Newb vs. Noob & Elistis vs. ????

[Icemage]

Re: Newb vs. Noob & Elistis vs. ????

I'd say many things about Yeargdribble, but whether you classify him as one thing or another, he knows what he's talking about, and has the playing experience to prove it. I've never known him to talk down to anyone here that didn't honestly deserve it (I don't really count BG forums since it's a totally different environment over there and you really have to project a different image to survive).

It's refreshing to see someone who has endgame experience who is willing to share their experience; most people who are not involved in endgame really don't understand how much endgame LS's resemble secret societies. A lot of endgamers don't talk publicly about what they do, much less how they do it. Blue Gartyr is one of the few places where endgamers can kick back and shoot the breeze while trading (mostly harmless) tips on the more exotic strategies that apply only to endgame.

---

As far as elitism goes, you don't have to be level 75, just misinformed. I've met a fair number of people who were elitist jerks who didn't even have a single job past level 60. Elitism is more noticeable in level 75+ players, but they don't have a corner on the market.


Icemage

[Murphie]

Re: Newb vs. Noob & Elistis vs. ????

I actually completely agree with Yeargdribble re: LBR. It's a nice idea, but having people sound off about things that they don't really know about or fully understand is pretty frustrating. I've long since stopped listening, because as earnest and nice as the folks who run it seem, it's not really my kind of show.

The more I think about it, maybe I'm an elitist. I mean, I'm quiet about it, but I do like things to be done "right", and I have little patience for people who hide behind supposed ignorance in order to avoid having to do things well.

People who genuinely don't know what's what? I am totally in their corner though. I'm more than happy to point someone in the right direction, and I do it with a smile. But I don't coddle.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Newb vs. Noob & Elistis vs. ????

I know that BBQ has had a personal beef with me since I did join in some 'potshots' on BG particularly about LBR. LBR is a great concept, but in the time that I listened to the show (the first 8 or so eps, me and my wife were actually anxious to hear the show every week), I noticed that they had a very large amount of misinformation.

I also mentioned that I dislike Sayl and I'm not gonna hide that. He injects and speaks very slowly and ignorantly about topics that he knows nothing about, which is the same reaso I despise most of Alla's community. There's no point in someone who's highest job is 25 even discussing anything about endgame. Ainero is about the only person on that show that spoke level headedly based mostly on fact.

Well you called one of my friends gay, and I generally find the loose usage of terms of that to be immature and ignorant. Can't expect to attack people's friends and then act surprised why some people don't like you.

And, again, you point out there was misinformation and blast for that, yet you don't do what our community does and submit corrections. You have no place to condemn people for what they do if you don't make an attempt to correct them first.

And, last I checked, you haven't done that, so by your own definition, you're a hypocrite. They seek corrections and make them as needed.

And the show isn't about endgame, its about the whole scope of the game. I think having a "newbie" adds insight where the "elite" player may actually forget some situations. The community over there is way more casual, its not some place for endgamers-only. BG expected it to be all about endgame and their interests. World doesn't revolve around FFXI endgame.

Wut? You and I are both painfully blunt. You are highly opinionated about thinking people should be able to play however the hell they want even if that sucks, and I'm opinionated that people should play with some degree of competency if they are going to be playing with other players.

You misinterpet my intentions. I don't object to the efficent style of TP or manaburn, I just realize it has unfortunate side effects to other players (like not getting invites) and I'm willing to be flexible to different situations. Does that "suck?" I don't think it does. I think that's more along the lines of being considerate toward others.

Its just a game, when you get into only looking at a bottom line - that's a job.

You tell people it's okay to be so-so and do things like wear full AF if it makes them feel good. "

I'd love to see where I said that. Link it please, but no selective quoting.

Yay, more Sandy Vagina, courtesy of BBQ, who is totally not an elitist, guys. Or an asshole. Totally not!

Ah such high class insight. Some people think their post counts mean something to their status on a forum and that means they can say whatever they like. Those people are noobs.

[Icemage]

Re: Newb vs. Noob & Elistis vs. ????

