About Elitists

[tazirai]

Re: About Elitists

3. playing FFXI is like Llama Song. It can be fun, it can be repeatitive, and after a while it will drive you crazy.

I like Penguins.. and I agree with all said here.

[Sabaron]

Re: About Elitists

Elitism is a way for someone who is not necessarily good at their job to justify their inclusion in a party based on what they've got rather than on their skill. I try to stay top-notch on both, but there are certain things that I cannot at this point justify expending money on:

1. Spider torque costs 400k, I have one... Enfeebling Torque costs 1.5mil and only gives me two more points of skill.. I don't plan on having one for a long time. Why? +2 skill points does not justify the additional 1.1mil in expenses.

2. HQ Staves. I'm not a Summoner, yet. Ok... 32nd level, but I've only gained levels above 30 via ENM and I don't plan on levelling it until I have Fenrir, Diabolos, Evoker's Ring, and Carbuncles Mitts. HQ staves are only a marginal help to my spells. HQ Dark staff does not provide any additional +hMP... There's really no point in paying 1.5mil for a staff when I can get the NQ which is nearly as good (unless you're a SMN) for around 50k in most cases and 150k on the must-have staves.

Basically, I consider most "Elitists" to be wasteful. I say most because some people have worked very hard for their uber-gear and deserve to be "Elite". I find most of the time these people realize just how much work is put in to getting such gear and don't expect you to have it because you'll probably need at least 1 75th level class to get some of the rarest pieces. Access to Sky and HNM drops seems to be a launchpad for most high-rollers. "Elitists" think they are 1337 because they have a single piece of gear (e.g. Hauby) that makes them "better'n you" even if said piece of gear gimps them (often severely) in other ways.

I've seen no less than 3 "1337" Ninjas sporting Hauby. Guess how many tools they throw? 1... Shihei... Guess how many Shuriken they throw... none... They don't even have any. They rely on me to handle their debuffs, on Hauby to help hold hate, and on the WHM to keep their shadows up because the -20 Evasion is wiping them faster than they can replace.

Don't get me wrong... Hauby is a very nice piece of gear for a DD Ninja, but I don't really think that a Tanking Ninja should be wearing it. Byrnie is nice... It gives a bonus to Vitality which reduces damage, and doesn't have any hideous Evasion penalty. It provides attack capabilities as well, but it only costs half as much... Therefore it's not 1337. Byrnie has it's drawbacks in the form of stat downs, but these pale in comparison to -20 Evasion. In my opinion, if you're going for DD NIN, that's how you should market yourself--just like SMN/BLM. Don't sub WAR, sub something that gives you power--Black Mage gives NIN's Elemental Jutsus a very crisp pop. Hauby is for melee DD's. A Ninja's shining glory in DD is not a crappy katana... Their DPS rates suck and the damage is quite lackluster when you compare it with the damage of the fast-melee master, the Thief. The power as I see it is in Shuriken and 1.5 second full wheel Elemental Jutsus. Hauby helps neither of those.

Would some really good NIN please explain the NIN Hauby thing to me, I'm not a NIN, but it doesn't look good on paper from where I'm sitting. What it looks like to me is an attempt to compensate for ill-developed hate holding abilities by upping damage output.

One of the problems with the Elitists is that they don't care about the mid-levels... They only care about "getting 75"--they have blinders on and just don't do anything besides XP. Doing XP doesn't really help you play the game well. Most of XP as I find it is simple, formulaic, repetition--like a packing job in a fork factory:

1. Take sheet of forks from line.
2. Remove forks.
3. Put forks in box.
4. Repeat at 1.

That's it. It doesn't give them the ability to think and act coherently when an unusual situation arises such as a mission or difficult quest. They're always the ones you find begging for "help" with every little thing. Don't get me wrong, I like to go in party to do things, but there's necessity and then there's incompetence. They don't do things themselves because they're hard--they cannot accomplish the task because they don't know their job well enough to know what they need. They'll look for a full party when they only need a group of 4. They seek alliances when such things are to their detriment (NOTE: Alliances are not stealthy).

[Auron517]

Re: About Elitists

I definately agree with number one...nothing annoys me more when I mildly disagree or differ in opinion with someone in a group setting and the first thing they respond with is "lololz! i hav foure jbs at 75! how meny do u hav? none!? omgstfu n00b!11"

Honestly, you can have Maat's Cap and still be a retard.

