What jobs would you like to see added to FFXI in the next expansion?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What jobs would you like to see added to FFXI in the next expansion?

plus thats a huge cop off of SWG's Entertainer way back before the NGE or as i like to call it Sony Online fucking SWG gamers in the ass

Final Fantasy V and Final Fantasy Tactics both pre-date SWG.

Your point?

Dancer - out of most of the jobs left - has the most potential to be a unique job that functions differently from the jobs that have already been introduced. There haven't been any jobs I know of the dealt in enfeebling an enemies MP bar (aspir is just draining the MP, not damaging it consistantly) and that concept could be extended to TP as well.

My concept would be much in-line with what Dancer was in FFT, but with a twist. They are already established as the complete opposite of a Bard - they deal in AoE enfeebles and there are a number of old ones not yet introduced to FFXI that could be used. But what if we also mixed in a little of SAM's concepts? The Hasso and Seigan are near-constant states SAM can exist in. What if dancers also had such states?

Imagine a job class that can not only enfeeble, but change their melee damage from HP damage to MP damage to TP damage. We have abilities that can TP down a mob, but no class that really excels at it. Dancer would be an odd job, but it would make mobs people typically don't want to face a bit more viable.

[Legal Fish]

Re: What jobs would you like to see added to FFXI in the next expansion?

What is this shit? DnD created almost everything(based on stories and legends), don't start on what MMORPG made what. What is truly innovative if Puppetmaster. I've never seen anything like it.

[Lmnop]

Re: What jobs would you like to see added to FFXI in the next expansion?

These are fun to make up.

see? this is why we have threads like this :D

Even though I still hate the idea of having more than 18 jobs in the game...

I still think GEO's best. Poet Fish's concept is a lot of D&D druid with the whole not-wearing-metal-armor thing. On that alone, S-E would prolly do their best to make them wear as much metal as possible. Also, I kinda like the idea of the rugged Mountain man... even though that's already Beastmaster. But then, BLU took RDM's feel, Corsair bandwagons on THFs, PUP's on BRD's image. On further thought about Bells, I think they would be better as inventory items. Though I think it'd be easy enough to just be able to craft them as elemental bells to begin with, making 6 (or 8) recipes instead of 1. Just like the elemental cards of COR. That, and the concept of "free assuming right weather conditions." Though, if that were the case then you'd need to make sure the moves had recasts or low enough power levels to make the bell thing not overpower them. Ahhh so hard to do.

I also really like the idea of "mixing" the elements to gain a specified result. But who knows, that may have been a working concept that they had for GEO and then decided to shunt into PUP. Just like one of my concepts for Mime would be to be able to slot yourself as one class or another, and be below the specialist classes when slotted that way, but having the ability to change things around just enough to give you a different package to offer. But that concept is identical to what a PUP gets. Thus, I feel PUP may also have been partly a working Mime concept fused into the PUP design.

[Neomage]

Re: What jobs would you like to see added to FFXI in the next expansion?

The name Berzerker to me sounds purely offencive. No defencive abilities.

[Jei]

Re: What jobs would you like to see added to FFXI in the next expansion?

In norse mythology, when berserkers transform into beast form, they are invincible and no weapon nor fire can pierce through their skin. But since they are fierce attackers too, most RPG games then give them crappy defense instead. I guess that's how everyone think of berserkers as defenseless kamikaze unit.

[Neomage]

Re: What jobs would you like to see added to FFXI in the next expansion?

Yeah, but in those RPG games they haven't transformed into beasts yet have they?

[Legal Fish]

Re: What jobs would you like to see added to FFXI in the next expansion?

WAR has only one defensive ability and its rather out of place.

Even though I still hate the idea of having more than 18 jobs in the game...

I hadn't the idea of having more than 15 jobs in the game... and look how PUP, BLU, and COR don't even have Relic sets.

My imagination of Geo would work like BRD(or COR), making how many times they can recast a buff not too important.

[Icemage]

Re: What jobs would you like to see added to FFXI in the next expansion?

WAR has only one defensive ability and its rather out of place.

Provoke: Level 5
Defense Up: Level 10
Defender: Level 25
Shield skill: C+
Evasion: C
Parry: C-

Out of place? How so? Warrior is a quite capable tank in a large stretch of levels, and even performs reasonably well in a tanking role at end-game when circumstances permit. And before you point it out, no, Provoke isn't strictly defensive, but if you're going to incite a monster to attack you, then it's probably a good idea to shore up your defenses in anticipation - which makes defensive abilities entirely appropriate for Warriors.

---

As for adding a new Berserker job... please, please please no more melee DD jobs. We have quite enough of those to go around as it is.


Icemage

[Ziero]

Re: What jobs would you like to see added to FFXI in the next expansion?