I'll take a moment here and mention that the personal attacks in this thread need to stop. I don't care who started it, but if this continues, I'm more than happy to end it, one way or another. Please take your conflicts about who you think is what to PMs.

Do I make myself clear?


Icemage

[Yeargdribble]

Re: Newb vs. Noob & Elistis vs. ????

I've actually submitted an e-mail correction. After a particular show I recall having quite a long list and decided there's no way they could effectively correct these things as it was without every other show being a full correction of comments made in a previous show.

I appreciate that it's a show focusing on the full scope of the game, but even that is hard to do. They would need consultants with experience in each job to keep them on track. If they are talking specifically in an area in reference to a job that none of them have experience with, it gets ugly fast. I don't think the BGers really wanted the show to revolve around their interest, but rather found the amount of misinformation laughable.

Perhaps I take this game more seriously than most. You can say I make it into a job, but honestly I enjoy what I do IRL. Even if it is a job, that doesn't mean it can't be fun. I like to do things well. I've never been the type to do things so-so, so even in the game I tend to take tha avenue.

I'd love to see where I said that. Link it please, but no selective quoting.

No direct quotes, but this was in reference to some of your commentary on the DRG forums. You seemed to be defending the use of full AF there.


On a side note, I really enjoy the community here better than probably anywhere else. It doesn't have as many idiots as Alla and doesn't have such a narrow focus like BG. Most things here are positive and there's no such thing as getting rated down for having an opinion. Even though the people here aren't all the best at what they do, they are pretty receptive.

This is the first time I've seen a thread fall into a near flame war lol

[Aeolus]

Re: Newb vs. Noob & Elistis vs. ????

Even though the people here aren't all the best at what they do, they are pretty receptive.

Jeez, stop the insults already and fix your sig, I want to check your site but it goes to log in screen with ur name in the bar ):

[Yeargdribble]

Re: Newb vs. Noob & Elistis vs. ????

Ooh thanks for the tip. Didn't know I hada ghetto link ^^

EDIT: Fixed ^^

btw, when I read that quote is sure does come off as hateful, but I'm sure you know what I mean lol.

[Kholdstare]

Re: Newb vs. Noob & Elistis vs. ????

Really, one has to ask how far one can go before he's considered an elitist? I've actually withheld comments for fear of causing drama in a party (and the guy really REALLY deserved it. When most of your gear is lvl 30s despite being in the 50s, when you don't know how to set up SATA after, what, 20 or so levels?; And when you blow 2 hour to brag about your 272 Double Thrust despite being vastly outdamaged by just about everyone, I think I'd have a right to say something)

Seriously, people blur the line between realistic expectations (having Erase, having stealth meds, etc.) and unrealistic expectations (having Astral Rings, Monster Signa, etc.) and furthermore start taking things as personal attacks.

In a sense, there are several types of interactions in this game. Newbies talking to other Newbies, Newbies asking help from established players, n00bs talking crap to anyone and everyone.

But an established player can easily be mistaken for an elitist by a thin-skinned player.

It's like it goes in as "You should really have better gear, it's not hard to get." and "You are horrible at this game and at life. Kill yourself" comes out.

[Murphie]

Re: Newb vs. Noob & Elistis vs. ????

Why do people always go for my post count before anything else? Who cares how many posts I have? Well, except for the people who always bring it up (note: not me), I guess.

Jesus Christ, folks. Grow up.

Personally, I don't appreciate much of anything that BBQ has had to offer to this thread, but besides a comment about his (or her, I have no idea) habit of getting all worked up over some comments on the internet, I haven't really slung any personal attacks. Certainly nothing to warrant his ridiculous quote rants. But anyway. Totally unnecessary on all sides, regardless.

A lot of people seem to have the wrong idea of what an elitist is. And some people seem to take their campaign against these perceived elitists a bit too far, in my opinion, which just ends up making them look as ridiculous as the people that they are campaigning against.

Someone who is mean to you isn't automatically an elitist. Not all assholes are elitists, and not all elitists are assholes. Stop worrying about people who are mean to you, and if someone holds you to an unrealistic standard, then that's their problem, and not yours. This is, in the end, a game. So, you know, have some fun with it, folks.