[Sabaron]

Re: About Elitists

The Elitist Multiple 75's have often lost their "Will to Learn". They're so good at one thing that they assume they will be good at everything and are not willing to listen to others even if those others are more experienced in their new class than they are. You can't help them because giving advice makes them feel "slighted"--"How can a Level 30 N00b tell me, the 75th level full-meritted WHM, how to play Paladin? I rule! You suck!"

[tazirai]

Re: About Elitists

About the Summoner and the HQ staff thing.. I got a set of HQ staves from a friend that Quit.. And promptly sold them without a secodn thought, I seriously could care less abotu saving that one mp, especially when I carry ether and hi-ether tanks for space. I bring supplies for juice and all that good rot.

So I have my way of playing and others have theirs. I just watch ^^

[Emurei]

Re: About Elitists

Some of those are the ones who are the most elitest.

We have a level 75 SAM on my server with fully upgraded relic GK... and an underlevelled WAR sub.

........ /kill self

[Jei]

Re: About Elitists

About HQ gears. As you play, you can really get to the point where you don't know what else to do with your gil anymore. That was exactly my case last year. I slowly switch from my NQ gears to HQ 1 piece at a time as I have extra gil. Not that they're something to brag about tho...

[Emurei]

Re: About Elitists

About HQ gears. As you play, you can really get to the point where you don't know what else to do with your gil anymore. That was exactly my case last year. I slowly switch from my NQ gears to HQ 1 piece at a time as I have extra gil. Not that they're something to brag about tho...

Well, Sometimes its good to get the HQ early, "IF" there is no replacing it. Like for me, I'm and extremely glad I spent an extra month farming the gil for my HQ Hauby 2 years ago.... when it was only 3 Mil and the normal one is 1.5 Mil. Haven't check the price of the HQ in a while, but 6 months ago it cost 15 Mil on my server O_o but for the most part NQ is good enough till you got the extra cash to upgrade it, than go for it ^^

[Davitron3000]

Re: About Elitists

I've seen no less than 3 "1337" Ninjas sporting Hauby. Guess how many tools they throw? 1... Shihei... Guess how many Shuriken they throw... none... They don't even have any. They rely on me to handle their debuffs, on Hauby to help hold hate, and on the WHM to keep their shadows up because the -20 Evasion is wiping them faster than they can replace.
Don't get me wrong... Hauby is a very nice piece of gear for a DD Ninja, but I don't really think that a Tanking Ninja should be wearing it. Byrnie is nice... It gives a bonus to Vitality which reduces damage, and doesn't have any hideous Evasion penalty. It provides attack capabilities as well, but it only costs half as much... Therefore it's not 1337. Byrnie has it's drawbacks in the form of stat downs, but these pale in comparison to -20 Evasion. In my opinion, if you're going for DD NIN, that's how you should market yourself--just like SMN/BLM. Don't sub WAR, sub something that gives you power--Black Mage gives NIN's Elemental Jutsus a very crisp pop. Hauby is for melee DD's. A Ninja's shining glory in DD is not a crappy katana... Their DPS rates suck and the damage is quite lackluster when you compare it with the damage of the fast-melee master, the Thief. The power as I see it is in Shuriken and 1.5 second full wheel Elemental Jutsus. Hauby helps neither of those.
Would some really good NIN please explain the NIN Hauby thing to me, I'm not a NIN, but it doesn't look good on paper from where I'm sitting. What it looks like to me is an attempt to compensate for ill-developed hate holding abilities by upping damage output.

I am not a really good NIN, but maybe I can help. Disclaimer: This is how I view and try to play Ninja, I do not try to pass any of it off as "the rule".

First of all this statement - "A Ninja's shining glory in DD is not a crappy katana... Their DPS rates suck and the damage is quite lackluster when you compare it with the damage of the fast-melee master, the Thief." - is just silly. Katana can be very good DD weapons. People wear Hauby because it is one of the better DD body armor pieces that they can wear.

A ninja does not have the JA or Curing of a Paladin to hold hate so they have to compete with damage. About the level you can wear a Hauby your elemental Ni spells start doing crap damage, and you can do more damage swinging your katana in the time you are casting spells. Of course the Haub is situational. Right now I use Scorpion Harness and WS macro in Hauby and IT+ mobs. If I can get some parties to fight VTs I will wear the Hauby fulltime. The VT mobs die so fast you don't really have to worry about the -20 evasion.

