How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

[Theyaden]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

I guess I'm just wierd that way boasting about MPKing your own party seems odd. We've all delt with being in bad pt's as well as good ones. Making a bad party worse deliberatly is hardly something to be proud of. When a party is that bad [Flee] it and get a better one. Let the rest decide for themselves if the pt is within their minimum expectations rather than punishing them for wanting to try to make it work.

[Murphie]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

I guess I'm just wierd that way boasting about MPKing your own party seems odd. We've all delt with being in bad pt's as well as good ones. Making a bad party worse deliberatly is hardly something to be proud of. When a party is that bad [Flee] it and get a better one. Let the rest decide for themselves if the pt is within their minimum expectations rather than punishing them for wanting to try to make it work.

No, I agree. It's odd. I just found the random "he was wearing a subligar" comment amusing. Random details for the win.

There is never a good reason for making a bad party worse. If you don't want to be in the party anymore, just leave. Don't ruin five other people's evening just because you're grumpy.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

I find faking d/c to be rude, and take offense at it. It's dishonest, and make people waiting around just to avoid saying "I'm leaving" is slimy, IMO.

Well, let me ask you this - if your job is both and investment in time and expensive resources, what obligation do you hold to a PT if you are sinking those resources into it for paltry returns and wasted time? You can swing an axe and it will still be there, but when a tool, card, food or ammo is used, its permanently gone.

And since the FFXI community won't make concessions for those jobs to stay in the gil like people do in other MMORPGs, what loyalty should we hold to them? I'm not complaining that I have to spend gil to do my jobs - I have many ways to support it myself as these jobs - but I don't see a point to burning my resources it if I'm not getting a worthwhile return on it.

I don't see myself as special for spend loads of gil to do my jobs, yet at the same time, I don't see my jobs as charity work.

[Murphie]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

What exactly does any of that have to do with people who don't have the courage to say "This isn't working"? I don't care what job you are. Faking D/C instead of just saying goodbye is cowardly.

Both faking a D/C and bidding the party adieu achieve the same result. But the latter means that everyone knows what is up, and they don't stand around waiting for you to return. Regardless of how terrible the party may be, a basic level of respect is kind of nice to maintain.

[Telera]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

I don't get enough time to dedicate to levelling to deal with parties that break when one person has to go. I'm sure it's a grand thing for a party that is on a roll and they fear throwing a new cog into the wheel might scrap things, but for me, I'm going to get pretty pissed if I seek for an hour, get an invite, and someone has to go an hour later and the whole party breaks for it.

If it's a tank or something similar and there are no more seeking at the time, then ok, but if it's some DD, I don't see the problem with replacement. When I get time to party, I want do to it for a long time. I don't have time to mess with 'Bob has to go, so lets all break.' I've never understood the hatred of replacement. 90% of my parties have used it, and the vast majority of my parties have been solid. I can think of only 2-3 offhand that sucked very badly.

As to how to leave a party: depends on my mood. I've never left one that was started. I left one my b/f had started because a guy he invited was being a pretentious ass and I wasn't dealing with it. I simply said "I'm out, Matt." and dropped. The only other guy besides the 'ass' and my b/f dropped because of the guy soon after, too, so we restarted out little party build. But if I *had* to leave a group, I'd probably just say so and drop. Unless the members were already the type to be confrontational. In which case I'm never in the mood for lolintarwob flamewars and I would probably tell them I'm leaving, drop, and promptly d/c myself to avoid the ridiculous /tells.

Yes, my b/f and I static together. No, we don't do it as an excuse to not level other subs/keep our subs levelled at all. Not all couples are like that, despite it being believed by some people. Half the time we simply flag up at the same time, and don't even go in the same party. And when we are in the same group, we don't spend time babbling to one another. I'm usually healing and he's got his own things to be doing. We're both serious about our characters and our reputation on the server. It's pathetic that some couples can't even lay aside the cutesy-talk to level, but he and I do.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

What exactly does any of that have to do with people who don't have the courage to say "This isn't working"? I don't care what job you are. Faking D/C instead of just saying goodbye is cowardly.

Saying goodbye and abruptly leaving would be no different that saying "You suck" or d/cing outright. I've done both (well, not the "you suck" part) but never felt cowardly for doing so, I'm just shrewd.

