Making the game appetizing for new players

[Legal Fish]

Re: Making the game appetizing for new players

No offense, but I find just as annoying as he is really. Provoking him isn't going to improve the situation, you should pretend he isn't there.

[little ninja]

Re: Making the game appetizing for new players

Actually most of your first post stated that some fo the gamers are morons an lazy. I may have rambled off. But atleast my post delt with a now evident problem. An that is there isnt much of a drive by the player base to lvl jobs anymore.

So what you mentioned 3 quests that give exp. How many can easily do the escort quests without getting killed?? do you get exp even if you fail at an ENM.. What makes it worse is if you die, you get to eat a lose of exp regardless if you have a RR on of get a R3. its still something. Balista is still majorly dependent on the fact that THERE HAS TO BE ONE. Besieged is great then again you have to actually contribute alot either in damage, or by healing, an must not die, or be dead when it ends..

"Why should new players get such quests when the original player never got them? Just because WoW did it from day one isn't a good reason."

So you dont have a memory of this game do you? Why should players now have the luxury of not being killed when someone zones a gob, a crawler. or crabs.. (MPK PATH) but thats what it did. What about when S.E changed the amount of exp it took to get from 50-75 (THEY REFIGURED THE FORMULA). Why put in the empress band, ( i had no band when i was exping along time ago)SO why should the young guys get to live without the constant deaths from everyone else like i used to. Why do they get an easier road to 75 when i had to actually fight more mobs to get to 75.

Like i stated in a ton of recent posts about this similar topic. If they dont figure out something to address the problems of slow exp early on, With the lack of players willing to exp early on. This game is not gonna have any younger players keeping it going, an eventually it will close servers an end up like EQ...

OF course whats to stop the FANBOI's from calling them all a bunch of moron sissies who should never play mmo's..

[Gentoo]

Re: Making the game appetizing for new players

And if the person playing FFXI - or any MMORPG for that matter - gives up in three days, that's not a flaw in the MMORPG, that just means MMORPGs aren't for you.
You can't hope to progress as quickly in an MMORPG as you can an offline game - they're just not built that way and you can't learn everything a handful of play sessions.

I disagree. While it might have been perfectly acceptable to you, I, or anyone else reading this thread to do the beginning grind, that doesn't mean it's a perfected mechanism. If someone gives up in three days because the game failed to keep the interest of a player, that very well could be that the design is too closed. It's short sighted to believe the game can't become mind numblingly boring for a perfectly normal and intelligent player.

I've played MMOs that give EXP for doing quests. I've never seen the point to it as many of these quests required no skill whatsoever

I've also played MMO's that reward xp/fame/whatever for quests. If the quest is trivial, and really requires no skill, it's a fault of the game designer not the generic mechanism.

Doing quests for XP might not require skill as you put it, but in the early levels, don't consider the grind to require much more skill -- obsession maybe, displacement more likely.

NMs, Besieged, and Ballista, as you point out, are all perfectly good methods of alternative XP that aren't readily available to early levels. Even if they are a reward for enduring the low level grind, as is your conceit, that just makes the low level grind something of an expiation.

Updating Graphics. Without needing to get rid of the engine or even too much effort. SE could, a optional patch for only PC and Xbox360, reskin everything older than CoP to have the new and prettier look that the latest expansions had. In addition, adding music to areas without would be of help. The latter could be bearable without however.

I never mentioned getting rid of the current graphics engine -- indeed I used the term fork. The current engine is a perfectly acceptable vehicle for PS2's and lower spec PC's, and it's continuation would be necessary -- although a refresh as you mentioned would be welcomed.

A second graphics engine, although a medium sized undertaking, would make the game attractive to anyone that has a high-end gaming PC, 360, or PS3. Ben Kuchera at ars-technica said in his review of the Wii:

The very fact that it maxes out at 480p hurts my soul. I'm so spoiled by high-definition consoles after my year with the 360 and the weekend with the PS3 that going back to SD just bothers me. I find that SD graphics now look muddy, and it's distracting.

Although that quote is coming from someone that had privileged access to Hi-Def gaming equipment for some time, I personally don't think that's going to be a minority opinion for much longer. Part of what's traditionally made MMOs so enticing is the promise of feeling totally immersed in a beautifully rendered world. Unfortunately, the graphics engine is old enough that it cannot take advantage of the current state of VDUs.

Newer games are going to take advantage of current technology. If FFXI wishes to compete for the attention of new MMO players, it'll have to compete with those games based on it's presentation of the environment.

What will take serious resources, is updating the textures for a new engine.

One last thing that needs to be fixed for NEW players is a smoother install process. There was a post not to long ago that talked about multi-day process it was to install the game because of updates (I breifly searched for it, but I couldn't find it). The current 2007 collection probably helps that along, but that's only good for a limited period. Really, I think SE needs to make an ISO image available for download via HTTP, FTP, and TORRENT that can be used for updating the client. As second source for the updates, from a decent set of mirrors, could reduce the time it takes to install and update the client by a fair amount.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Making the game appetizing for new players

I have personally never had a problem with in-game graphics. I play for fun. Of course, I've always been more about gameplay and less about graphics, but still ... to me it's not something that needs to be fixed. And personally I think if a new player is turned off by the graphics, which really aren't that bad, then there's something wrong with the player and not the game.