As for Byrnie vs. Haub, I would say people opt for the +Acc on the Haub. Mulit hit WS (Jin) and wanting to do damage over time means you want to hit as many times as possible.

As for /war, I haven't tried others, but Double Attack, Beserk, Warcry and Provoke are nice. (Defender for the "oh crap, how many shadows do I have left?" situations)

I would say that telling people to use Shuriken as more ellitist than someone using a Haub. It would end up being way more expensive in my opinion. Manji going for 100k a stack on my server and those are just the level 48 ones.

Regarding 'elitist', they don't really bother me so much. People complain when people are 'elitist' and try to tell them what to do, the same people complain when they are in a party with someone who is 'bad' and they won't listen b/c they are a newb... (see where I am going with this?) I just try to have fun.

[Celeal]

Re: About Elitists

Elitism is a way for someone who is not necessarily good at their job to justify their inclusion in a party based on what they've got rather than on their skill. I try to stay top-notch on both, but there are certain things that I cannot at this point justify expending money on:

1. Spider torque costs 400k, I have one... Enfeebling Torque costs 1.5mil and only gives me two more points of skill.. I don't plan on having one for a long time. Why? +2 skill points does not justify the additional 1.1mil in expenses.

2. HQ Staves. I'm not a Summoner, yet. Ok... 32nd level, but I've only gained levels above 30 via ENM and I don't plan on levelling it until I have Fenrir, Diabolos, Evoker's Ring, and Carbuncles Mitts. HQ staves are only a marginal help to my spells. HQ Dark staff does not provide any additional +hMP... There's really no point in paying 1.5mil for a staff when I can get the NQ which is nearly as good (unless you're a SMN) for around 50k in most cases and 150k on the must-have staves.

Basically, I consider most "Elitists" to be wasteful. I say most because some people have worked very hard for their uber-gear and deserve to be "Elite". I find most of the time these people realize just how much work is put in to getting such gear and don't expect you to have it because you'll probably need at least 1 75th level class to get some of the rarest pieces. Access to Sky and HNM drops seems to be a launchpad for most high-rollers. "Elitists" think they are 1337 because they have a single piece of gear (e.g. Hauby) that makes them "better'n you" even if said piece of gear gimps them (often severely) in other ways.

I've seen no less than 3 "1337" Ninjas sporting Hauby. Guess how many tools they throw? 1... Shihei... Guess how many Shuriken they throw... none... They don't even have any. They rely on me to handle their debuffs, on Hauby to help hold hate, and on the WHM to keep their shadows up because the -20 Evasion is wiping them faster than they can replace.

Don't get me wrong... Hauby is a very nice piece of gear for a DD Ninja, but I don't really think that a Tanking Ninja should be wearing it. Byrnie is nice... It gives a bonus to Vitality which reduces damage, and doesn't have any hideous Evasion penalty. It provides attack capabilities as well, but it only costs half as much... Therefore it's not 1337. Byrnie has it's drawbacks in the form of stat downs, but these pale in comparison to -20 Evasion. In my opinion, if you're going for DD NIN, that's how you should market yourself--just like SMN/BLM. Don't sub WAR, sub something that gives you power--Black Mage gives NIN's Elemental Jutsus a very crisp pop. Hauby is for melee DD's. A Ninja's shining glory in DD is not a crappy katana... Their DPS rates suck and the damage is quite lackluster when you compare it with the damage of the fast-melee master, the Thief. The power as I see it is in Shuriken and 1.5 second full wheel Elemental Jutsus. Hauby helps neither of those.

Would some really good NIN please explain the NIN Hauby thing to me, I'm not a NIN, but it doesn't look good on paper from where I'm sitting. What it looks like to me is an attempt to compensate for ill-developed hate holding abilities by upping damage output.

One of the problems with the Elitists is that they don't care about the mid-levels... They only care about "getting 75"--they have blinders on and just don't do anything besides XP. Doing XP doesn't really help you play the game well. Most of XP as I find it is simple, formulaic, repetition--like a packing job in a fork factory:

1. Take sheet of forks from line.
2. Remove forks.
3. Put forks in box.
4. Repeat at 1.

That's it. It doesn't give them the ability to think and act coherently when an unusual situation arises such as a mission or difficult quest. They're always the ones you find begging for "help" with every little thing. Don't get me wrong, I like to go in party to do things, but there's necessity and then there's incompetence. They don't do things themselves because they're hard--they cannot accomplish the task because they don't know their job well enough to know what they need. They'll look for a full party when they only need a group of 4. They seek alliances when such things are to their detriment (NOTE: Alliances are not stealthy).

