BLU vs RDM

[hongman]

Ok, so my friend started BLU and was raving about how much of a DD it is. Then came the line "Blu would kill Rdm in a PVP battle"

Now, most of you know Im Rdm main. I dont claim to know a lot, and i certianly know bugger all about Blu. So I am here to ask a few questions.

We have decided upon a Brenner match at 55, with no Silence. Whoever wins, wins. Then a match again at 75 (apparently) when we both have full use of our Job's skills.

Now, dont get me wrong, I respect every job. But I am (yes I am biased) thinking that I will win. Strategy follows (please point out any obvious flaws). I am certain that the key is to not let him near me too soon as as out and out DD goes, he will probably win. Both as /NIN

1. Gravity + Bind {Run Away!}
2. Diaga to wipe shadows
3. Enfeeble (Slow/Para/Dia/Bio/Poison)
4. Buff (SS, Phalanx, Refresh, Proc/Shell, Utsu)
5. Nuke Nuke Nuke
6. ES + Sleep II
7. Convert -> Heal
8. Nuke Nuke Nuke
9. If he's still alive, Melee

Obviously as long as everything sticks (with all my gear stat boosts and Gob Mushpot for +10MND and Elemental Seal for Sleep II) I think its a done deal.

Then again...like I said I dont know what kinda abilities BLU have so...

Comments?

[Mhurron]

Re: BLU vs RDM

Why restrict the use of Silence?

[Raydeus]

Re: BLU vs RDM

Blu's abilities will depend on what spells he has equipped when he fights you, but you don't have to worry much about melee damage, Phalanx, Stoneskin and Icespikes will take care of that.

That would leave Blue magic as his main source of damage, so unless you get Shell and Protect dispeled I don't see that being much of a problem either.

[Murphie]

Re: BLU vs RDM

Silence is one of a RDM's key spells. Restricting it's use is essentially admitting that RDM needs to be handicapped so that BLU can compete.

Personally, I'd say either go all out on both sides or don't bother.

[hongman]

Re: BLU vs RDM

I dunno, the No Silence rule was added by another ls member, so I thought hey, maybe that would make it unfair. I know it is an official legitimate spell....

Also presume he has all BLU Spells for this - i know he hasnt, but then again I dont know what he has and hasnt got. So presume he has them all.

My main fear is Bludgeon and Headbut spam so thats why with gravity and bind I am planning on him not even being able to get near me.

2hrs havent been decided on yet, but of they are allowed, I thought I might go in as /blm and just do the same but CS and Nuke + Aspir so even if I dont kill him he has no MP left XD

Can anyone see a flaw in my plans? Am I underestimating BLU?

[hongman]

Re: BLU vs RDM

Silence is one of a RDM's key spells. Restricting it's use is essentially admitting that RDM needs to be handicapped so that BLU can compete.

Personally, I'd say either go all out on both sides or don't bother.

True. Will discuss tonight/tomorrow.

[Haggai]

Re: BLU vs RDM

Silence is one of a RDM's key spells. Restricting it's use is essentially admitting that RDM needs to be handicapped so that BLU can compete.

Personally, I'd say either go all out on both sides or don't bother.

I agree. Why are you restricting silence? He has Chaotic Eye. It's like telling a Black Mage that he can't use sleep.

[hongman]

Re: BLU vs RDM

Fair play I will bring this up when I next speak to him. Its a friendly fight, but on a more serious note, he is trying to prove BLU is the "best job" (no such thing but try telling him that) and Im merely saying RDM can outlive most if not all jobs. Not saying RDM is "best" (well it is to me but to others its different).

Its so funny winding him up though, cracks the whole LS up

[hongman]

Re: BLU vs RDM

Hehehe

Thanks all got some really good tips

Iv not yet seen one person yet say "It will be an even match/difficult/etc" So is the general concensus that all other things being equal, RDM will always triumph over Blu? Coz that really strokes my ego XD

[Ameroth]

Re: BLU vs RDM

Fair play I will bring this up when I next speak to him. Its a friendly fight, but on a more serious note, he is trying to prove BLU is the "best job" (no such thing but try telling him that) and Im merely saying RDM can outlive most if not all jobs. Not saying RDM is "best" (well it is to me but to others its different).

Its so funny winding him up though, cracks the whole LS up

If he feels that BLU is the "best job", then he wont mind allowing the use of Silence. After all, BLU is so unbelievably awesome that it won't matter if he's silenced.

[BurningPanther]

Re: BLU vs RDM

Yeah, no point in trying to decide a "best job" if you can't use all the tools at your disposal. The fact that someone even had to suggest handicapping RDM and Silence speaks volumes for your odds in the fight.

What it really comes down to, as is with facing any casting job, is whether or not you can successfully fire off Silence. Everything after that sort of falls into place.

[Ghostraven]

Re: BLU vs RDM

Silence and 2hours being restricted tip the odds in the BLU's favor...

