Idea Refinement: "TP Burn Solution" (Play Bonus)

[Hyrist]

Re: Idea Refinement: "TP Burn Solution" (Play Bonus)

Lately I have seen a strong trend of Bsts running in Duos. I dont believe that if we focus mainly on the beneficial part of this proposal, meaning no nerf, just the updated exp bonuses, that Bsts will suffer any more than that they would normally do from being outside an exp party.

I don't beleive, however, % of damage should be a primary factor in exp chains. Simply because people will only invite players who can create distortion, which would then isolate certain melee classes out.

But I will add the recommendation into the list of possible ways to implement it when I compose my letter to SE.

[Lmnop]

Re: Idea Refinement: "TP Burn Solution" (Play Bonus)

I know this isn't exactly the same as "that-other-thread" but...

thing I don't like about that is that it honestly just trades efficiency for exp. Even if AM isn't ideal, it'll get the biggest exp boost. Likewise, no one would ever make Scission on Torama -- despite that being the only time in the game that you're asking for Scission -- just because distortion would give a small boost to the exp.

I don't like the idea of doing it just so you can do it. At that point it's like you're "playing" with the mobs instead of fighting for your life. And this would imply that the characters were using these mobs for target practice, which would mean (in addition to being very sadistic) that you weren't learning how to be efficient in battle. And what kind of hardened warrior gains battle experience from playing with something that couldn't possibly harm them? I know, Roleplaying's dead but work with me here.

And yeah, while I'd love to smack some people for not being able to SC, I really don't like the idea of people going insane because someone used the wrong WS on accident, or the mob moved away suddenly and took tp from the closer or whatever.

This would also make people even more insane about accuracy because they no longer care as much about finding the perfect build for damage, instead they care about just connecting for bonus exp. This is along the same lines as Corsair's Roll for extra exp when other rolls are more beneficial, or Thieves meleeing with their Thief's Knives (I WISH THEY WOULD DELETE TH+ GEAR) just for better drops in dynamis, furthering the idea that THFs suck in end-game. So yeah, I don't want yet another trait of the game that takes away efficiency in the name of achieving something more "selfish."

[Neomage]

Re: Idea Refinement: "TP Burn Solution" (Play Bonus)

Personally I am all for the additional EXP/Skillchains. MAny people are comparing the current TP burn trend to Manaburns and Fistborns and Arrowburns,but their is one major diffrence.

TP burns use a majority of jobs(Anything that can sub NIN and melee effectively).
Other burns use 1-2 jobs(BRD + BLM, or MNK + WHM, etc.) The main diffrence from this is incread of providing one job with an oppertunity(i.e. a boost) it excludes certain jobs(i.e. nerf). And I think that there Skillchain boosts will be very beneficial as long as SE initiates a cap. Otherwise they would develop into keeping the monster alive ans spamming WS. It just needs to be strong enough to make it worthwhile for normal parties again.

I may be on in a million, but I used to LOVE standard EXP parties. I LOVED Magic Bursting. Around 55, I stopped Bursting, because Melees wern't SCing. It just wasn't efficent. A 20% boost overall to EXP for a SC + MB in a fight adds up to ALOT over time. A standard PT goes up from 5k/hour to 6k/hour. If SE made it so there was a cap of 50%, and the average SC/MB gave more like 40% boost, the bonus from lv 6+ EXP chains would still exist and give meleeburn their fun, and Paladins, Uncolored Mages(White & Black), and other jobs could at least get 7k/hour as opposed to the lousy 4-5k now. I can get that soloing as a BLM for heaven's sakes. And this is a party-oriented game.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Idea Refinement: "TP Burn Solution" (Play Bonus)

Would shifting exp/hour toward parties that can make efficient SC + MB make putting together parties harder? If the chain bonus were lowered, parties would need to be able to SC and MB to make up for that decrease. And if the amount of the bonus is proportional to the damage done by the SC and MB, then it would force parties to form based on being able to do the most efficient SC + MB (not simply any old SC).

It seems like it's hard enough to find a party already. It's quite common for me to find myself in a combination of DDs where the best SC I can come up with is a Scission SC. And yet, the BLM still expects me to somehow figure out a Distortion or level 3 Light SC.