There are more than one way of blink tank, let me try to explain as the best I can.

For NIN tanking with Hauby, it works well with the combination of Haste + Hojo: Ni (Slow II).

With Haste cut down the /recast timer of shadows, and Hojo: Ni slows down the attack speed of the mob, the Hauby NIN can keep his shadows up until the next Utesumi: Ni timer ready. If not Utesumi: Ni timer is not ready, use Utesumi: Ichi to bridge the gap.

The problem for NIN tanking with evasion is that evasion is random, hard to predict. Haste is consistant, and Hojo: Ni (or Slow) is also consistant, make timing more predictable:

Without Haste:
1. For every 45 seconds, NIN can re-apply 4 shadows from Utesumi: Ni.
2. For every 30 seconds, NIN can re-apply 3 shadows from Utesumi: Ichi.
3. The mob average speed of attack is X attacks over time. The value of X depends mob's attack delay, double/multiple attacks, special moves, AoE, etc.
4. Utesumi: Ni overwrites Utesumi: Ichi. Utesumi: Ichi has no effect when shadows from Utesumi: Ni is still active.

Basically, if you can get to a point which the rate of mob's attack is slow enough, and Utesumi timer is short enough, NIN's evasion can be considered as a bonus. Haste and Hojo: Ni (or slow) is the priority of this blink tanking tactic.

For Hauby NIN tank, the true power comes at level 65 with the 4th Dual Weird upgrade:
DWI = 10% delay reduction.
DWII = 15%
DWIII = 25%
DWIV = 30%

With DWIV plus Haste, and burning VT mobs, is the basis for NIN tank that uses Hauby. Byrnie works too in a similar way (boost DPS in different way compare to Hauby). NIN AF body or Arhat's Gi also work as well: Arhat's Gi for Enmity+, NIN AF body for Enhance DW (Speed).

[Raydeus]

Re: About Elitists

Hmm, the most expensive pieve of gear I have is probably an Emp. Pin and I don't use that often, everything else in my gear is pretty cheap and I spend way too little time farming and crafting for gil.

Yet, I've never ever been criticised by my cheap gear, even by many guys that have a reputation of being elitist jerks, and many times I get repeated invites from those same players so I doubt they say I'm gimp (gearwise) behind my back.


The only comments I have recieved is how I'm able to do what I do with such cheap gear, that I get a lot.


On the other side of the story I've been called an elitist and a jerk because I've tried to tell people to buy different sets of gear for RDM. When that happens I don't even mention expensive stuff (unless a Justice Badge and lvl 14 MND and INT rings can be labelled as expensive).

Many players use the elitist crap as a defense because they don't want to accept how gimp their playstyle is, and it has nothing to do with expensive gear but with how they play the job.

Oh and if you dare to mention equip macros is like you are trying to teach them how to split the atom using a pocket knife and a piece of chewing gum.

I dunno, maybe I am an elitist after all, not a gear elitist but a playing skill one. I really don't care about what gear players have, but I sure care about what they do with the gear they do have.

[Karinya]

Re: About Elitists

Am I seeing things, or is that guy equipping virtue stones with his relic weapon? That's almost funnier than the subjob... and proves the OP's point very well. It's possible to defend the position that SAM/WAR is useless after 60 (I disagree, but some people seem to think so), and therefore there's no reason to bother leveling it, but there's no excuse for inappropriate use of virtue stones. Anyone who's gotten far enough in the game to be able to obtain them should know what they're useful for and what they're not.

It's also funny that Ninurta's Sash looks exactly like the ones from the buffalo event; I didn't know that. Although really, I don't see where all the drama is coming from. If you can get one, clearly your LS ninjas don't *need* it; you defeated the strongest monster in the game without it, didn't you? At that point nobody in your LS really needs new gear, at least until SE comes up with something even tougher. (The Wyrmking Descends, maybe, if your AV strat involved a lot of zerging or changing jobs for Wild Card.) Furthermore, it isn't even EX, so if a ninja *does* need it for a particular fight (because of reduced attendance or whatever), there's no guarantee he won't loan it to them anyway. So there's no reason not to let anyone who will benefit from it outside of LS events have a shot at it provided they agree to loan it to other LS members when necessary. Of course if he told everyone else in the LS not to lot, and then doesn't loan it out to LS ninjas even if they *do* need it, then he's just being a selfish prick, unless he soloed AV and everything leading up to it.