And You're not looking at the situation detailed in the original post. This PT ran for over two hours, with an hour of downtime. The PT started after midnight EST and we got barely 9k the whole time in between the replacments, death and drama of the inept replacements. Oh and that AFK NIN and the SAM-turned-naked-WHM.

I'm not even sure leaving such a PT requires an explaination. Some people would have left just based on the the first hour of EXP, I stuck around hoping it would get better and it didn't.

As for what spending on consumable jobs has to do with any of this - level one for yourself and get back to me (subjobs do not count). When you eventually get that PT that is a waste of resources and reeks of Valkrum, perhaps you'll understand.

Or here's another way to look at it:

You're a RDM, I've been one once as well. Let's say you have a WHM in PT to main heal. This should leave you free to Refresh, nuke, enfeeble and support heal, right? Yet, somehow, you find yourself not only having to start hasting the tank and melee, but take over main healing because the WHM spends more time on their ass AFK than doing their job. Its your role to keep things efficient in PT, yet clearly there is somone not doing their part, creating downtime for you and everyone involved.

I had an Onzozo PT like this a year ago. Ironically, this was yet another boyfriend-girlfriend package-deal PT. Girl was WHM, Boy was NIN. There were spans of 10 minutes this chick went AFK without notice and it was more than once. The BLM and I were straining to keep MP up and eventually the NIN got sight aggro from a Torama during a fight. I sleep it and the NIN starts spazzing out at me, saying it didn't aggro (I'd know as his HP was dropping really fast, it aggroed.)

Had little choice but to CS/Escape the whole PT.

Here's the kicker - the NIN and WHM disband, telling us we suck. I think, if anything, we had the right to ditch them, not the other way around. If I had leader, I would have looked for replacments during PT and asked the BLM to D2 the twits without notice.

Big waste of time and these two somehow think I've forgetten that PT. So... is pretending to be AFK while seeking any better than fake d/c-ing?

[Murphie]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

Saying goodbye and abruptly leaving would be no different that saying "You suck" or d/cing outright. I've done both (well, not the "you suck" part) but never felt cowardly for doing so, I'm just shrewd.

Wrong. Saying "goodbye" or "you suck" lets the party know where it stands immediately. Faking a disconnect means that the party has to wait to see if you legitimately lost connection or if you just wanted to bow out of the party without being adult enough to just say so. There is a clear distinction.

And You're not looking at the situation detailed in the original post. This PT ran for over two hours, with an hour of downtime. The PT started after midnight EST and we got barely 9k the whole time in between the replacments, death and drama of the inept replacements. Oh and that AFK NIN and the SAM-turned-naked-WHM.

This discussion has long since moved past your story in the OP. You still could have just owned up to your feelings and left.

I'm not even sure leaving such a PT requires an explaination. Some people would have left just based on the the first hour of EXP, I stuck around hoping it would get better and it didn't.

So just leave. The party still knows where it stands, and you're not leaving five other people standing around wondering if you're going to come back. You can try and justify your actions all day long, but the fact remains that by faking a disconnect you no longer had any moral high ground.

As for what spending on consumable jobs has to do with any of this - level one for yourself and get back to me (subjobs do not count). When you eventually get that PT that is a waste of resources and reeks of Valkrum, perhaps you'll understand.

LEVEL X JOB TO X POINT AND GET BACK TO ME, KK!

Right.

I don't care what job you're leveling. If the party is not performing to your standards, you leave.

Or here's another way to look at it:

You're a RDM, I've been one once as well. Let's say you have a WHM in PT to main heal. This should leave you free to Refresh, nuke, enfeeble and support heal, right? Yet, somehow, you find yourself not only having to start hasting the tank and melee, but take over main healing because the WHM spends more time on their ass AFK than doing their job. Its your role to keep things efficient in PT, yet clearly there is somone not doing their part, creating downtime for you and everyone involved.

Happens all the time. And you know what I do? I leave the party. I don't have to put up with that shit.

I had an Onzozo PT like this a year ago. ....[some long anecdote about a bad party]... So... is pretending to be AFK while seeking any better than fake d/c-ing?

No. In fact, pretending to be AFK is worse, because you're leeching exp. But what does that have to do with faking a DC? Both are selfish, one a bit more so, but still, selfish and cowardly.

