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**bikkebakke** · 01-15-2007, 02:47 PM

Re: Tired of /nin

I also get annoyed with everyone wanting /nin, but it is a very functional subjob. I like thf/war myself... it's more fun to me, but most of the ffxi community is close minded to anything other than cookie cutter set ups. I'm sure you can level thf/war eventually, but you'll have to endure getting looked over for the people subbing /nin.

**Jei** · 01-15-2007, 02:56 PM

Re: Tired of /nin

So many things aren't very thought out if you look at it.

I hate Fafnir camp. Everyone just want to MPK everybody else on my server. I'm so sick of it. Especially this spider exploit -.- But I want Ridil -.-

**Omgwtfbbqkitten** · 01-15-2007, 03:43 PM

Re: Tired of /nin

I'm not an /NIN advocate, though I do see its functions for certain situations. I was /RNG for COR on the majority of my levels, think I've done COR/NIN for five total levels of my COR Careers. RNG I honestly favor /WAR more often, but will definately sub /NIN in BCNM and certain situations, but I still go WAR in most burn PTs since I can flatline some mobs. I did Fenrir Prime this week and if we wanted to beat it within the half hour I had to do a bit of damage... which leads to kiting, so I needed /NIN there.

People may say I'm elitest, I just hate the wasted subjob potential and lack of PT variety in this game. Ever since we got to start playing in the western regious its always been the cookie-cutter approach to "fast, safe and efficient" EXP. I don't mind fastpaced and lots of EXP, but I do prefer some variety and challenge. I'm not bothered with a setup just because a PT doesn't have a NIN tank or WAR/NINx4 in it. I want to try different things.

Originally posted by Jei

I hate Fafnir camp. Everyone just want to MPK everybody else on my server. I'm so sick of it. Especially this spider exploit -.- But I want Ridil -.-

They just need to yank darters and spiders from the zone completely. DA is easily the most broken HNM camp in the game.

And who has been getting Ridill from our lolHNMLSes - rhymes with "Normick" - it makes me weep for the real WARs on our server.

**Yeargdribble** · 01-15-2007, 03:50 PM

Re: Tired of /nin

Well, uniqueness isn't something you're likely to get a lot of. Keep in mind that if it wasn't /NIN it would be /WAR for everyone. If they nerfed that everyone would be /SAM. If they nerfed that everyone would be /THF... People will naturally gravitate toward the job that offers them the most. For merit PTs you just can't beat /NIN.

However, don't lose heart, because in most other situations a lot of other subs can be useful. I'd suggest you keep all of the subs. A lot of people don't fully utilize all of the subs they have available. There are some great combinations that people almost never use. Be the one to use those combinations and be extra useful.

For me, /NIN is a huge part of my life. I do a lot of tanking as BRD/NIN (and to a much smaller degree BRD/WAR). I've done an obscene amount of rank missions, ZMs, AF, and avatars for people as BRD/NIN when other tanks wouldn't even give them the time of day. If they did something that kept me from being able to use BRD/NIN as a viable tank, that would cripple my ability to help people the way I do.

**Caspian** · 01-15-2007, 04:00 PM

Re: Tired of /nin

I like it, but not for all occasions. If I'm pulling a fast mob (coeurls, raptors, etc.) its a godsend. I'd be dead before I made it to camp if it wasn't for shadows, but other times (dahlmels) I like the added damage from zerk. We'd been in Bibiki for a few days with my static, then decided to move to Ziz in mamook. It had me really wishing I'd changed subjobs when I get there and I'm suddenly hitting for 250/shot w/o zerk. With zerk I could usually get out two shots before having to just stand there for a minute while the tank reestablished hate. I love stroking my e-peen as much as the next guy and seeing huge numbers on my Slugshots, but sometimes its just not worth it. With /nin I would have been shooting for less each shot, but could have shot more w/o pulling hate. Since we usually only have a brd/whm as our main healer, its helpful to not be an MP sponge. Sometimes you just have to do the traditional thing to be the most beneficial to your party.
And other times I just wanna rape mobs, and we have a whm in the party, so I just /WAR and have fun.

**Kholdstare** · 01-15-2007, 05:55 PM

Re: Tired of /nin

I'm not going to lie. I don't like NIN as a sub for me a lot of times. But I intend to take it to 37, because I know I need it in spots. If I was leveling THF, I would definitely have NIN as a sub over WAR, because I'd probably be pulling.

However, there are situations where subbing NIN is just sickening. Like as an early WAR. I've seen people subbing NIN as low as 20, dual wielding axes. It's really sick. Personally, for a WAR sub (1-37), you shouldn't even TOUCH NIN as a sub. /MNK to 30, and /MNK or /THF to 37. Or, if you're gonna sub NIN, at least have the decency to use a superior weapon like a Great Axe.

It just seems like people use endgame meriting as a basis for leveling at low levels, when it flat out doesn't work sometimes.

**Yeargdribble** · 01-15-2007, 11:14 PM

Re: Tired of /nin

I agree that low level /NIN is sickening. It bothers the crap out of me to see people using /NIN that haven't even made it out of the dunes or sub it just because dual wielding looks cool, or worse, because everyone else does it.

I had 29THF/12NIN in the Jungles a while back. She didn't have Utsusemi. She also was only single-wielding (a dagger pre-VB). She was pulling and getting the snot beat out of her and I noticed she was wearing what looked like leather gear and when I checked, it was (but that's off topic).

