should we be paying for raises??

[DR2D2]

Re: should we be paying for raises??

I agree any mage shouldn't be charging if it is a 1-time thing or u are in the same area/zone and are not in the middle of something. When I level my jobs usually I stick to zones where i'll have easy access to getting back quickly-or just take the time to get back there(on the way i'll kill gobs--at least I get some gill in the process). I am more talking about the times where it seems like the same person is needing raises mult times (say 3-4 times in 30min) for themselfs(and not for different people in the same zone). Like I said eariler I would never think of charging anyone for any raise/sneak/invis,(since I wouldn't want someone to charge me). 15,000gill to teleport out of whiteshead?(when I get warp i'll be going there to help out)------last point:why is it ok to charge for teleports, but is not considered all right to charge for anything else(shouldn't we view teleporting in the same way u do raise?)

[Yeargdribble]

Re: should we be paying for raises??

It's funny that we don't charge for raises honestly. What is it? You are charging someone money so that you can cast a spell on them. What is tele-whoring? Charging someone money so you can cast a spell on them.

We don't bat an eye at the thought ot tele-taxi charges. However, when it comes to raises, for some reason it is just horrible immoral and wrong to consider charging for such a thing.

I'm sure this just comes from out societal norms. You obviously will pay a taxi driver to get you somewhere, but if you passed out in public and a doctor kneeled over you and told you how much it would cost to help you... you'd think he was nuts. That's real life though. In the game, it's just casting a spell and raising is no more difficult than teleporting.


Now I'm not in favor of charging for raises. I give them free all the time, but it's just some food for thought. I think it's odd how we would think it an outrage for someone to charge for raise but not for teleports.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: should we be paying for raises??

Raising is a courtesy.
Teleportation is a service.

When I did play a character with mage subs, I never asked to be paid for a raise, but I wouldn't turn down gil if it was offered.

WHMs who demand payment for a raise are annoying. If that's your attitude toward others, if you picked the role to take advantage of the misfortune of other players, then you need to pay everyone who swings a sword, provokes or uses ammo/tools to help you level.

Compensation for raises on other MMOs made a lot more sense, but it was due to game design functions. Armor and weapons in some MMOs degraded over time, so they required repair, thus meaning tanks and melee took the lionshare of the loot to do so. Mages could get by on less, but were generally hard up for cash. So I kinda understood the need to charge to be rezzed there.

But also in that kind of game environment, "Need before greed" in regards to PT loot was always respected. If a rare drop happened and a certain classes in PT could use it, it was free lot to those classes, a warrior would not try to collect mage gear to sell it. If no one could use or needed, free lot for everyone.

Thats vastly different in FFXI. Nothing degrades and people are just greedy in general.

[Gentoo]

Re: should we be paying for raises??

This situation came up in my linkshell last night 1 of my linkshell mates was partying in the dunes and members of his party needed a raise no more than 5min after needing a 1st raise)

As others have pointed out, no one needed a Raise. If they had just HP'ed, they'd have earned back the XP they lost in the first 2-3 fights, which would have been less time than waiting for the Raise weakness to wear off.

The problem I've seen lately is that it's not a case of people worrying about a trivial amount of XP, but that they've purposely not set their HP at Selbina/Valkurm Dunes and a raise is the only way to stay with the party without wasting a huge amount of everyone's time traveling back to the Dunes. One of few practices that will make be come unhinged in the game.

Like Icemage, I'll help out with a Raise if I'm not in a hurry, or otherwise currently engaged. I rarely(**) ask for or accept compensation, but the gesture is always appreciated on the rare instance that it's offered.

On the flip side, I always make sure to offer a reward to anyone that raises someone in my party. My reasoning is a mixture of the golden rule, and just doing the right thing. I appreciate the gesture of a reward (even though I won't take it), so do unto others... Likewise, should I get a Raise for a party member or myself, I know that another player has gone out of their way to help me out, and offering fair recompense for a good deed is just my personal philosophy.

(**)Okay, so there was this one time I paid an exceptionally high price for a Chocobo in La Theine to ride out to Jugner, and I immediately got a plea for a Raise in Valkurm. I explained the destination was out of my way, and Chocobos were expensive. I offered to come out and do the Raise if they paid for a replacement Chocobo.

[Jei]

Re: should we be paying for raises??

Raising is a courtesy.
Teleportation is a service.

Well said. I whole heartly agree.

[DR2D2]

Re: should we be paying for raises??

I see your point in that raise is more a compasion thing and teleports are a service. What would escorting people be considered(remember I am casting mult spells often times within a few secs of each other and also trying to prevent anyone from aggroing--including myself)---Like I said eariler I don't expect to be paid anyone time I help anyone out(I see it as I became a mage to help people-not get a job I could make money on)(thats what real life is for).

[Aksannyi]

Re: should we be paying for raises??