No one is forcing you to stay in bad parties. Just leave if it sucks. But don't make five other people stand around wondering if you're going to come back. That's just rude, regardless of whatever "reasons" you use to justify it.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

There is no connection between gil expenditure and the ability to treat other members of the party with simple courtesy.

Among other jobs, I'm also NIN41. When I was leveling it, I tossed away stacks of Juji Shuriken, and spammed the wheel as soon as I had Ni level elemental attack/enfeebs. I was (and still is) lousy at making gils, too. Yet, still can't see the connection, after recalling that painful drain on the wallet.

There's no need to word good-bye's as "you suck"--the team doesn't work, didn't click, or just state your tired without going into specifics of why you're tired of that party all work. Heck, even a "I'm leaving in 10 min, and I'd rather not go into why" is better than a needless deception.

Save your shrewdness for how to say good-bye without being mean.

[Murphie]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

There's no need to word things such as "you suck"--the team doesn't work, didn't click, or just state your tired without going into specifics of why you're tired of that party. Heck, even a "I'm leaving in 10 min, and I'd rather not go into why" is better than a needless deception.

Save your shrewdness for how to say good-bye without being mean.

Agreed. There's no reason to add insult to injury, as it were.

[Vyuru]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

I think that it is important to tell a party why you are leaving no matter what. I also think that it is important to try to nudge the party in the right direction and offer advice. There will be some people who just don't care, I've run into plenty of them, but there will also be some people who will try to do better.

If YOU, the person who knows better, don't speak up and try to help them understand what they are doing wrong, then they will mostly likely never improve, or go on happily oblivious to the fact that they may be screwing over their parties.

When you eventually get that PT that is a waste of resources and reeks of Valkrum, perhaps you'll understand.

Time is my resource, I get mad when people waste it because I don't have much of it. I can understand how a ninja, or other expensive job feels in a bad party, but just because you have an expensive job that doesn't give you the right to just drop a party with a fake DC because it doesn't measure up to your standards.

[Eohmer]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

Saying goodbye and abruptly leaving would be no different that saying "You suck" or d/cing outright.

How are they NOT different?

If you mention how you feel about the party, it lets them know where they stand and proceed accordingly. If you fake d/c, you make them wait because they don't know if you're coming back or not, thus wasting THEIR time like they supposedly wasted yours in the time you were with them.

Try to be a little more considerate.

[Spiritbear]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

While I can understand wanting to get even with the pt lead, did the other members you let die do anything to deserve it? If a party is pissing you off the answer is not to MPK the party but to indicate your leaving and leave it once the current fight is over. What you did is no better than firing a ranged attack at the nearest boggy and running it to the party in the middle of a fight.
If the pt lead calls me a noob he's lost the courtesy of the 10-15 minute warning before I disband, but mpking the other 4 people was over the top. Its not the fault of other pt members that they are willing to deal with a lower xp party but they all have to wait for weakness to wear off ru-use food items, and if the pt did disband wait for another invite which as a whm is not hard to come by if your a dragoon or dark it may be a different story.

Sorry for lacking on the rest of the infomation. I didn't just let the whole pt die without letting some of them know what I was planning. I talked to everyone, except the leader, about what I was going to do before the fight. Everyone else was going to disband if he didn't listen to me anyways. The only exception is they weren't going to tell anyone they were just going to die, hp and solo. I did a sea to see if we could find another tank but there where none seeking so I just aided in the hastening of the solo play for the rest of the pt. I did try to keep the pt together and so did everyone else.

If I had been PLing the pt I would have let the ldr die a couple of times for being and idiot and kept the rest of the pt alive. But, I wasn't and I'm not one to deal with stupidity. I don't think that people should suffer idiots and rude people. I'm not rude all the time I'm only rude when provoked to be so, and it takes alot most of the time. I deal with stupidity in my own way and sometimes I teach someone that would normally not listen something and make a friend, and sometimes I really piss someone off and make an enemy (which is why SE made /blist). If I had been ldr it would have been a different story as well I would have had him voke pull and just boot him and then worry about finding a tank but I wasn't.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

I think that it is important to tell a party why you are leaving no matter what. I also think that it is important to try to nudge the party in the right direction and offer advice.

In a level 60+ PT, I'm not there to babysit people. If you're a naked 75 WHM in a PT, you have no business being there. I don't even think just wearing AF cuts it, either, without the other equipment, you may as well be wearing level 1 RSE.

