About Elitists

[Raydeus]

Re: About Elitists

BRDs have been dethroned by CORs for Manaburn anyway.

Healers Roll = +hMP while resting
Evoker's Roll = Refresh
Wizard's Roll = Magic Attack Bonus
Warlock's Roll = Magic Accuracy bonus

And then there's the Quick Draw, which a COR would use just like a BRD would Threnody in the manaburn scenario, but they could use them to enhance the effects of spells like Gravity be part of a sleep order with Light Shot.

All this and we can pull, too.

What you say could be true, but I don't think you and the other 5 CORs in the server are enough to cover for all the BLMs out there.

[Eiyoko]

Re: About Elitists

There is a line to draw that people must see.

"This job is good for this."

and

"omg u must haev this job 4 this or ur screwd u noob"

So some idiot tells me without Fenrir I can't put good buffs on the party. What they really mean to say is that they rely far too heavily on Fenrir's buffs (which are dependant on the moon phase anyway) to even think that any other avatar will do well.

I put party enthunder and hastega on my party and watched the robber crabs die horrible deaths.

But what I get far worse is this. People that expect a summoner to have all the avatars right off the bat:

Me: (Um, why are we doing a gravitation SC with a DARKNESS magic burst against clearly dark-resistant imps? I don't think I'll ever know...) Who should I MB with?
Member: diab
Me: But I don't have Diabolos....
*2 minutes later*
Me: Who should I MB with? You never told me
Member: yea i did i said diab
Me: But I don't have Diabolos...
*shorter than two mintues later*
Member: y dont u summon diab
Me: I just told you I don't have diabolos...
*even shorter amount of time later*
Member: can u please summon diab???
Me: (at this point I've had enough) I ALREADY FREAKING TOLD YOU THREE TIMES I DO NOT HAVE DIABOLOS GET IT IN YOUR HEAD ALREADY!!!

After that this occasionally happens:

Member: noob

or in one case in the 40's, this happened to me ("member" being someone who really doesn't know how to tank and doesn't follow my advice when I give it to him 5 times over)

Member: then go get him
Me: What, like, NOW?
Member: yeah lol
Member: and come back when ur done
Me: *explains that getting Diabolos does not happen in five minutes*
Member: *ignores*
Nice BLM in the party with me: Come on, let's leave.
Me: Yeah.
*Eiyoko and <blm name here> leave the party*
Member: dude ur such a f***ing noob
Me: *ignores*

I've gotten used to it, so I probably don't yell anymore. x.x

I wouldn't talk about how other jobs solo if I were you - especially if you haven't tried it and mastered it yourself. I don't know what you've got leveled but whatever.

As for whatever idiot said "i don't party with drgs", I have a good feeling that he hasn't met any good ones yet. Slip me into a party with him and see what happens >.>

There are also those who yell at BSTs for stealing their exp spots. Since when did the spot have your name on it? What's with those babies anyway? Their parents apparently didn't teach them how to share or something along those lines.

But most importantly, I hate hearing people complain about how SE "nerfs" some jobs. I don't give a care. They do it because the job is being abused one way or another, i.e. it's too powerful (or way too popular in Ranger's case...I did searches across my server. 75 Rangers had more players than most other 75 DD combined. I'm not saying I hate rangers though, I love 'em. ^^)

Every job has a way of being great. Yes, I'm talking to you people who like the "lolDRG" "lolDRK" "lolPUP" "lolMNK" stereotypes and the like.

It's not the job's fault. It's the person playing it.

Anyone whom cannot understand that statement is a...no, I don't think I'll say it.

There are even those that won't let certain important members of their party leave even if they're sick. One day I got a headache and told my party I needed to go. Take note that I was playing main healer as SMN.

The reply?

"Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo*breath*oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!"

...something along the lines of that.

So I simply responded, "Okay, fine. I'll stay. But that's assuming you already know that I'm in no condition to do my job well right now and if I stay for much longer you know you're liable to get killed because I can't think straight and I might end up trying to heal the erucas instead."

They let me leave. ^.~

As for manaburn and TP spam, ever thought about maybe it came along because people were too lazy or something? Just something I heard.

[Sabaron]

Re: About Elitists

I've never heard of lolMNK before... Has it become now that the only valid melee DDs are NIN and WAR?

