About Elitists

[Theyaden]

Re: About Elitists

Mhurron>If you don't shut that damn spam up I'm leaving.
And then suddenly I'm the bad guy. Go figure.

I suspect asking a little more nicely couldn't made the request go more smoothly. I'll grant the spam volume you quoted from that party was horrible. I don't use alot of comments in my macros since I'm usually using up the extra lines to swap rings and other gear. I have played around with /p added to macros and have no problem removing them on request or if I think it's in the way after a battle. Telling someone could you please remove the macro chat is more likely to have a warm reception than shut that damn spam up or else. I've found showing a little courtesy usually gets better results.

The problem is it never gets better, hopefully the stupid macros die a horrible death but it's not replaced with socializing. You have to face it, most people you party with don't want to be social, they don't want to make friends out side their LS or little circle.

I'm not sure if it's a specific level that people stop chating your referencing, but I find most parties I'm in are willing to chat while getting to the camp together killing easier mobs while waiting for a replacement to arrive and non hectic moments such as battle going smoothly, but chat is lessend if it's a tougher fight since mages are watching for status effects ninja's are trading off hate as their shadows go down. Blackmage trying to stay in the hateline and watching for stun oppurtunities exc. The chatting is there if you look for it just not as much as during the dunes.

Macro comments have their place, but in my opinion it's like sugar in coffie a light dose adds flavor while too much makes it sickening. When playing thief I had a /p macro to help out the blackmage with the manaburst. Just added it into the sata macro and used that one when closing the skillchain. As whitemage I don't attach it to healing macros since I've never found it vital to highlight the healing magic although if 2 healers are treading on each other I could see a case for it.

Once in awhile if it isn't attached to something constantly firing like boost or provoke the comments will make me laugh.

[Yeargdribble]

Re: About Elitists

Actually if I face a really annoying macro, I just make an annoying macro to counter it (especially at really low levels) because it's fun.

/p OMFG I'M GETTING PUMPED UP BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!
/ja "Boost" <me>
/wait 5
/p 10 MORE SECONDS AND I CAN DO IT AGAIN!!!
/wait 5
/p ONLY 5 MORE SECONDS!!! I'M GETTING EXCITED!!!!!

Rinse and repeat for good times.

What I don't get is when someone has something misspelled badly in a macro they spam every 30 seconds or so and they don't notice it.

Prvoekeing th Nest Beetle

Unless you are severely dyslexic, how can you handle seeing something like that go off twice a minute?

[Telera]

Re: About Elitists

It still irks me to no end that SE (yes, them, not the player base) decided in their great (lack of) forethought to make a job totally dependent on either being a higher level before playing it, or riding with friends. I'm aware that there are another one or two jobs aside from summoner that can be put in this category and what I'm going to stay stands for them all.

You start out as a newbie, you've got your heart set on one of these 'advanced-advance jobs'. You do your research, level up your subs, and go grab your shiny new advanced job. Your heart and soul is in this, its all you wanted. Oh, but wait, there's some guy telling you 'gtfo n00b and go level <insertwtfejobhere> to 70+ first'. I'm sorry. I don't believe that should be a prerequisite for any of them. I think if someone has the heart to apply themselves well to a job (not your people just floating by) then why in hell do they have to level a job they have no interest in *that* high just to play what they *do* want to do? The only thing that will accomplish is massive burn-out via total lack of interest and animosity towards the job, the game, and the player base 'forcing' them to take that course. I kind of doubt that was the intention of SE, but it ended up that way.

I'm aware that I'm probably about to get 'lollazynoob' flames for even thinking outside of the ubar-75 box. I really don't give a shit. I burned out on this game 4 months ago and only barely play it. A reason I'd have to cite would be the 'awmigawd, lvl rdm or whm to 75, then do your smn'. lolno. I cannot abide either job long enough to take it that high. Sorry. I'd level my dragoon that high first. And yes, I love dragoon, that is not a loldrg comment. The point, however, is that my heart would not have been in any of it and I would have quit long ago, likely in the lvl 40's when I hit my first major burnout.