Going AFK in combat, that's even worse.

Its common sense that you don't do things like that. People shouldn't have to correct others about these things.

Time is my resource, I get mad when people waste it because I don't have much of it. I can understand how a ninja, or other expensive job feels in a bad party, but just because you have an expensive job that doesn't give you the right to just drop a party with a fake DC because it doesn't measure up to your standards.

While you may just be spending time, those jobs are spending time on top of time. The time to acquire the resources x The time spent using it. You might say all jobs are subject to that, but its not by the same degrees of time.

If I'm not seeing good returns on both kinds of time, I'm out whether its by d/c, disbanding outright or saying "Goodbye" when I actully mean something else.

[Akashimo]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

I have to agree, it is a waste baby-sitting people who by 60+ should gotten the idea of what equip to wear and how to use it inconjunction to their job. Time on top of time is also an issue. Myself, I normally make a living off what ever drops I can get from EXP and solo. So when I'm wasting ammo/shihei/food/Imperial Standing/even exp from deaths and the return value from the use is drastically less than from getting it in the first place, action must be taken. How extreme? What the situtation calls for. If its very slow pty and another member says @15 mins, I'ma join on that disband train. If its death after death, I'mma get up, say bai and warp out.

[Vyuru]

Re: How to leave a party without saying "This PT sucks?"

In a level 60+ PT, I'm not there to babysit people.

Agreed, however I think you have to keep in mind that people who don't even qualify for "newb" status are making it higher and higher these days. Awhile ago, it seemed like Yuhtunga/Altepa levels are the new Valkurms. What may be worse, people are fine with it. Now it seems like the Valkurm mentality has reached the lvl 50s. I've met some really bad, horribly inept players in those level ranges.

I've met ninjas who couldn't tank, pld tanks using AoE staff WS in the middle of a bunch of non aggro linking mobs, such as the 3 Catoplas standing right next to him, and when he wouldn't use an AoE WS he'd pull the bird next to another bird so that they would link, rangers who go out to pull and link/aggro 8 fricking mobs, and then wonder why the blm casts escape rather than sleeping them all, whm who'd rather nuke with banish, or act like a gimped summoner rather than heal, thfs who couldn't SATA to save their life, drks who cut their life to pieces by using a Abs spell, Soul Eater, Last Resort, Berserk, and THEN wonder how in the world they got hate and omg what a crappy tank and whm for letting them die. Oh guess what, they were wearing full plastron armor to boot and didn't bother to take it off, you can imagine how quickly they died. The list goes on, and on, and on, and these are all examples of lvl 60+ parties I've had. The drk was a lvl 75 and that incident was in a brass airtank farming party I was in. Oh, oh, my favorite so far? I had a party, of which 3 of the members were 2 drks and a rdm, we were fighting goblins in bibiki bay, we pull a gobbie blm, might have been hobgoblin, I forget. Anyway, rdm never casts silence on it even after it starts nuking the party, gob tosses out a bomb at full health, drks don't bother with stun or weapon bash, which was important since we had agreed prior that we wanted them to stun those moves, then the gob tosses out a, I think it was Fireaga II or III, rdm doesn't silence or sleep the mob, drks don't stun it, we only lived because almost immediatly after that it did another bomb toss that happened to be a suicide toss after the whm used Benediction.


Not to sound like an old duffer, but dangit back in my day we let people know if they were gimped or not, how they performed, and how they could be better. We were also open to people trying out new subs/equipment, so long as they let us know about it before hand.

While you may just be spending time, those jobs are spending time on top of time. The time to acquire the resources x The time spent using it. You might say all jobs are subject to that, but its not by the same degrees of time.

It is entirely relative to how much time the person spends online, and what they do with that time. If they spend 9/10ths of their time farming to party, and the other 1/10th partying, then yeah, I can understand being upset that your time is being wasted. If you only spend 1/10th of your time farming, and the other 9/10ths partying or doing other things, IMO you don't have as much reason to complain about a bad party as the first person.

As I said before, you will find some people who don't care about improving, but you may still show the light to someone who honestly may not have known better. I think it's fine to leave a party that you don't think is doing well. But I think you owe it to that party to say why you are leaving. I think it is only common courtesy, especially since you are an experianced player and know how to do things better.