[Raydeus]

Re: Idea Refinement: "TP Burn Solution" (Play Bonus)

Would shifting exp/hour toward parties that can make efficient SC + MB make putting together parties harder? If the chain bonus were lowered, parties would need to be able to SC and MB to make up for that decrease. And if the amount of the bonus is proportional to the damage done by the SC and MB, then it would force parties to form based on being able to do the most efficient SC + MB (not simply any old SC).

It seems like it's hard enough to find a party already. It's quite common for me to find myself in a combination of DDs where the best SC I can come up with is a Scission SC. And yet, the BLM still expects me to somehow figure out a Distortion or level 3 Light SC.

Yeah lowering chain bonus would be a bad idea indeed.

About this making more difficult to build parties that's why I'd like seeing # of hits combo+damage as what it would determine the XP bonus from SC+MB. That way you could do a 3 folded SC with an MB and get a nice bonus, of course if you did good damage too then you'd get a bit extra XP.

Also the bonus could be calculated by chain instead of by kill, that way the higher your chain and successful SC+MBs would give you a neat XP bonus at the end of said chain.

Finishing a chain 6-7 killing an IT+ with an extra 3500 xp bonus would be nice. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the xp bonus was capped or required killing only IT mobs to kick in, just to prevent parties from SC+MBburning it.

[Aeni]

Re: Idea Refinement: "TP Burn Solution" (Play Bonus)

This would also make people even more insane about accuracy because they no longer care as much about finding the perfect build for damage, instead they care about just connecting for bonus exp. This is along the same lines as Corsair's Roll for extra exp when other rolls are more beneficial, or Thieves meleeing with their Thief's Knives (I WISH THEY WOULD DELETE TH+ GEAR) just for better drops in dynamis, furthering the idea that THFs suck in end-game. So yeah, I don't want yet another trait of the game that takes away efficiency in the name of achieving something more "selfish."

You mean you rather not go back to how it used to be? Back when the cap was still at level 50 I mean. The dynamics of the exp flow. That sort of thing.

I don't know. I had enjoyed it back in the days. The days prior to me leaving the game, however, saw many changes to that exp dynamics to the point that it's not even efficiency anymore as much as it is "exploitation" to a problem which SE recognizes but is unable to solve.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Idea Refinement: "TP Burn Solution" (Play Bonus)

TP burns are naturally better at dealing damage than SCing, even when the monster has a lot of HP. A monster would have to be weak to Skillchains(and/or MBs) in addition to having high HP and higher exp. Qutrab or however you spell their names are kind of a step in that direction.

Giving jobs more natural abilities(or traits even) that increase their damage flow(thinking more Jump or Berserk kind of moves, or critical rate up) will help them a lot. The less dependence a job has on their subjob, the better they are with a subjob(Warrior, Ninja, Monk).

If they were going to nerf Utsu(and therefor, TP burns), it should be subtle, one or both of the following:

1) /sub Ichi gives 2 shadows

2) Magic has a bigger variety with shadows depending on your skill: tier'd spells take their amount of shadows equal to their tier(Ancient Magic counts as tier 5 and tier 6; Gravity and Bind count as tier 2) unless your Ninjetsu skill is high enough to resist one or two shadows. The check is made with your Ninjetsu skill(+INT) vs your opponent's Magic Skill(+INT or MND). A NIN who has capped Ninjetsu skill, merits, and +10 to 20 in gear will almost always resist 2 shadows on spells on anything.

I mentioned this in another thread and it may be a bit much if combo'd with the above(especially the /sub Ichi nerf), Dual Wielding gives a -15% STR on main hand and -50% STR on second hand. Using a 2-handed weapon gives a +50% STR.

Giving a damage boost to using weapon skills that hit only once might be a good idea.

[Tuufless]

Re: Idea Refinement: "TP Burn Solution" (Play Bonus)

Personally, I feel that the problem is that the benefits of a skillchain are just not good enough. You could go and make a skillchain and magic burst, but the extra damage from the skillchain effect and the MB bonus damage just isn't worth the loss of spamming WS that do more damage naturally, not to mention the reaction time in actually executing the skillchain.

If you can raise the additional skillchain damage and subsequent MB bonus, then yes, I could see a reason for skillchains to return, although I'm starting to wonder what mob out there would survive the full assault, other than Trolls. Demons, perhaps.