As far as SMN having all avatars goes--SMN is the classic example of the truly advanced job. Before the 20-cap avatar patch, you would've needed a 60+ job or some high-level leeching just to get the celestials. Now, you can get all but two avatars. I've never seen too much benefit in using Enthundaga over other SMN buffs... I'd rather have a Ruby or, on certain mobs, save the enhancing buff for something like Spring Water to get rid of AoE status nastiness. Rolling Thunder is quaint, like Frost Armor, but not all that useful as a buff. It's hard to beat buffs like Noctoshield and Hastega, but then again, you can cast Hastega. Ecliptic Growl is a nice buff. It doesn't get weaker with moon phase it just gets "different". Ecliptic Howl is only good close to a full moon. I'm pretty nice and easy going, but if you're missing Eclipse Bite at level 65, I would have to consider you to be gimped.

This is not elitism... Well... I suppose it is. The biggest thing that irks me about certain players is that they have not done the prerequiste work to be a member of their job. For instance. If I invite a RDM, I assume he'll have Dispel, if he doesn't.... I don't invite him. A White mage needs to have Erase. I went out and bought it... and then later picked up a scroll on Royal Jelly and sold it back. You can too. Summoner and Blue Mage require rigorous story-line advancement via a high-level job to be good at. It's very nice that you've risen to 68 without Fenrir and Diabolos and you may be very good with the elemental avatars, but the fact remains that you're missing your two best spells. I wouldn't fault someone for declining to invite you, unfortunately. Not having little perks is ok (expensive trifles that don't really make you that much better). The simple fact is that if I have a choice between you and a SMN with a second high-level job with all avatars..despite the fact that you may be a good summoner, it is likely that your competition is just as good, so I go with the one who put the time in on another job to make his SMN all that it can be.

That is not elitism... It is optimization.

When I say elitism, it represents an attitude that hovers around certain people--this is not as common as I think you are making it to be. I have found most people very nice and am only occasionally harrased for not having unneccessary googaws like Serket's Ring (which is useful for about 30 seconds every 10 minutes). I am referring to a specific case which I have mentioned ehre previously. The NIN tank suggested I go out and buy upwards of 10mil in gear just for Convert while he, himself, failed to keep hate and wouldn't throw a tool other than Shihei. He had what could be considered to be good gear for his level, but he wasn't tanking--hate was bouncing. The BLM stole hate with Elemental Enfeebles. I stole hate with one Cure III. The DRG was basically tanking most of the time, and he decides it's my fault when everyone dies (I died right after he did for casting too many cures). I have never missed a spell... I stopped levelling White Mage at 32 until I could afford to buy Erase and I spent 3 days getting together the money for Dispel (it's still expensive, but it is no longer as much as it once was). I quested all my Questable scrolls, and I have every spirit pact except for Dark which, to me, is a toy. (All of the spirit pacts are toys IMO with the exception of Light Spirit who can be quite useful at times). A Monster Signa is a Toy. Mary's Horn is not a toy, but it is not a great necessity. +1 versions of most equipment is not necessary, but nice if you can afford it (remember you can trade in most gear when you upgrade--I don't trade in multiple-of-ten cap gear). As a SMN68 there is a good chance that you can get into a Fenrir Party and you should be able to complete CoP story line to the point of Diabolos with some effort. Getting Diabolos is within your reach since you have already come so far. Just remember that though you may have skill... you are not operating at your full potential. This is the reason rich players buy fancy things like Mahatma gear. Most of them won't complain that you're wearing Errant or don't have a Vermy... but if you're still milking RSE and haven't completed your AF gear (I met such a 65th level WHM who was also wearing a Parana Shield and some...very...low...level...hammer)--you're not going to get any sympathy from me.

[Sabaron]

Re: About Elitists

I wanted to add something:

