DMG and Atk

[Wise Donkey]

I know there are a few who frequent these forums that know formulas and theories for Damage, so here is my question:

How do DMG and Atk relate? Is a "23 DMG +5 Atk" weapon as good as a "28 DMG" weapon?

Thanks for any insight you can give.

EDIT: Assume equal delay.

[Skoal]

Re: DMG and Atk

I would say 28 dmg would win but I would like to know what job you are planning on using this with.

[Armando]

Re: DMG and Atk

28 DMG beats 23 DMG +5 Attack in every conceivable situation if the Delay is the same. I'd explain why but I have to leave for class in 3 minutes.

[Wise Donkey]

Re: DMG and Atk

I would say 28 dmg would win but I would like to know what job you are planning on using this with.

These are not references to actual weapons, just examples I pulled outta the air. I am just trying to understand DMG and Atk better.

Armando - Please explain when you get out of class. Or someone else with the knowledge.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: DMG and Atk

You can figure out all that yourself:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Calcula...hysical_Damage

Weapon's Damage rating affects Base Damage, and Attack affects pDIF.

There a quite a few variables involved, but the actual math is about 8th grade level for U.S. students (or 6th grade for East Asians). Keep playing with them, and you should be able to see why Armando say what he did.

[Wise Donkey]

Re: DMG and Atk

Thanks IfritnoItazura, I didn't think about checking the ffxiclopedia.

[Wise Donkey]

Re: DMG and Atk

Ok, I have been trying to figure something out, maybe to no avail, maybe someone can help me out here. Is there a way to figure out how much +Atk is equal to +1 Weapon DMG? Assuming as many constants as possible, can that be quantified? Thanks again!

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: DMG and Atk

They are not equivalent; you can't convert from one to another.

[Toksyuryel]

Re: DMG and Atk

DMG will affect the maximum potential damage you can do, while ATK will affect the CONSISTENCY with which you hit close to/at that damage. STR is also a big factor in the maximum potential damage figure. Basically your ATK is compared to their DEF to determine how often you'll hit your max damage or close to it, and your STR and DMG is compared to their VIT to determine what that max damage is (see the linked wiki article for the actual formulas)

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: DMG and Atk

DMG will affect the maximum potential damage you can do, while ATK will affect the CONSISTENCY with which you hit close to/at that damage.

This is not a correct interpretation of the equation. -_-;

Both the damage rating and the attack contribute to actual damage, but each to a different term within the equation. Honestly, follow the link(s) I posted; it's all there.

[Sabaron]

Re: DMG and Atk

This is quite a question. The answer is that it depends. I wrote a spreadsheet for it.

My damage calculator is attached as a ZIP file containing .ods (OpenOffice) and .xls (MSExcel) formats.

Disclaimer: I do not claim that my math is correct. Use at your own risk. Check me if you like; flame if you must.

It seems there was an error! I forgot to switch out the fixed numbers for a reference (jargon). Needless to say, the damage codes at the bottom of the sheet will be incorrect and if you downloaded a previous version (before this correction notice appeared) you will need to replace the number "38" in cells B39 and B49 with the reference "B2".

[Lmnop]

Re: DMG and Atk

This is not a correct interpretation of the equation. -_-;
Both the damage rating and the attack contribute to actual damage, but each to a different term within the equation. Honestly, follow the link(s) I posted; it's all there.

He's not entirely wrong. More like a slice of the right. It's not the whole cake, but there's not really anything wrong with what he said. I.e. high attack will make your damage more consistent, but it also increases maximum damage. weapon DMG can be used to figure the maximum amount of damage you could possibly attain, but it's not gonna happen on exp mobs. Errr.. I'm not so sure on the str/vit stuff. It's just more damage.

[Jugil]

Re: DMG and Atk

The following equation is your base damage for a normal hit (not a WS). There are some additional terms included for weapon skills, but it's not neccessary for this discussion.

Dbase = D + fSTR

D is straight foward, that is just your weapon's damage, plain and simple. fSTR is a function of your strength versus the mob's vitality [(STR - VITmob +4)/4], and is capped by a function of your damage [(the integer portion of D/9) + 8]. For simplicity, we will just say fSTR is 3 (i.e. you have 8 more STR than the mob has VIT).

So, taking your numbers (DMG: 23 vs. 28), you can have a base damage of 26 vs. 31 respectively, which is about a 15% swing.

Next, we calculate your pDIF. The first step is calculating your attack-mob defense ratio:

cR = (ATK/DEFmob) - 0.05*(LVLmob - LVLyou) ; the level difference cannot be less than zero.

Let's assume your level difference is 0, and your ATK = 150 vs. mob's DEF = 150. Therefore, cR = 1 OR cR = 155/150 = 1.033 (+5 ATK).

based upon your cR, your pDIFmax = 1 + 1.2*(cR - 5/6). with cR = 1 and 1.033, your maximum pDIF = 1.2 and 1.24 respectively.

For your maximum hit, multiply your Dbase by your pDIFmax:

DMG:28 weapon | Hit = 31*1.2 = 37.2
DMG:23 +5 ATK weapon | Hit = 26*1.24 = 32.24

using similar calcs, your maximum critical hit is as follows (crit hits modify the pDIF):

68.2 with the DMG:28 weapon vs. 58.2 with the DMG:23 weapon.

Note/Edit: This is based upon several assumptions I made about STR, VIT, ATK, DEF, etc.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: DMG and Atk

Ok, I have been trying to figure something out, maybe to no avail, maybe someone can help me out here. Is there a way to figure out how much +Atk is equal to +1 Weapon DMG? Assuming as many constants as possible, can that be quantified? Thanks again!

I assume you want to know that for comparing low damage weapons with stat buffs to high damage weapons without them. When making such comparisons, keep the following in mind: you can get +attack (and many other significant stat boosts) in almost any equipment slot. However, nothing outside of your weapon slot can boost base damage.

Whether that lower damage weapon with +attack will help you more than a higher damage weapon is very situational. You have to consider what other gear you will be wearing and what kind of mobs (particular level range) you will be fighting. +attack will be more important if you're fighting IT++ or if your gear/food setup is lacking in +attack. However, if you happen to be eating meat, have a lot of +attack from other gear, static with a BRD, or tend to fight VT/low IT, then the higher base damage weapon may be more beneficial.

[Armando]

Re: DMG and Atk

D is straight foward, that is just your weapon's damage, plain and simple. fSTR is a function of your strength versus the mob's vitality [(STR - VITmob +4)/4], and is capped by a function of your damage [(the integer portion of D/9) + 8]. For simplicity, we will just say fSTR is 3 (i.e. you have 8 more STR than the mob has VIT).

HOLD IT. [(STR - VIT + 4)/4] is an approximation. Different weapon ranks get different fSTR values with the same STR-VIT difference. Just wanted to throw that out there.

He's not entirely wrong. More like a slice of the right. It's not the whole cake, but there's not really anything wrong with what he said. I.e. high attack will make your damage more consistent, but it also increases maximum damage. weapon DMG can be used to figure the maximum amount of damage you could possibly attain, but it's not gonna happen on exp mobs. Errr.. I'm not so sure on the str/vit stuff. It's just more damage.

I don't know, that's a bit iffy to me. If by consistent you mean having a narrower range of damage possibilities, this isn't true. If you mean you'll be hitting close to max damage more consistently, then this isn't true in at least one scenario I've tested; when you have capped Attack, your damage is distributed practically perfectly.