Are you implying BLMs have a hard time getting merits? That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. The way you describe usefulness and balance make them one and the same. You say balance as how many times a job is useful... which is a way to measure its, gasp, usefulness. It's not that PUP isn't useful, it can easily do anything a WAR can and somethings a WAR can not, it simply can not do it as well. A lot of people want the best these days, and this causes people to distort their definitions of useless and useful. Just because a PUP is unable to deal more damage than a WAR doesn't mean it can not deal damage. And there are situations where a PUP is better than a WAR, but those situations don't come up as often as the "deal damage" situation. And I don't believe you've partied with a PUP passed 40. Name me one and I'll go ask him.

Balanced = Not over powered, Useful = not underpowered. Not hard to understand. And a lot of *Blm* complain about TP burns not wanting them and thus suffering when it comes to obtaining merits as TP burns gain EXP faster on average then manaburns. I wasn't aware this concept was news to anyone. Also seeing as the ONLY thing a Pup can do effectively(can't heal others, buff the pt or tank) is DD, then being worse then the 'worst' DDs is a problem. Their pet does all the work, unlike the other pet jobs who can do something effective WHILE having the pet do what they do, while the pup can only give suggestions towards what elemental skill should be used and swinging away if a sub par main weapon skill. Smns, Whm and Blm have a better melee weapon rating then Pup, when three 'weak' mages have a better main combat rating then a job who's purpose is to melee that shows me there is a problem. And to be perfectly blunt, I can't think of any situation where a Pup would shine over other jobs.

Props to LegalFish, for being thus far the only one to explain and convince me why Geomancer would make a relevant addition to the job roster.

Other people have given decent write ups of Geo that explain how the job could work much better then just giving it a recycled and limited spell list.

Warrior should have been named "Berserker". Aside from their mastery of almost all the weapons in the game and Defender, there is nothing non-Berserker about them. Axes, sacrificing defensive ability for offensive ability, Warcry... ect.

Warrior is a mix of Berserker, Fighter and 'Gladiator'(their AF is based on roman armor), which is why it's such a 'basic melee'. Over time SE gave it more offensive abilities (aggressor and warcry were added after the game was already running) and other jobs started to become more efficiant as a tank. It's good with all forms of melee and physical combat but best with attacking. I'm still waiting for the Berserker JSE set for War, but that prolly won't come until the northlands expansion or something. But yes, I do feel that Warrior fills the roll Berserker always used to fill.

And classically speaking, Berserkers were norse warriors known for working themselves into a savage frenzy before battle, often ripping of any armor or clothing they had one and entering into combat often times completely naked. It was this lack of regard for self preservation that gives them their 'all offense, no defense' persona. And their weapon of choice was more often then not the Bearded Axe, a massive two handed battle axe that they would swing wildly around themselves non stop. Seeing as axes are very weak at providing a balanced defense in combat, as the build of the average axe throws most people off balance when swung, the constant motion would cause any attacker to hesitate in their approach preventing attack entirely. The constant offensive action, lack of defensive clothing and armor and choice of a purely offensive weapon are why most games, stories and tales about berserkers show them as purely offensive fighters.

As for how many jobs there can be, people said there would be no more then 15 because that's how many jobs you need to beat Maat with to get his cap. But then look what happened. There will be more then 18 jobs, and I'm sure there will be more then 20. As I said before, job changing is one of the main features in this game and the more jobs there are to lvl the longer people will play. And with more variety in jobs more people may even start a new just to try them out. As far as I can see, there are some classic FF jobs which would be easier to add then others that would be balanced, unique and useful. Those jobs are Geomancer, Chemist, Time Mage, Mystic Knight, Morpher and Dancer. I also feel Mime, utilizing a Blu like 'set ability' system and Calculator as a numerical based AoE buffer/DD could be added, but they would both need a very unique way of using their skills and traits to capture the classic feeling of both jobs.

[Karinya]

Re: What jobs would you like to see added to FFXI in the next expansion?

And a lot of *Blm* complain about TP burns not wanting them and thus suffering when it comes to obtaining merits as TP burns gain EXP faster on average then manaburns. I wasn't aware this concept was news to anyone.

No, but the jobs that aren't wanted in TP burns *or* manaburns tend to laugh at the blms when they come around looking for sympathy. Because conventional parties gain much slower exp than either - if you can find one at all; they still need the same rdms and brds that could make 2x the exp in a burn party.

Meanwhile blms can not only manaburn, but also solo T and even some VT with only moderate risk.


As for PUP, I don't really know what SE had in mind when they created them, to be honest. They don't have quite enough control of the automaton to get it to fill the most crucial party roles (tanking, healing, pulling, crowd control, buffing/debuffing) so they kind of fall into DD by default, but as you point out, they're not so great at that either. Without at least B in some respectable weapon, the PUP's damage is going to practically vanish at the upper levels and the automaton by itself is hardly going to be able to compete with players using equipment and food. Didn't they learn already what happens to a job that is mediocre at everything?

[Lmnop]

Re: What jobs would you like to see added to FFXI in the next expansion?

as I said before (maybe 2 or 3 times this thread, I'm kinda a broken record and forget), 18 is the number of slots there are in an alliance.

My idea of a balanced FFXI = a full alliance, one of every job, being entirely useful and perhaps the "ideal" that every HNMLS tries to build at events.