My LS is relatively large for a non-end-game LS. I don't like XP parties. They're not fun. It's almost impossible to "socialize" between kills anyway, so there is really not a lot of social value in it since, as a RDM, I have to be casting, casting, casting or resting when I'm not (my resting is always interrupted... sometimes I'm lucky enough to get a tick or two though). I like doing things for and with my LS mates. As far as I'm concerned, most other people have to help me in order to receive my help. I've been in bad parties before and I hate it. When XP is crawling at 2-4k/hour I find the earliest most convenient excuse to leave. At higher levels, it's not worthwhile to take 6-12 hours to make a level. That's time I could be crafting to make money for another piece of nifty gear that adds to my usability, farming some Rare/Ex item, or helping my friends get things they need. I don't want to be in an XP party. I'm only XPing because it enables me to do other things. XP is probably the most boring activity in the game. It is so repetitive that I would prefer to repeat as few times as possible. XP is the only game activity that can put me to sleep during my normal activity cycle. I refuse to party with parties I know to be gimp after asking about their configuration and target. My worst XP party most recently was with a bunch of high-rank JPs in, probably the most remote BFE zone I've ever been to--Dragon's Aery. The party could not kill anything. We had two RDMs healing (myself /WHM, and the other /BLM). I ached every time a spider threw a web because there came 4 slows and me, without Divine Veil, of course, the only Eraser, had to slowly wipe away those debuffs only to have them recast while I was doing so... XP rate? 2.5k/hr. No thanks. If that ever happens again, you can call me an elitist and /blist me as I exit stage left from your crappy party. I'm sorry, I have better things to do.

[Yeargdribble]

Re: About Elitists

"member" being someone who really doesn't know how to tank and doesn't follow my advice when I give it to him 5 times over

Oh the irony... Almost nobody likes being told how to play their job. You say he doesn't know how to play his job and you even tell him over and over to do something, yet I have the feeling from your post that you don't take criticsm and advice directed toward you very well.

A big problem these days is that you can't give advice to people. It doesn't matter if you are a master at the job or have a lot of experience. Offer even a hint of advice and you'll get slapped with "OMFG ELITIST!!!", or someone saying they want to play their way because it's their 12.95 blah blah.

As for manaburn and TP spam, ever thought about maybe it came along because people were too lazy or something? Just something I heard.

Congratulations on falling into the Zammite mentality. It's all hearsay. I'm assuming you don't have a job that can TP burn and perhaps don't have a job at 75. Based on hearsay you call us lazy for it. Well, ask any BRD that TP burns... it's a LOT more work than a standard PT. Yet, be that as it may, I prefer TP burns because they offer the most XP/hr. Why is it lazy to want more XP/hr? I don't understand why it's so elitist and lazy to simply want to get more out of your time in the game.

Sabaron pretty much nailed the REAL reason people do things like TP burns. XP is boring. However, XPing allows you to participate in the more fun aspects of the game. Getting more efficient XP means you spend less hours in XP and more hours doing fun things.

I doubt there is anyone that participates regularly in activities that they may die in (i.e. Dynamis) that would prefer a slower PT. Generally the only people complaining are either the ones left out, or the people that simply don't get it because they don't do anything that regularly puts them at risk for losing a sizable amount of XP.

[Icemage]

Re: About Elitists

Aw, come on... give Dragon's Aery a chance. The Bark Tarantulas are, of course, horrible... but the Darters are amazingly good XP with the right setup (and assuming Fafnir/Nidhogg isn't walking around the room - not that you wouldn't have warning far in advance of that happening since there'd be 200 people waiting for him to apear).

I look at XP parties (ones below level 75) as being chances to socialize with people that I don't normally rub shoulders with. It helps keep me grounded, and while the XP isn't always fantastic, it also keeps me from getting locked into my own little world and reminds me that there really are nice players outside of my immediate circle of friends.

EDIT: Totally echo what Yeargdribble posted above. TP burns are not the "lazy way" if you're a Bard or (especially) a Red Mage. I liken playing RDM in a TP-burn merit party to being a circus juggler. Just as a juggler must keep objects in the air, a RDM in a TP burn must keep buffs on the party at all times and make sure everyone stays healthy in the process. In return, you get a lot more XP than you normally would - I racked up 31,000 XP in around 2.5 hours last night.


Icemage

[Sabaron]

Re: About Elitists

We were camping near the zone -behind- two spider pops, so they had to be pulled first. I'd never been there and I assumed the high-rank characters who brought me knew what they were doing. They would pull darters after the tarantulas, but my gimpy Barwatera off sub didn't really save me too many Curaga II's on Cursed Sphere and I spent most of the time out of mana with Convert down as did the other RDM. The party setup was not appropriate for the zone.

Sadly, the only time I get a chance to type anything that doesn't scroll off the screen in about 2 seconds during XP occurs after someone dies .

The only bad thing about TP burn, for me, is that I don't get to burn any.