I had a White Mage in my party while doing ZM5 through Ifrit's Cauldron who said that she would not R3 anyone under 70 without payment. I thought that was pretty shitty, considering that most of the party members (myself included) were 65-70 and could have benefitted from an R3 the same as someone who was 70+. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but R3 does save more xp for people over 50 than does R2, and what makes a 70+'s time invested in experience more important than mine? I know it's more of a loss at 70+, but I still thought that was a really rude thing to say when the rest of us were all in it for the same thing ... getting the mission done.

Anyway, that seemed like an overly stingy way to be with your MP, especially with (hello, me) a Red Mage right there to refresh you and help you regain it faster.

That's someone I've taken note not to party with again.

[DR2D2]

Re: should we be paying for raises??

If they are coming along to do a mission I feel that as there part in the party, they should be willing to use there magic to benefit the WHOLE party---not just certain members. I would also avoid that person in the future. Also, are u sure they wern't part of a RMT(less raises=less people to compete with for the drops)

[Susurrus]

Re: should we be paying for raises??

I generally don't do raises if I have to trek far (unless I'm going that way of course), or I'm busy. If I'm in an exp group, I'll usually raise if the pt is close by or can tractor their dead close by.

As for charging, if it costs me to get to you, I'll ask for compensation. Otherwise I don't ask. But if someone offers, I won't decline.

[Yeargdribble]

Re: should we be paying for raises??

So... just to play devil's advocate here...

I think someone asking to be paid for raising is doing so in bad taste and obviously most people agree. Kitten says it's a courtesy. I'm fine with that definition.

So why don't people complain about having to pay for a teleport? The argument with raising is that if you are right there, why not? However, couldn't you say the same about some WHM sitting in a city? If they are just chilling there with /BLM and their HP is set there... why shouldn't they just do it for free...

...as a courtesy?

[Mhurron]

Re: should we be paying for raises??

I see no problem with asking for payment for a Raise when it's someone not in your party/alliance asking for it. Asking you to go out of your way to raise someone is no different then asking someone to teleport you somewhere.

[Lucky and Elizabeth]

1 time with no response is basically it. Asking again is badgering - either that person is AFK or ignoring you.
Icemage

One time I waited for a raise and the nhad to ru nto bathroom and when I got back someone had asked me if I wanted one and then left.
Waited for 30 minutes and left for 2.

So... just to play devil's advocate here...
I think someone asking to be paid for raising is doing so in bad taste and obviously most people agree. Kitten says it's a courtesy. I'm fine with that definition.
So why don't people complain about having to pay for a teleport? The argument with raising is that if you are right there, why not? However, couldn't you say the same about some WHM sitting in a city? If they are just chilling there with /BLM and their HP is set there... why shouldn't they just do it for free...
...as a courtesy?

I have never paid for a tele. Other people shout that they will pay for one, I just search ouit a high lv WHM or BLM/WHM and simply ask them for a tele and most of the time I get one. If not I just jump on the choco and go there my self

[Aksannyi]

Re: should we be paying for raises??

If they are coming along to do a mission I feel that as there part in the party, they should be willing to use there magic to benefit the WHOLE party---not just certain members. I would also avoid that person in the future. Also, are u sure they wern't part of a RMT(less raises=less people to compete with for the drops)

If it were Dynamis or something like that where drops were an issue, I might have thought that, but it was just a Zilart Mission run. We had to kill two Opo-opos and click on a headstone. If we had attempted to kill Ash while we were down there then maybe I could have seen that (of course I don't know what he drops), but trying to kill him would have been suicide. So drops weren't an issue, the guy was just being an ass.

[Icemage]

Re: should we be paying for raises??

So... just to play devil's advocate here...

I think someone asking to be paid for raising is doing so in bad taste and obviously most people agree. Kitten says it's a courtesy. I'm fine with that definition.

I agree, but if it's costing me money out of my pocket (i.e. I have to give up a 3000+ gil chocobo that I already paid for to go help you, as in the above situation), then I think it's totally fair to ask for compensation for travel costs. Otherwise, my policy is to refuse any raise request that isn't directly in my path.

So why don't people complain about having to pay for a teleport? The argument with raising is that if you are right there, why not? However, couldn't you say the same about some WHM sitting in a city? If they are just chilling there with /BLM and their HP is set there... why shouldn't they just do it for free...

...as a courtesy?

There are a lot of people that complain about paying for a teleport. There are indeed a few people out there that teleport for free, even for complete strangers.

That said, it is a pain in the butt when someone asks you for a teleport, then wastes 15 minutes of your time getting their party gathered, equipped, etc. Repeat that several to many times an hour and tell me you wouldn't ask for something in return for that sort of hassle.

That and every WHM in existence over level 36 is sick and tired of getting /tells suggesting that it is our civic duty to teleport people for free because "that's what white mages should be doing".


Icemage

[Lucky and Elizabeth]

Re: should we be paying for raises??

That and every WHM in existence over level 36 is sick and tired of getting /tells suggesting that it is our civic duty to teleport people for free because "that's what white mages should be doing".


Icemage

If they say no when I ask or just ignor me I just grab a choco and go tehre my self. It would be nice to get tehre faster but sometimes actually going there is faster then waiting for a tele.