[hongman]

Re: About Elitists

I think I am in the middle. The gear I have (as everyone on this board has probably seen) is not uber, but its isnt gimped either. And I want to keep that way until I know Im going to be staying at a steady level for a while (ie 75 lol). I cant see the point of farming for ages buying a piece of gear that can be replaced by a better piece in the few days it takes me to lvl a few.

But I have always been paranoid about being gimped in gear. I happily truged along in underlvled stuff until I met my current main LS and the leader was like, here, lemme buy you some new gear you will do so much better. I didnt even know I was gimped!! Then, I thought, gosh, what must people have thought about me?!

[Eiyoko]

Re: About Elitists

When it comes to gear, you really don't need the expensive stuff to make your way. Honestly. I've never had the uber gear for any of my jobs (well, maybe a piece or two for my 66DRG and my 68SMN, but that's about it) but I've always preformed well.

Yes, I know you like your fancy gear. There's no problem with that. The thing is, what some people don't realize is that not everyone has the money to buy the expensive stuff.

The things that I don't have - the things that I do have
Scorpion Harness - Feral Jerkin (given to me as a gift by my friend)
Sniper's Rings - Fluorite Rings
Vermillion Cloak - Austere Robe/Evoker's Doublet + Electrum Hairpin(I know, update {Can I have it?})
Astral Rings - Electrum Rings
Diabolos - Other avatars that do well, too
Telling others what to do - Giving others humble advice only to be basicly told to f*** off?

Aside from elitists at any rate, there are also the mercenaries - likely the same crowd. You know, they're the folks who'll help a random person with a quest...if they get a reward. What ever happened to just helping others out???

There was once a little Taru that wanted to unlock BLU since he recently attained level 30-ish. After a bit of fun with besieged, I went and helped him unlock BLU, then met him back in town to teach him the basics. Then, he asked me that awful question people seem to love asking me.

"What level are you?"

I hesitated, and reluctantly told him "I'm only a 66SMN..." (my SMN was 66 at the time.) And what was his reply?

"Whoa, cool! You're not 75 though?"

I told him that SMN and DRG were my highest job levels, and then he told me:

"You should be 75, you know alot." Then he said, "Not many 75s are as nice as you." It made my day.

Think about that for a moment. You hit level 75, then what? What came before level 75? What came before your advanced jobs? What came before having a subjob? What came before everything else? You were only a level 1 basic job, killing level 1 monsters outside of town. Just because you went from there to 75 and brought a few other jobs up with you doesn't mean you're suddenly above all else.

I agree, when people hit level 75 they tend to not learn anymore. I'm not going to be that way if and when I ever do hit that mark. There's no point.

Another thing I don't stand for are the lol<job> stereotypes. Though it's true some people are not good at their jobs whatsoever, hell maybe even alot of them, that doesn't mean the entire job is bad. Someone once told me that Dragoons weren't good, claiming he had a 60DRG (mine was 65 at the time I met him). Though for some odd reason when we got started he never went on about it... ^.~

No job in the game sucks. People are just too lazy to figure out how it works well. Here's a little hint for you. Learn to use what you're given. I had to with Dragoon, and I did just fine. Hell, as my summoner people tend to think I'm actually a WHM because I apparently main heal about as well as one does. I don't see what's so hard about keeping status effects off either, just utilize your filters and...okay, back on topic.

There's more ways to deal damage than big huge 3- to 4-digit numbers. There's a better way to beat the crap outta a mob than to spam your TP. There are other avatar buffs that do well besides Fenrir and Diabolos.

And not all summoners have all the avatars all the time, for the record, so don't expect it. We're not all like that. I won't even get into that; I might make someone cry it's so bad.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: About Elitists

The mercenary types really annoy me. They misconstrue what they do for others as "helping." If helping involves payment, we call that a "job" and its something we do for multiple hours a day at varied days of the week. I get a check for that.

This is a game, if helping requires payment in order for you to derive satisfaction from assisting others, you're nothing more than a selfish jerk. Leave the mercenary life as part of the story, we're all slaves to Naja Salaheem anyway.