I find it horribly unfair and ridiculous that 70% of the population can hop right into the job that they prefer, but the rest of us are expected to do something no one else has to, or would even do themselves. I do not ask anyone to do something I wouldn't be willing to do myself, and that sure as hell is not something I'd do.

Sure summoner has mini-fights now. But you've still got Fenrir and now Diabolos. To be honest, I'm almost hoping they just stop with adding summons, because it becomes nothing more than some massive sieve-fest to separate perfectly good, very skilled people who just aren't as far, from the rest. Yes, I find that asinine. I respect a party leader's right to make that call, but affixing some sort of label stating someone is 'lazy' for not wanting to take a boring-ass job to 70 just to do what they want (which is a months-long undertaking) strikes me as horribly pompous. (This should not, however, be misconstrued into some kind of 'don't level all the subs you'll need' comment.) I believe if someone is making the *effort* to go about obtaining said summons/abilities/money to raise the job or w/e the case may be for whatever job it is, then there is no reason for name calling. You can politely turn them down for your party, but that doesn't have to resort to 'lolgo lvl something to 70 first'.

As I said, I'm sure this is not going to be a popular statement. Let me also reinterate that I truly couldn't care less about said opinions of my statement. I've had numerous people tell me I play my jobs well and the opinion of those people is paramount. They would not, however, lie to me and tell me I was good if I wasn't, I've been corrected before. But in a manner that I could respect and learn from. Which is something sorely lacking from so many players these days.

[Murphie]

Re: About Elitists

Telera, them's the breaks. You have to accept that about SMN before you even start playing it if you want to really enjoy it. Complaining that it's not fair, or that it's a ridiculous system isn't going to change the fact that you still have to work to get all of your Summons before you can really unlock the job's full potential.

Some jobs just require more work than others to get started in. That's a fact. If you, and the people you exp with are happy with your current selection of Summons, then I don't see a big problem. But if you want things like Fenrir and Diablos, then you have to work for them. They won't just be handed to you.

[Vyuru]

Re: About Elitists

It does kinda suck to not be able to use your summons at the start. I think I would have liked it better if SE made it so you had access to all of the basic summons, but toned down a little, and the level 60+ fights were to unlock the full power of them, while keeping the new summons such as Fenrir and Diablos as optional quested summons.

But if you want things like Fenrir and Diablos, then you have to work for them. They won't just be handed to you.

I think it wouldn't be so frustrating if people were a bit more openminded with how to get those. I haven't looked for any topics on how to get Fenrir and Diablos, but last I heard Diablos was manaburn only while Fenrir was just starting to be considered ok to go in with a fairly standard party setup.

I guess I'm kinda lucky, I want to level smn someday, but I can go and do the avatar fights with my dragoon now, so I can just wait until I get all the avatars before I level smn.

That and one of my 3 favorite summons can't be used yet, once I can summon the Phoenix, I am so into summoner.

[Murphie]

Re: About Elitists

Yes, but that's a player problem, and not a game mechanics problem.

[Telera]

Re: About Elitists

I never said they should be handed to anyone. My problem isn't even with the summons, but the way people get about them. I am, currently, working quite diligently on obtaining those two. I am high enough to contribute decently to the obtaining of my Whispers, which I am 4/6 on, and am scheduled to start running my Promyvions with my Linkshell sometime in the next few weeks, if I'm on at the time, which is looking less likely. Of course 'ultimate' summons should be earned, that's a non-issue. Part of why I have refused to level further is my own pride won't let me do it until I have finished my summon list. And while it's going to be impossible to hold my own in the actual fight against Fenrir, I *am* taking an active role in obtaining the Whispers, and no one can hold your hand in a Promyvion. If it turns out I can't seem to gather a group that can defeat the puppy, I may look to finishing off my Dragoon. The only problem is that that job is useless in a Fenrir fight. He'd melt a dragoon's face of and that would be that. As Vyuru said, its the narrow accepted strategy, and the unforgiving nature of the fight, that narrows the choices of a future summoner. Even if they were willing to take a job to 75, none of them are particularly appealing, imo. Rdm/Drk are often used to stun in a conventional party, Brd for carols, probably a healer for inevitable deaths. Not clear on what DD you would need, or if it should be blms, but I know Dragoon isn't among them. I know little of the strategies for Diabolos, but if it is largely Manaburn, that adds Blm to the list.