[little ninja]

Re: Making the game appetizing for new players

I have personally never had a problem with in-game graphics. I play for fun. Of course, I've always been more about gameplay and less about graphics, but still ... to me it's not something that needs to be fixed. And personally I think if a new player is turned off by the graphics, which really aren't that bad, then there's something wrong with the player and not the game.

Id have to agree there really isnt much wrong with the way the graphics are set up. I mean som eplaces still look very nice when i roam around them. Places like the Boyada tree, an Mamool just look so nice to me. Also the cutscenes still look very good. Im only curious if its more the console players who arent to into the graphics, because i knwo on the Pc, you can tweak it to really enhance the look an feel.

Another thing you have to remember is this game is old. i think it first came out in japan around 99. To overhaul the graphics or servers in 07 just isnt feesable.

[Jei]

Re: Making the game appetizing for new players

I disagree. While it might have been perfectly acceptable to you, I, or anyone else reading this thread to do the beginning grind, that doesn't mean it's a perfected mechanism. If someone gives up in three days because the game failed to keep the interest of a player, that very well could be that the design is too closed. It's short sighted to believe the game can't become mind numblingly boring for a perfectly normal and intelligent player.

I don't quite agree. FFXI is not the only 1 game out there in the market. And just like when people go shopping for food, everyone will just pick the one that best suite their personal taste.

There are tons of other MMO out there that can only keep my interest even less than 3 days. But those MMO also have thousands of players that are addicted to them. And no matter how those game change, I doubt I'll know about the change and go back to them anyway.

Same goes with FFXI. It's just another choice in the market. I can play it for many years so it is definitely the game for me. If others can only play for 3 days, too bad, pick other games.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Making the game appetizing for new players

I disagree. While it might have been perfectly acceptable to you, I, or anyone else reading this thread to do the beginning grind, that doesn't mean it's a perfected mechanism. If someone gives up in three days because the game failed to keep the interest of a player, that very well could be that the design is too closed. It's short sighted to believe the game can't become mind numblingly boring for a perfectly normal and intelligent player.

I never started anything about personal preference, but personal preferences don't mean a game design is bad, it just means its not for you. I've had this discussion with others before and to dismiss/quit a MMORPG before you have truely experienced the initial level of play and party dynamics voids any credibilitly your opinion or preferences may have been. Even moreso if you came into an older MMORPG expecting what a newer one does.

As for littleninja's latest reply: There is a major difference between adjusting the game to prevent MPK and adding quests that give EXP. Fact is, the way things spawned and aggroed had to change because RMT and BSTs used it to MPK. One bad apple spoils and all that.

We've already discussed things such as the Empress Band, Sanction and the change to the EXP curve - my point, along others that have posted here - is that SE has given out quite enough EXP bonuses/adjustments. Players are spoiled on them now.

If you're a newbie player and get your first 1k in Conquest points, you're already eligible for Empress Band. So before we even hit 50+ where the EXP adjustment took place and Sanction comes into playwe have a game that has changed very little, yet EXP bonuses are given daily - why should that change?

Really, its 50+ that has undergone the massive changes in EXP. I can't say whether I liked those changes or not, but we can't do anything about it now. It's done. And truth is, you don't have to use ToA zones to EXP, you don't have to use sanction. If you want the game to remain challenging in that aspect, ignore sanction, ignore empress band and fight IT +++.

There are a lot of milestones to cross to get to 30, just as there are to get to 50. If we're gonna give people EXP for general quests, we might as well given them chocobo and airship access from level 1, too.

This is just one of these "Let ask SE to make the game easier" threads. Truth is, its easy enough now. Yes, the population at lower levels is a bit more sparse, but if you fail to make social connections in this game, you fail at the game in general. Its a curse all MMORPGs live with - to progress, you must socialize. If you can't accept that, MMORPGs are not for you.

[little ninja]

Re: Making the game appetizing for new players

I never started anything about personal preference, but personal preferences don't mean a game design is bad, it just means its not for you. I've had this discussion with others before and to dismiss/quit a MMORPG before you have truely experienced the initial level of play and party dynamics voids any credibilitly your opinion or preferences may have been. Even moreso if you came into an older MMORPG expecting what a newer one does..

Actually it does mean a game design is bad. Isnt the whole point of a game especially an MMO. Is to get you to buy the game, an to sit there an subscribe to it for an extended period of time. An if they decide this game isnt for them after so sort of time, i give them alot of credit. You dont have to grind for months on end, or do worthless questrs for fame to realize a game sucks.

As for littleninja's latest reply: There is a major difference between adjusting the game to prevent MPK and adding quests that give EXP. Fact is, the way things spawned and aggroed had to change because RMT and BSTs used it to MPK. One bad apple spoils and all that.