Also Bio overwrites dia, don't try to put them both on him at the same time.

[Sabaron]

Re: BLU vs RDM

If you're talking PvP, you should also find a similarly qualified DRK to throw down as well. They're very good in PvP.

I agree that Silence needs to be in play. If it's out of play, then BLU cannot use Chaotic Eye and Silence is better than Chaotic Eye, so they're basically stripping you of one of your advantages which is not very cool.

Remember that if he's /NIN when you throw Gravity/Bind it's going to get eaten by shadows. Diaga has to go first.

Red Mage's biggest advantage in PvP is the Paralyze spell. Since he will be Even Match, there's probably like a 1-5% chance of a resist on it, so stack +MND as high as possible to get hideous effectiveness. He can cancel your Slow spell with Refueling, so you might just leave that one off.

Buff before enfeeble. Stoneskin should be your first priority, followed by Utsusemi then Phalanx and Shell/Protect.

If you're going to be nuking him, I might suggest the radical alternative of going /BLM so that you can use Sleepga to Sleep him through shadows. Of course, this provided you can use Sleepga at your level. Blink isn't as good as Utsusemi, but Elemental Seal and -ga spells are horrible especially when you have a basically unresistable Gravity spell and Bind as well. With /BLM you have 3 sleeps, one that cancels Shadows. This method however precludes DoT spells.

You could also try DoT kiting him like an HNM. Recasting only Diaga, Silence, Bio II, and Poison II. Off /BLM sub you add a triad of Elemental enfeebles. I would suggest Drown, Rasp, Frost.

With RDM/NIN don't forget that you have other Ninjutsu besides Utsusemi which you can use to cause good damage (better than a NIN/WAR or WAR/NIN) because of your Elemental skill. Tools cost 0mp.

I have never done PvP myself, but will hopefully be trying it soon (probably Brenner). I'm basically thinking out loud.

If you wanted, you could try subbing /BLU just to shake things up . I have never used BLU Sleepgas (Sheep Song, Soporific, Pinecone Bomb) versus ninjas that I'm aware of, so I'm not sure if they're shadow-cancelling.

You could also consider using a Hornetneedle and Dia II as opposed to Bio II (make sure you Dispel his Cocoon) and use Energy Drain to steal his MP. Remember that Bludgeon is a threefold attack, so your Phalanx is triple strength versus it. My bludgeons hit for around 100 damage at my level so if his are say 150 and your Phalanx blocks around 20/hit that drops it to 90 per spell and he'll only ever get one off before you resilence him. If he tries Chaotic Eye, just move behind him while he's casting (you have 3 seconds) and it will miss--just unlock and run right past him. Chaotic Eye is a front-conal gaze attack. Throw Silence back up and continue. As long as he's Blind and Paralyzed and preferably Slow (if he didn't get a Refueling off before you silenced him), you should have no trouble meleeing him since your armor is similar, your accuracy is similar and you do more damage with Enspell than he can with Sword. Phalanx will ensure that his damage sucks compared to yours even when your mitigation spells are down. What weapon you use (dagger v. sword) depends on your current level and how much your Enspell does. I would mix it up though and use nukes as well. Probably take your pre-convert mana and spend it on nukes, then Sleep him, Convert, Refresh, Full-hp, and then engage ensuring all debuffs are up before you throw down. If you hit him with an Energy Steal at 200% TP, you may be able to drain 60ish MP from him which will really hurt. This is why I suggest the dagger over the sword if you can get similar damage. Enspell damage is also unaffected by his defense which gives it trumps over physical damage.

Also, if you're meleeing him and you feel that you might be dangerously close to needing a bit of uninterrupted time, do unlock target, turn away, Bind, run, cast, cast, cast, reengage.

Be liberal with the Phalanx--recast it before it goes down and remember that you can click off Stoneskin while you're recasting it just like overwriting Ni with Ichi but much easier.

When doing Red Mage Invincible Tank here's the procedure:

1. Phalanx [this reduces damage and curbs interruption which allows you to take a couple hits while casting SS]
2. Stoneskin
3. Utsusemi
4. Utsusemi down? Recast!
5. Cast Stoneskin [Cancelling your current one mid-cast at like 30-40%]
6. Repeat 4/5 and reapply Phalanx as necessary.

This procedure integrates Ni/Ichi cycle into it when you get to 74/75, and is hideously powerful. It is the essential force for RDM soloing.

[hongman]

Re: BLU vs RDM

lol just to prove a point he got beat by a blu 5 lvls lower than him tongiht whilst i was pting.

Was a good sport about it, still...made him realise a thing or 2 i think.

[BurningPanther]

Re: BLU vs RDM

That seems to be attributed to his own play ability, not the attributes of the job. The guy who beat him may just know how to work BLU better than he does. THAT might be the guy to challenge.