[Hyrist]

Re: Idea Refinement: "TP Burn Solution" (Play Bonus)

I'm dropping the whole deduction of EXP chaining bonus idea, it woulden't help the problem as much as create a new one.

However as far as constructing a party to create magic bursts and skillchains to help the exp flow wont be a huge problem.

When you conister that VT IT is the group wanting to work with, you have the burn tactic and the skillchain tactic, and various degrees between that will still net you good amounts of exp.

Maybe it will take you longer to kill a mob than you would like, but the play bonus from the skillchains and burst you are doing now helps keep your exp/hr running ok.

So it helps in a lot of ways without really breaking anything. But it just has to be properly planned so it's not overpowered.

[Malacite]

Re: Idea Refinement: "TP Burn Solution" (Play Bonus)

Has anyone else noticed that for the most part, mobs in ToAU resist SC's and magic in general a bit too much? (Excluding Flans)

[Lmnop]

Re: Idea Refinement: "TP Burn Solution" (Play Bonus)

I'm sorry, did I see myself get quoted and made out to be some pro-TP burn guru who will spit on any idea of lowering my exp/hour?

The warrior who wants warriors nerfed and only wants SC/MBs?

No thanks. I want a fix that makes sense. This idea of SC/MB for extra exp is like going to work and moving one stack of boxes from pallet A to pallet B, and then back again. Why? Just so you can keep busy so you can get your pay. You're not actually accomplishing anything. Just working for your money. They did that in 1984, you know. It kept the stupid masses happily occuplied. Give them work to do so they don't think of what they're missing.

[711rocks]

Re: Idea Refinement: "TP Burn Solution" (Play Bonus)

I really like the idea of giving XP bonuses for skillchains and magic bursts.
Maybe something like:
+5% XP for 1 skillchain, plus 5% for each additional "chained" skillchain. If you use Fast Blade > Red Lotus Blade (Liquefaction) +5% > Combo (Fusion) +5% you'd get a +10% bonus overall. Adding more un-chained skillchains should not yield more XP.
+5% for each magic burst. I don't consider this to be terribly abusable (seriously, how many bursts are you likely to see in a fight?). Bear in mind that infini-chain parties are currently earning +50% xp on every fight. And hey, this makes Dark Knights pretty cool!
Icemage

If you had like a drk/war, a nin/war, a thf/nin, a blm, a rdm, and a smn in your pt, wouldn't that let you do like a sc for 5% and every job could burst it for another 5% (bursting ninjutsu)

[Omniblast]

Re: Idea Refinement: "TP Burn Solution" (Play Bonus)

I like the original post, however I would like to make the suggestion that a magic burst & Chain should output MORE damage.

Thusly, a BLM would only need to really cast 1 spell to do 2k damage, while he/she can rest 80% of the time. Poor White Mages/Summoners would need the rest time to keep continuing, if that was the case, then they need something else to help with either their curing or their recovery(i.e. additional stacking Clear Minds)

There is a Economizer in the game, however it's for Automations, I remember this is one of the most sought items in FFVI/FF3. I wish it was something that you could equip... *sigh* a taru can dream can't he?

[Icemage]

Re: Idea Refinement: "TP Burn Solution" (Play Bonus)

Actually, perhaps a better fix would be to nerf (yes NERF) some weaponskill damage (for the really out-of-control multi-hit and similar WS such as Rampage), improve the damage of most of the weaker weaponskills to fall more in line with what they ought to do and greatly increase the accuracy and damage of skillchains.

Right now, not counting resistances and peculiar weaknesses, I believe the base unresisted damage of a skillchain is 50% of the activating WS damage for level 1 SC, 60% for level 2, and 100%(?) for level 3. I'd really like to see that bumped to 100%, 200% and 300% respectively, along with increased accuracy for the magical skillchain damage, and a higher damage multiplier for magic bursted spells (right now, there's only a very mild damage boost - most of the MB bonus for magic is in accuracy).


Icemage

[Hyrist]

Re: Idea Refinement: "TP Burn Solution" (Play Bonus)

I think more along the lines of lowering resist rates and upping modifiers, not straight damage, but the modifiers for certain weaponskills, IE the magic type weapon skills that deal crap damage due to the low modifiers on things like RLB, Seraph Blade, etc.