The essential problem with the strategies, which is what led to the 'go lvl something you hate for a while then see if you still give a damn about the game' mentality, is that the prospective summoner *willing* to spend that much gil and effort is still very limited in the potential jobs they can take to 70 and be able to get Fenrir and Diabolos.

My real problem is how people go about treating others for the lack therof, since this thread is about elitists. For an example, someone invites a Summoner, but didn't think to ask if they had Fenrir and/or Diabolos before the player arrives. When they get there, they are missing one or the other. The party would really like to have access to either/both of these for their exp'ing. This is the point where over half of the community would go '*boot* LOLN00B'. Where if it were me as the leader, I'd simply say "Sorry about that, but we really do want/need Fenrir/Diabolos." And then I'd probably give them some gil for the trouble/teleport home or whatever. If it were *me* being booted from a party, I would take the latter statement with no ill will; it's the former statement, and the various snobby responses that could be related to it that I have the problem with. Which was, in truth, the point of my rather long-winded previous wall of text, though I admit it rambled from the topic quite a bit.

Though to be honest, Fen/Dia don't make or break a party, and if those buffs are the only think keeping the exp a truckin' your party has bigger problems than that summoner's list of spells. I'd start looking at the tanks and DD.

To be honest, this game lost alot of its magic for me months ago. I am slowly gathering things for the final two summons, but am beginning to question if I even want to continue. This, however, is not tied to the rest of this post. I'm not sure quite what happened, but the longer I'm away from the game the more I go "Why the hell did I play this?" when I'm on. Which is rather depressing because when I was new everything seemed so big and awesome. I miss Star Wars Galaxies... :/

[Murphie]

Re: About Elitists

The problems you're describing seem to be Idiot Asshole problems, not Elitist Problems though.

[Celeal]

Re: About Elitists

For exp. parties with SMN, Fenrir or Diabolos is not a requirement for the success.

For tanking job like PLD, just give him Refresh/Ballad/Evoker's Roll and Cures is enough for him to stand up on his own.

For NIN tank, the basic need is Haste/Erase (or other -na spell) and a few Cures. The rest depends on the NIN's skill: SATA, a few stun, or Blind/Slow/Paralyze can be very helpful.

A DD major concern is a tank (if present), their own damage migration, and their damage output. Dispel/Finale/Dark Shot the mob is important for a lot of Exp. mobs. Although most DD loves BRD's Song, Haste, Cor's Roll, and SMN's Buff, he should be able to perform his task without those buff. If the DD fails his job because of lacking those buffs, then we have a sh*t DD.

For nuker, Skillchain + MB is efficient. However, they can spike great damage on without external help anyway.

I really don't see the point for "Fenrir or Diabolos is the requirement for a SMN in exp. parties."

[Murphie]

Re: About Elitists

I have to say, I don't generally require that my Summoners have Fenrir and Diabolos for them to be invited. The buffs are handy, but situational, and it's only when you start to move beyond 65ish, that I start to wonder about SMN who haven't taken the time to get Fenrir at least. Diabolos is a completely different issue, however, as getting to that point in CoP, while not impossible, can be rough for someone on their first job.

That said, post 20, any SMN who doesn't have all of the basic avatars doesn't get an invite from me. That's just lazy.