She couldn't explain it. We asked her about her WAR sub... she said it was 5. This is the type of thing that really bothers me (though I stuck the PT out and didn't make a big deal of it, because I'm just a nice, passive guy ^^).

There are only two good reasons to sub NIN at low levels.

1) Pulling
2) Stat Bonuses

The earliest should be 24 (there are no stat bonus weapons before that anyway) if you plan to be pulling. Beyond that, the only reason to /NIN is to DW things like Mithran Scimitars, Hawker's Knives, Centurion's Sword etc. That only really give viability to a handful of jobs (THF, RNG and BLU come to mind).

I really dislike WAR/NIN at low levels, though it has it's place. I just wish people would stop doing it at 30 because it works at 75.

---------------------

On another topic, I realliy don't think the issue is that people are upset that everyone is /NIN or even that there is a single sub that is the better all around sub for many situations. If NIN weren't costly and difficult to level to 37, I doubt anyone would complain. We'd all be happyt o sub the same thing if it were easy as crap to level and cost nearly nothing.

**Omgwtfbbqkitten** · 01-16-2007, 12:20 AM

Re: Tired of /nin

Originally posted by Yeargdribble View Post

On another topic, I realliy don't think the issue is that people are upset that everyone is /NIN or even that there is a single sub that is the better all around sub for many situations. If NIN weren't costly and difficult to level to 37, I doubt anyone would complain. We'd all be happyt o sub the same thing if it were easy as crap to level and cost nearly nothing.

I'd agree if it weren't for the fact a lot of CORs crutch by on /NIN. NIN was relatively cheap to level in contrast to RNG and COR for me.

All I wanted was to level COR, didn't want to level NIN or RNG, but I did it anyway. Ended up liking RNG, took it to 61 before I ever got back around to COR. It was just supposed to be a subjob.

People think RNG is expensive to level, but not before 50. It's fairly reasonable in cost at the early levels. Hell, Noct Set covers you for almost 25 levels depending on the AFs you end up favoring over them. Then there the gear at 55+ outside AF. Gear is pretty cheap for COR and RNG, its ammo that gets expensive.

But a lot of people will fall back on /NIN just because they have it levelled and don't want to level another subjob. They use the damage mitigation factor to rationalize their way out of levelling other subs. That's really no better than not levelling /NIN just because there's expense.

I'm sure as hell not good with gil in this game, I somehow made it to 75 on both RNG and COR. And I didn't get there by skimping on what was needed.

**Sabaron** · 01-16-2007, 12:32 AM

Re: Tired of /nin

I don't know... I felt like being "unconventional" recently while levelling my BLM sub and took /NIN. The damage off my Elemental tools was quite nice (on the whole better than a NIN/WAR--most of whom can't break 10 damage on a tool, and I was getting 25/50 with a lot better frequency), and I think the efficiency bonus to my spells paid off in lower down time. Plus the shadows allow me one nuke past overnuke enmity, so I can squeeze in one more shot than a standard BLM. The dual wands are also quite brutal.

**Jei** · 01-16-2007, 12:33 AM

Re: Tired of /nin

Blink and Stoneskin will also give you extra shot. But for Blm it's best to use that time for bind/sleep tho.

**Sabaron** · 01-16-2007, 12:38 AM

Re: Tired of /nin

A 30-37 BLM cannot use Blink/Stoneskin. BLM doesn't have that luxury until 38, I should've been more specific. The damage from the tools (damage for 0mp and 4.5sec battle time) was the second most pronounced feature with a bonus +5 INT from the second wand the -30 Resist effect making my standard nukes more consistent being the first. It also enabled me to land Burn nearly flawlessly thus further increasing the INT gap.

**Likibiki** · 01-16-2007, 03:42 AM

Re: Tired of /nin

The only problem with BLM/NIN is that you can't help heal people in a pinch.

Which is why I don't like it.

RDM/NIN in parties pre-ele staves, yes, I can see that one working... but not BLM/NIN.

**Omgwtfbbqkitten** · 01-16-2007, 05:10 AM

Re: Tired of /nin

BLM/NIN actually worked out rather well in some BCNM40s I did (Under Obeservation. Its not entirely bad. Just need a RDM or BST to Kite the main mob and NIN and BLM can take down the compound eyes with relative ease. BLMs can still attack and deal damage since Hex Eye wouldn't take effect with their back turned.

But you'd have to use lower tier nukes for quicker casting and need somone to heal you still. Not impossible for NIN to sub WHM for that.

In EXP its not terribly practical, but in some zones I could see it. Like if you wanted to fight Stego mobs in Aquaducts, Sacarium or Uleguard range.

**ItazuraNhomango** · 01-16-2007, 05:12 AM

Re: Tired of /nin

Originally posted by Likibiki View Post

RDM/NIN in parties pre-ele staves, yes, I can see that one working... but not BLM/NIN.

I was in a Garlaige Citadel party on my BLM/WHM one time with a JP Tarutaru BLM/NIN. We camped by the Banishing Gate #1.

He used ginger cookies, I used melon pie and melon juice. We both had decent gear. We both MB'ed. I don't remember the rest of the party, but there wasn't a real need for me to heal party members much, though I did cast a few cure's to be polite.

He creamed me in terms of damage. (I didn't save the parser results, but remember grumbling at it.) That's even after I got wiser and ride on his coattail of Ichi level Nujutsu elemental attack/enfeeb to lower resist rate, just like him.

Moreover, the BLM/NIN took less damage than I did thanks to Utsusemi, even with rampant over-nuking.

BLM/NIN works.

(At least, at certain levels, given there are enough healing power in the party.)

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