[Aeolus]

Re: About Elitists

Congratulations on falling into the Zammite mentality. It's all hearsay. I'm assuming you don't have a job that can TP burn and perhaps don't have a job at 75. Based on hearsay you call us lazy for it. Well, ask any BRD that TP burns... it's a LOT more work than a standard PT. Yet, be that as it may, I prefer TP burns because they offer the most XP/hr. Why is it lazy to want more XP/hr? I don't understand why it's so elitist and lazy to simply want to get more out of your time in the game.
Sabaron pretty much nailed the REAL reason people do things like TP burns. XP is boring. However, XPing allows you to participate in the more fun aspects of the game. Getting more efficient XP means you spend less hours in XP and more hours doing fun things.
I doubt there is anyone that participates regularly in activities that they may die in (i.e. Dynamis) that would prefer a slower PT. Generally the only people complaining are either the ones left out, or the people that simply don't get it because they don't do anything that regularly puts them at risk for losing a sizable amount of XP.

So true and Id like to add I dont find TP burning any easier than a "Normal" PT setup as mnk, its just faster. And WTF @ lolMnk...

[Celeal]

Re: About Elitists

Geez @ lolMnk .... haven't seen this for a long time. During the first 2 years of NA release Mnk had a tough time among the NA community, it was not very funny~

[Mhurron]

Re: About Elitists

I look at XP parties (ones below level 75) as being chances to socialize with people that I don't normally rub shoulders with. It helps keep me grounded, and while the XP isn't always fantastic, it also keeps me from getting locked into my own little world and reminds me that there really are nice players outside of my immediate circle of friends.

Which would be fine if a lot of EXP parties actually talked to each other, but they usually don't. So it's better to be picky about what parties you end up in to get as much EXP as fast as you can before falling asleep out of boredom.

The best parties I've had usually were not because of getting a tonne of EXP but because it was 6 people having fun. Only a few parties from 70-75 were both fast EXP and fun, not that I had a lot of time to actually type anything once an efficient party got underway. Still, EXP is boring because most people do not take this opportunity to socialize.

EDIT: Totally echo what Yeargdribble posted above. TP burns are not the "lazy way" if you're a Bard or (especially) a Red Mage. I liken playing RDM in a TP-burn merit party to being a circus juggler. Just as a juggler must keep objects in the air, a RDM in a TP burn must keep buffs on the party at all times and make sure everyone stays healthy in the process. In return, you get a lot more XP than you normally would - I racked up 31,000 XP in around 2.5 hours last night.

This is the only reason non-social parties don't make me fall asleep.

[Yeargdribble]

Re: About Elitists

In low PTs it's difficult to socialize between the macro spam.

SMN> Terrestrial Avatar who commandeth the Rainbow cometh forth!! {Carbuncle}
BLM> From the powers of Thor I SMITE THEE!!! {Thundaga}
Me> So guys, what's up?
SAM> I bring forth the ancient arts!! {Meditate}
SMN> Thank you for serving me Carbuncle. I {Release} you!
SAM> TP = 68% <call2>
BLM> From the depths of the sea come the waves!!! {Waterga}
SMN> Cometh forth from the rocky crag master of Earth! {Titan}
PLD> Hey Nest Beetle, your momma's so fat... {Provoke}
WHM> I have a big bandaid for you!! {Cure} III
SAM> TP = 89% <call2>
SMN> Thank you for serving me Titan. I {Release} you!
Me> So...
WHM> I have a big bandaid for you!! {Cure} III
PLD> He Nest Beetle, Look at my titties!!! {Flash}
SAM> TP = 104% <call2>
BLM> From the powers of Thor I SMITE THEE!!! {Thundaga}
SAM> Lashing out with the ancient arts!! {Ready to start skillchain}
WHM> I have a big bandaid for you!! {Cure} III
PLD> Hey Nest Beetle, your momma's so fat... {Provoke}
Me> Anyone done any cool missions?
BLM> From the depths of the sea come the waves!!! {Waterga}

You get the idea...

[FatCharlie]

Re: About Elitists

In low PTs it's difficult to socialize between the macro spam.