[Kholdstare]

Re: About Elitists

Actually, I'm having similar concerns with needing to be incredibly far to progress in a job. My BLU is at 58 right now, and I some day hope to take it to 75. Here's the kicker, though. I've played for like... 4 years or so casually, and until BLU, my highest job was a early 50s BST.

Now, I'm of the (what I feel to be legitimate) concern that not having Sea will impede those last 3 or so levels. I mean, 72 and up you start getting spells like Disseverment, Actinic Burst, etc. However, I feel actually getting to this point will be one (or both)

1) "You can't come on CoP with us because you're not 75."
2) "You can't exp with us because you don't have all your rockin' sea spells!"

I mean, I'm sure I'll get that party eventually, but I'm sure a lot of people on jobs that require higher level jobs to progress are a touch bothered "You can't come on <Superkickassnewsummon> unless you're a blabbidibla <job>" or "You don't have <Newsummonthatwasreleasedadayago>? Get out, gimp!"

Because, let's face it. A person who actually cares about a stranger in this game is a rarity. Most folk wouldn't give you the time of day. The game rides on interpersonal interaction and team work, yet day by day people are trying to break away from that. Really, the Aht Urghan expansion has brought out the worst in a lot of people.

[DakAttack]

Re: About Elitists

Actually, I'm having similar concerns with needing to be incredibly far to progress in a job. My BLU is at 58 right now, and I some day hope to take it to 75. Here's the kicker, though. I've played for like... 4 years or so casually, and until BLU, my highest job was a early 50s BST.

Now, I'm of the (what I feel to be legitimate) concern that not having Sea will impede those last 3 or so levels. I mean, 72 and up you start getting spells like Disseverment, Actinic Burst, etc. However, I feel actually getting to this point will be one (or both)

1) "You can't come on CoP with us because you're not 75."
2) "You can't exp with us because you don't have all your rockin' sea spells!"

I mean, I'm sure I'll get that party eventually, but I'm sure a lot of people on jobs that require higher level jobs to progress are a touch bothered "You can't come on <Superkickassnewsummon> unless you're a blabbidibla <job>" or "You don't have <Newsummonthatwasreleasedadayago>? Get out, gimp!"

Because, let's face it. A person who actually cares about a stranger in this game is a rarity. Most folk wouldn't give you the time of day. The game rides on interpersonal interaction and team work, yet day by day people are trying to break away from that. Really, the Aht Urghan expansion has brought out the worst in a lot of people.

Complete the quests as you come to their level caps. You should have Sea by level 70 if you do.

[Kholdstare]

Re: About Elitists

Complete the quests as you come to their level caps. You should have Sea by level 70 if you do.

that's what I intend to do, my issue is more not getting groups for uncapped without having 75. I'm already at Snoll Czar in terms of progress. I still need a couple more levels before I'm capped for the 60 cap fights, though.

[Yeargdribble]

Re: About Elitists

Only idiots would require you to have them. I've had both Fenrir and Diabolos since my SMN was level 1 (I did Diabolos right after that maintenance with 2xWHM, BRD, 2xSMN, BLM fyi... so you can go a little less than full on manaburn). I honestly didn't use either hardly while leveling SMN to 41 (as a utility job to do Dobsonflies). Fenrir doen't get anything really decent until like 43 and Diabolos doesn't get anything decent until nearly 50. Even then, those Wards aren't that amazing.

If you make some good friends you could leech both of them easily. RDM/DRK+2xBLM (or the more the merrier) can take out Fenrir. There should be enough room in a zerg burn to let you leech Diabolos as well if that's an option for you.

[Caspian]

Re: About Elitists

that's what I intend to do, my issue is more not getting groups for uncapped without having 75. I'm already at Snoll Czar in terms of progress. I still need a couple more levels before I'm capped for the 60 cap fights, though.

You're really not too far off, then. Snoll, some random stuff, U/O which is 60, some more random stuff, and finally Tenzen. Have a friend who joined a Tenzen fight at 68 and got sea. Its possible, just have to find some people to help you with it. By that point you should have several friends in the upper levels who can help you.