[Jei]

Re: Newb vs. Noob & Elistis vs. ????

Personally I don't think it's fair to judge someone elitist from their post on internet. Because, after all, people are asking for info about how to better play their jobs. So any end game players will have their opinion to add to those topics obviously.

People are serious about the game in a different level.
I know I play good and I know what items are good for me, but I don't care much about the maths and calculation behind them.
Some players will care about the calculation and use them to back up their arguement, and there's nothing wrong with that either.
After all, we're all trying to better our jobs.

Trying to get on other players' bussiness in game without being asked for is a totally different thing. That's what I would call elitist.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Newb vs. Noob & Elistis vs. ????

No direct quotes, but this was in reference to some of your commentary on the DRG forums. You seemed to be defending the use of full AF there.

Never said it. I said its not a crime to walk around Jeuno/Whitegate in your full AF or to use it on a mission/farming or to wear it into an Assault before starting. I said you don't have to satisfy the number-crunching fashion police outside of EXP.

Here's was my summary from that thread:

Don't let these types of people get to you. You play FFXI and let them play whatever game they think they're playing. If you're in a job and you really love it, you'll do what's best for that job within your means and take the time to do so. However, it doesn't mean you have to fufill people's expectations on appearance off the battlefield. To hell with those people and just have fun.

You say you're willing to help provide accurate information, I'll hold you to it. However, the sentiment is rather incomplete. I personally didn't care for what was said, nor did it bother me very much. The people who criticized without submitting corrections discredited themselves. But I did know who it impacted and I will defend my friends.

I'd appreciate it more if you took the next step, but I can't make you do it.

People are serious about the game in a different level.
I know I play good and I know what items are good for me, but I don't care much about the maths and calculation behind them.
Some players will care about the calculation and use them to back up their arguement, and there's nothing wrong with that either.
After all, we're all trying to better our jobs.

I'm much the same, I don't care for the number-crunching. I just know what to do, how to apply my job and what tools I need to do so. I'm not here to get to 75 ASAP (well, I'm finally there in a the job I wanted come to think of it, so w/e) I already lost like 2k of what I made today doing endgame stuff. No biggie.

I've seen people spaz about losing 1.5k... I've killed my BRD just to wipe a food effect. I'd do the same to COR. Much of that is just to do with the number of times I've had to HP as BST... its either bring your own RR or HP anyway. I just don't care anymore.

Hell, I levelled DRG to 60 just to see a taru in the AF. Haven't levelled it since. Some people would say thats a big waste of time, but they haven't seen people freak out and get all happy about a taru in DRG AF. He was a 75 BRD, too. All I do on him is craft now.

Two years of work and its a mule. And what was a mule is now the main.

[Icemage]

Re: Newb vs. Noob & Elistis vs. ????

This is how you deal with elitists:
Prove them wrong.

Case in point: I showed up to a Fafnir camp a couple months ago as WHM75/BRD37 after looking at my LS's current roster online and seeing what jobs were available. I got tons of ribbing about it even from my LS members (and wow you can't even imagine how many people /checked me to see what my job combination was), but the chuckles stopped after I emerged at the end of the fight after single-handedly keeping an entire melee party alive with no Refresh or other support using Paeon III as a backup to Regen I/II/III and mostly being able to avoid using Cure V and Curagas.


Icemage

[Yeargdribble]

Re: Newb vs. Noob & Elistis vs. ????

The above is a great example of what you can do when you step outside the box. My wife has used WHM/BRD in Limbus quite a few times when she was placed in a mage heavy PT. Anyone that thinks 1MP/tick Ballad isn't gonna help that much probably hasn't own'd a Refresh body. She initially got teased about it, but in the end it turned out to be very efficient and helpful.

There are many such combos that work really well, especially for minimal number work on a particular BC or NM, and people don't even think to use them.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Newb vs. Noob & Elistis vs. ????

Elitist are usually good if not the best players.

[Kirsteena]

Re: Newb vs. Noob & Elistis vs. ????

Elitist are usually good if not the best players.

Thats as maybe, but other people have the right to learn at their own pace...