SMN> Terrestrial Avatar who commandeth the Rainbow cometh forth!! {Carbuncle}
BLM> From the powers of Thor I SMITE THEE!!! {Thundaga}
Me> So guys, what's up?
SAM> I bring forth the ancient arts!! {Meditate}
SMN> Thank you for serving me Carbuncle. I {Release} you!
SAM> TP = 68% <call2>
BLM> From the depths of the sea come the waves!!! {Waterga}
SMN> Cometh forth from the rocky crag master of Earth! {Titan}
PLD> Hey Nest Beetle, your momma's so fat... {Provoke}
WHM> I have a big bandaid for you!! {Cure} III
SAM> TP = 89% <call2>
SMN> Thank you for serving me Titan. I {Release} you!
Me> So...
WHM> I have a big bandaid for you!! {Cure} III
PLD> He Nest Beetle, Look at my titties!!! {Flash}
SAM> TP = 104% <call2>
BLM> From the powers of Thor I SMITE THEE!!! {Thundaga}
SAM> Lashing out with the ancient arts!! {Ready to start skillchain}
WHM> I have a big bandaid for you!! {Cure} III
PLD> Hey Nest Beetle, your momma's so fat... {Provoke}
Me> Anyone done any cool missions?
BLM> From the depths of the sea come the waves!!! {Waterga}

You get the idea...

LMAO!!

Even high level PTies are guilty of this sometimes.

[Mhurron]

Re: About Elitists

SMN> Terrestrial Avatar who commandeth the Rainbow cometh forth!! {Carbuncle}
BLM> From the powers of Thor I SMITE THEE!!! {Thundaga}
Me> So guys, what's up?
SAM> I bring forth the ancient arts!! {Meditate}
SMN> Thank you for serving me Carbuncle. I {Release} you!
SAM> TP = 68% <call2>
BLM> From the depths of the sea come the waves!!! {Waterga}
SMN> Cometh forth from the rocky crag master of Earth! {Titan}
PLD> Hey Nest Beetle, your momma's so fat... {Provoke}
WHM> I have a big bandaid for you!! {Cure} III
SAM> TP = 89% <call2>
SMN> Thank you for serving me Titan. I {Release} you!
Me> So...
WHM> I have a big bandaid for you!! {Cure} III
PLD> He Nest Beetle, Look at my titties!!! {Flash}
SAM> TP = 104% <call2>
BLM> From the powers of Thor I SMITE THEE!!! {Thundaga}
SAM> Lashing out with the ancient arts!! {Ready to start skillchain}
WHM> I have a big bandaid for you!! {Cure} III
PLD> Hey Nest Beetle, your momma's so fat... {Provoke}
Me> Anyone done any cool missions?
BLM> From the depths of the sea come the waves!!! {Waterga}

Mhurron>If you don't shut that damn spam up I'm leaving.

And then suddenly I'm the bad guy. Go figure.

The problem is it never gets better, hopefully the stupid macros die a horrible death but it's not replaced with socializing. You have to face it, most people you party with don't want to be social, they don't want to make friends out side their LS or little circle.

I'm still happy that the party that got me from 74-75 was one of the most fun parties I've had with a great group of people. That was nice for my last party for the foreseeable future. Funny that I finally got another LS on my last day of playing.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: About Elitists

...party leaders unwilling to answer a few simple questions about party set up annoys me a great deal. The frequent accusation that I'm a jerk for asking (well, it's usually like "I thought you were going to be a jerk about it when you started asking questions.") is equally frustrating.

I ask about the party set up and camp site because I want to know what support job to sub, what food to bring, and what macro adjustments to make. A minute of the leader's time to help me understand what I'm getting into is of great help. There's no need to call me names for it, honestly.

Perhaps the issue is over when you start asking questions about pt setup, and not over the fact that you ask them at all. If you ask questions about the pt setup before you accept the invite, it's reasonable for the pt leader to conclude that you're basing your decision on the answers to those questions.

If you instead replied with an affirmative, and then asked about the pt setup, the pt leader might respond a bit differently. If they are still combative and accusatory, you could still retract your acceptance, and it would be based on something other than the pt setup itself. "I said yes, but I changed my mind. I want to pt with civil people who can communicate without a major bad attitude."

[Mhurron]

Re: About Elitists

Perhaps the issue is over when you start asking questions about pt setup, and not over the fact that you ask them at all. If you ask questions about the pt setup before you accept the invite, it's reasonable for the pt leader to conclude that you're basing your decision on the answers to those questions.

Once again, exactly what is wrong with that? If the party setup is retarded, to high or too low for the area they're in and what not, I want to know that before I accept.