Well actually if it wasnt a problem the first 5-6 years. Why did it become a problem only recently. It wasnt a rmt issue back in the day an it wasnt a bsts fault. Nice scape goat by the way, to bad its not the reason, Lets really point the blame where it needs to be pointed. S.E faliure to inforce its own rules. Infact they even added more rules, yet never followed them. Thats because if they did, they would have hurt there monthly revenue. My point was by changing the aggro patterns, an the mobs motion of moving back to its zone area. You infact have majorly overhauled its concept.

This is just one of these "Let ask SE to make the game easier" threads. Truth is, its easy enough now. Yes, the population at lower levels is a bit more sparse, but if you fail to make social connections in this game, you fail at the game in general. Its a curse all MMORPGs live with - to progress, you must socialize. If you can't accept that, MMORPGs are not for you.

Actually this game isnt about being social. Its about are you the person we need to fill a slot. An are you lucky enough to hit the timing of certain people seeking, or looking for your job. I know when i lvled Nin. i rarley talked to anyone. Infact i turned down alot of friend invites. And alot of my pts were with random people, i rarely saw the same guys in the pt when i joined. Only proves that it wasnt my great social skills that helped me out, It was 1. the job most seeked, 2, the job the pts were looking for, 3. i hit the perfect time to party.
Hard to be social when nobody is around to be social with, Hard to be social to get help for cap quests when nobody is around to be social with. ANd its hard to make a social bond, when your an unwanted job
may have been.

Jei your refrence to food was funny. Is it safe to say that to a new player FFXI is like a very old pie thats still managed to find its way to the shelf. An to not go ahead an buy it with the ideas that it will be as great like the last pie your had???

[dirtyclown]

Re: Making the game appetizing for new players

I have to agree with Ninja on the social aspect of the game. It's all about being the right job, not making friends and being part of a community like the old TV advertisements used to say. I think I've met like 5 people who I can actually call friend the entire time I've played, and I've been here since NA release. Certain people might claim that it's because I'm a troll, but they don't know me, so they can go blow themselves. ;D

[Legal Fish]

Re: Making the game appetizing for new players

Oi, you two need to shut up already. Its annoying and thread-killing.

PS. Making friends is easy, no matter what job you have. I just made a Assault Static with a PLD, and he would probably have had a time otherwise.

[DakAttack]

Re: Making the game appetizing for new players

The game doesn't begin with a lot of direction for new players, that's usually gained through discussion with other players while partying. I think a unique introduction scene for every starting job with an appropriate NPC might do well in conjuction with the current introduction scene. It might offer them some information they woudn't recieve until they started conversing with fellow players.

I suppose when they turn in their adventurer's coupon they will then be pointed in the direction of their job-specific NPC that will offer the second scene.

[Kholdstare]

Re: Making the game appetizing for new players

Okay, I'm gonna call for a semi-radical change here. Bear with me.

All medicines and drinks should stack. I think that, if you could use potions or juices or au laits without taking up your entire inventory (or leveling a craft to whatever and bring a stack of ingredients) that it'd make parties less dependent on healers and possibly tanks (though not likely).

Really, if there was a way to make playing healers and tanks more attractive (for me, it seems like everyone who plans on leveling a tank or healer up to or past 37 has done so already, usually for subbing purposes or endgame purposes.) or diminish party dependence on them (adding more tanks/healers or giving parties the flexibility to not need a tank/healer/support/DD/DD/DD party would do this.) would make the early levels much more tolerable.

[cakemeat]

Re: Making the game appetizing for new players

I actually played, well TRIED to play "eleven" like 4 years go. A few months after US launch. And I completely didnt get it. Besides the adventurer coupon. nothing else is spelled out for you. I was ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS. I did a few quests. I think i eventually got rank 2. But i really didnt know what to do. I think i only got to level 15 or so. Few years later i had much more success though.



Anyways. I would love if the quest/mission system had more information. I truly couldnt imagine beating most of them without internet Guides/FAQs. Its just bad.


One NPC says, "oh no, my soup is cold"... and your supposed to find another NPC who has a stove. But the guy with the stove says "My sister is missing".

Then it shows up in your quest log.. And We have no DAMN clue what to do next. Its fricking amazing that anyone ever completed any of these.

[Mhurron]

Re: Making the game appetizing for new players

Anyways. I would love if the quest/mission system had more information. I truly couldnt imagine beating most of them without internet Guides/FAQs. Its just bad.

That is how it is supposed to be, you are supposed to work with others to do things. You are supposed to interact with your fellow players. You aren't supposed to do these things alone.

[cakemeat]

Re: Making the game appetizing for new players

That is how it is supposed to be, you are supposed to work with others to do things. You are supposed to interact with your fellow players. You aren't supposed to do these things alone.

I understand that, And I Agree with the MMO aspect of this game. But eventually you need to do certain mission/quests. And the in-game speech/descriptions are just too vague. Thats what bugs me.