friend that soloed pld to 70 so far, his name is Sionn, he only gets on game once a month since he started college back up. I've also had a friend lvl Thief 75 and Ninja to 65 then he lost his account while taking a break. Both of them leveled in areas where the mobs checked EP-DC. They would just log in that area and when they came back on they would just start killing. Scionn would join parties only when he needed help with a quest or mission or he was helping someone with something other then that he was soloing.

[Hearshot]

Re: Duo - An army of two

I'm almost done lvling a second acct to 75brd. I'll be having fun with my THF+BRD duo. I plan to take down Charybdis first.

[Khei]

Re: Duo - An army of two

Had to pipe up here because Since October, When I started playign again, My mother and myself have been duoing quite well.

EXP partys IMO aren't all they're cracked up to be. and I'll elaborate..

First off Both of us have Three characters each.. Mine are as follows...

Khei - Mithra
lvl 4 BLM
lvl 11 RDM
lvl 20 MNK

Pehn - Taru
lvl 7 WAR

Ashven - Hume
lvl 30 THF
lvl 17 BLM
lvl 14 WAR
lvl 7 DRG
lvl 7 BLU
lvl 7 BRD
lvl 6 SMN
lvl 3 DRK

Now everything I've lvled was either Solo or Duo. I've EXp parties once and I've done the math.. EXP partys aren't as great as everyone makes them out to be and here's why..

at lvl 27 THF sub WAR ( Mom was 27 RDM sub WHM ) we took a ship over to Kazham.. Tried to get a Party.. wasted 2 hours just sitting around trying to find parties.. finally we got a party.. spent the next 30 minutes riding out the camp. Spent 30 mins killing two of the Yoaht Mandragorias that's 15 mins per fight got 200 EXP per fight for a total of 400 exp then the party split so we headed back to Valkurm Where duoing we were spending 1 min per fight killing pugils for 32 - 40 exp each

Figurign low at 32 exp per min that equals out to 480exp every 15 mins

So in the same amount of tiem it took for us to get 400 exp in an exp party we got 960+ exp each duoing in Valkurm.

That's not even including the 2 hours wasted trying to FIND the stupid party. Doesn't incluse use of a chariot or empress band either.

Exp parties are fine if you wanna waste your time just powering through the game Anothe rthing everyone forgets is that duoing with a RDm or WHM a duo party is alot eaier to keep track of and heal than a 6 man party.

For us Duoing and soloing is a much more rewarding and fullfilling not to mention more economic way to play. So anyone who tells you duoing is stupid is a moron. It can be done and has been done. exp parties are just one way to play.. It's an MMO people there's no right or wrong way to play.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Duo - An army of two

Well, to be perfectly fair, you're not really comparing duo'ing to full party--you're comparing a static duo party to a one-time experience attempting a pickup group party.

I don't think my static 6/6 party ever dropped below 3k exp/hour, even on the worst days when we have multiple deaths. No hours of seeking involved either--at most it's a 30 min wait for someone who's late.

Of course, if it's fun, who cares if it's 1.6k exp/hour or 6.1k exp/hour? ^_^