So then, once you add job 19, it'd get that much more complicated (it's already an incredibly delicate process, of course) as you would have to test it's ability to replace every single one of the 18 other jobs.

I agree that Warrior = Berserker. It was a good move on FF's part to combine some jobs, and in this case it was old school Warrior + old school Berserker. My brother would like to see Berserker added (to which I exclaim "NO!"). His idea is rather to capitalize on the myth of "the invincible warrior" making the Berserker a tank class. High HP, moderately high VIT, and abilities that forsake one thing in exchange for others. I forget most of his stuff, since I fundamentally disagreed with taking Warrior's image. But basics were that he would get high DR or other goodies based on stances he would cycle through that required him to have the mob's attention in order to further his damage output. Offense + defense only when you have hate. However, this amounts mostly to a tanking Monk -- very doable; high hate, high damage, high HP, but still an MP sink.

I've met blm who can never solo over 3k/hour and I've met blm who solo a merit in an hour assuming no competition. I'd say that's pretty good but I'd rather they had a place in parties. Certainly I'm not the only person that would like to see the return of traditional parties, am I? Once I realized that everyone would bitch and moan if my party wasn't a burn party, I've stopped building parties. The fun of creating a balanced party with a powerful SC/MB is gone. I can't stand for mindlessness any longer.

One concept I had once (and never thought seriously about) was the idea of an "aura tank." A job that used party buffs to perform a tank-like function. One that would capitalize on the high hate-output of group buffs (I thought about this idea wayyyyy before I found out how insane Mazurka is, btw) as well as make it less costly to lose hate. If they hold hate as well as NIN, then THF would be wanted to provide that extra hate oomf. Indeed, some of the AoE buffs could be used to make non- shadow using trick buddies more attractive. It could have some buffs that affect themselves as well as others, and some that only affect party members (like "Increases enmity loss from being hit"). Not a great idea, but I really want a new tank job, and one that does it in a unique way.

[Ziero]

Re: What jobs would you like to see added to FFXI in the next expansion?

Just a quick note about my Blm comments. I personnally have no problem with pting with a Blm, in fact in the right set up I think they're great. But many Blm *themselves* have complained about not being able to keep up with TP burn style parties, which most melees and even support jobs can join without much hassle. I feel however that this situation highlights Blm's balancing feature, the fact it can't keep up a high, consistant, constant damage. They need to either pace themselves and conserve MP or flat out rest when they run low. Blms are a very powerful DD class who's only real limitation is their dependence on their MP. They're also the only job who's main function is to cause dmg using nothing but magic. Hence it is a unique(no other job like it), balanced(it has a limiting feature to keep t from being too strong) and useful(despite it's limits it still preforms its main function excellently) job class.

[Acera]

Re: What jobs would you like to see added to FFXI in the next expansion?

Um, forgive me if this offends but.. ive just started playing and my objective view is that, all the skills in the game need re-animating to look half decent... what final fantasy online should have been was a mix of how it is now, with cabal online (if youve ever played it) after that it wouldnt need more jobs, ever.

btw, blade dancer, fast, dual swords, maybe itd be too much like the mnk, but... hell i love having two swords on a game so who cares?

[Sabaron]

Re: What jobs would you like to see added to FFXI in the next expansion?

btw, blade dancer, fast, dual swords, maybe itd be too much like the mnk, but... hell i love having two swords on a game so who cares?

Complete Book of Elves? o_O


With respect to BLM... well... This thread really doesn't have anything do do with BLM (or PUP)... major sidetrack...

I think this thread has gotten about all of the useful information collected in it's 10 pages of information. It is now so large, that the casual user will never actually read it and much that has been written will be lost forever... Doomed to be reposted indefinitely until time ends.... Please put up something new and or interesting RE: new jobs instead of arguing over existing jobs and who stole what from who...

Please... the thread is virtually dead. Let it live out it's last, few, brief moments in peace. It's a good thread when you can find the information buried inside it. ^^

I'm not a moderator, but, were I, I might be sorely tempted to close this beast...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What jobs would you like to see added to FFXI in the next expansion?

What is this shit? DnD created almost everything(based on stories and legends), don't start on what MMORPG made what. What is truly innovative if Puppetmaster. I've never seen anything like it.

Name one RPG - video game or pen-and-paper - that did Gambler as it was represented in FFVI before FFVI.

I can't think of one.

And before we get into more nonsense, DnD was based on Tolkien's work. You might be able to pull knights, clerics, wizards, berzerkers and rangers out of it. But Dragoon as its portrayed in FF? Gambler as its portrayed in FF? Red Mage? Blue Mage?

Dancer has been in other RPGs, in Fire Emblem, its not even an offensive or even a true support class. The dancer just inspires a unit to act again on the same turn.

But really, this asinine mentality of "it was in another RPG, so it shouldn't be added" has to go. WoW has Paladins, they're actually more of a support class there. Just because one game has the same thing in name doesn't make it the same thing.

Well, except Rangers, maybe. They don't differ much. And they always get nerfed at some point.