I heard that there was a way that you could type in Japanese without a windower or something like that by editing your keyboard in a certain way. Is there any truth to that? Or do you have to get some special program to type in Japanese with an English version of the game?
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Re: Typing in Japanese
I don't think so. The IME panel doesn't even show up in the normal NA version chatting. It doesn't even mark my text green (it's what IME does)
And yes we can enable it with some special program. Which is.... um... the windower @_@;;There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence
transform a yellow spot into the sun.
- Pablo Picasso
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Re: Typing in Japanese
I don't get why normal FFXI doesn't let you use IME I mean... japanese FFXI lets you talk in english >.>Originally posted by EllipsesReally, it's just like pretty much every question about this game that begins with "Why." The answer is "Because."Originally posted by MCLVA subjob is like sex, you shouldn't have it untill your 18 but if you don't have it after 21 everyone laughs at you.More Sig:
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Re: Typing in Japanese
There was a conversation about it in a similar thread some time ago. Apparently it has to do with license for the IME or some such business. More money than SE wanted to spend.'
Someone else will likely explain it much better than I.
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Re: Typing in Japanese
Originally posted by Murphie View PostThere was a conversation about it in a similar thread some time ago. Apparently it has to do with license for the IME or some such business. More money than SE wanted to spend.'
Someone else will likely explain it much better than I.
It really is a license and buissness choice, they save money not licensing it for more then 1 client. The IME is still in the EU and NA versions but they have disabled it to avoid pay for the extra licensing fees for those clients (IME license are based on the number of clients the IME is used on not a cover it all license since they sell their application to third-party e.g. us players)
And since third-party (us) doesn't have the license to use IME on NA and EU clients disabling it would technically be to break the law and using software without a license.
Technically you could of course buy a license yourself but how would you prove that to a GM when the software isn't licensed to be used with the NA or EU versions of the game.Keep in mind, sig might be outdated I just update it a few times per week.
Signature with the usual levels and obtained stuff etc. . .814 Total levels and counting.. . . . .
BST75 - PLD74 - WAR69 - BRD60 - RNG50 - THF45 - MNK45 - SAM45 - DRK42 - DRG42 - BLM41 - WHM38 - NIN37 - RDM37 -BLU36 - COR34 - SMN24 - PUP20
AF Completion
PLD, WAR, BST, BRD, RNG(4/5)
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Re: Typing in Japanese
D:
So the JP version also need to pay IME per client?There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence
transform a yellow spot into the sun.
- Pablo Picasso
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Re: Typing in Japanese
Originally posted by Jei View PostD:
So the JP version also need to pay IME per client?
So a JP client is licensed while a NA or EU one isn't (they just plain locked the IME functions to avoid paying the licenese fees for these clients I am assuming).
EDIT:
Basically the JP clients costs more for S-E, since for each copy they have to pay the license fee (every client that leaves production costs them money the moment it leaves production since it is licensed to use JP IME).Keep in mind, sig might be outdated I just update it a few times per week.
Signature with the usual levels and obtained stuff etc. . .814 Total levels and counting.. . . . .
BST75 - PLD74 - WAR69 - BRD60 - RNG50 - THF45 - MNK45 - SAM45 - DRK42 - DRG42 - BLM41 - WHM38 - NIN37 - RDM37 -BLU36 - COR34 - SMN24 - PUP20
AF Completion
PLD, WAR, BST, BRD, RNG(4/5)
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Re: Typing in Japanese
Has anyone ever confirmed that s-e is indeed paying license fees for IME?
As far as JP PC version is concerned, it's coded to utilize whatever the IME the user has installed as default, and it lets you use it. When people refer to "IME" here, they're mostly talking about the MS-IME, the one that comes w/ Windows. However, there are many other IME's that we can choose to install over MS-IME, such as ATOK of JUSTSYSTEMS. Of course, most of them cost us license fees, but when ffxi just uses whatever the IME installed on our PC's, who in the world do they pay license fees to?
Though I don't know the case of Xbox 360, PS2 version uses the aforementioned ATOK as IME, not becuase s-e chose it, but because it's the standard IME of PS2's BB Navigator; yes, it's also utilizing the IME that comes w/ another software, not ffxi itself.
Charging software developers the license fees everytime they are coded to utilize, not inclusive, IME is nonsense. They already charge us for IME, and yet charge software developers for them too, when they don't know which IME will be used? I don't think so.
Nobody would pay Microsoft a license fee when they sell a PC without OS. Whoever buys it could be installing Linux or whatever non-Windows OS out there. It costs lincese only when it comes w/ OS pre-installed.Last edited by bside; 11-22-2006, 03:11 AM.
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Re: Typing in Japanese
Originally posted by bside View PostCharging software developers the license fees everytime they are coded to utilize, not inclusive, IME is nonsense. They already charge us for IME, and yet charge software developers for them too, when they don't know which IME will be used? I don't think so.
Nobody would pay Microsoft a license fee when they sell a PC without OS. Whoever buys it could be installing Linux or whatever non-Windows OS out there. It costs lincese only when it comes w/ OS pre-installed.
And for some reason the IME which is used in all clients of FFXI CAN handle Japanese, but this is disabled in all clients but the localized Japanese version (or rather JP POL/FFXI client).
Now this might be sloppy programming on S-E part since all they could have done would to use the IME settings directly from your OS but the FFXI client for some reason use its own IME in their PC clients (and I assume the XBOX 360 version as well but not sure). This, lets call it "special", Japanese IME is what they have to license in their clients if activated.
This is probably a horrible relic from when they ported the PS2 version to PC.
Now if you ask me why they have chosen to do it this way, I have no idea.
There are a lot of other things in the PC version of FFXI that makes no sense whatsoever from a programming perspective which makes the game very very clunky to the boot . . . .Keep in mind, sig might be outdated I just update it a few times per week.
Signature with the usual levels and obtained stuff etc. . .814 Total levels and counting.. . . . .
BST75 - PLD74 - WAR69 - BRD60 - RNG50 - THF45 - MNK45 - SAM45 - DRK42 - DRG42 - BLM41 - WHM38 - NIN37 - RDM37 -BLU36 - COR34 - SMN24 - PUP20
AF Completion
PLD, WAR, BST, BRD, RNG(4/5)
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Re: Typing in Japanese
When the user is using IME in Windows OS, typically IME display several windows (or user interface), as shown in the following:
Because FFXI is a full-screen DirectX application, which the developer usually set the application window as WS_EX_TOPMOST style (topmost window), for changing screen resolution or preventing other windows to shown on top of FFXI's application window, etc, it prevents IME user interface window (shown in above image) to display on top of FFXI's full-screen windows. That may explain why IME works with FFXI Windower, not the original FFXI application.
Since IME by default is using Window's GDI, and GDI is slow compare to DirectX, it makes sense for S-E override the default IME behavoir anyway. The normal approach is to convert the font (Japanese or English, etc) into texture (images), and draws the text as images over Direct3D screen. In other words, S-E developer may need to provide a custom interface while using the language conversion capabilities of IME.
P.S.
IME, which comes with Windows OS like other Windows SDK API or components, does not require license fee for software developer to use in their applications.Server: Quetzalcoatl
Race: Hume Rank 7
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Re: Typing in Japanese
Originally posted by Celeal View PostIME, which comes with Windows OS like other Windows SDK API or components, does not require license fee for software developer to use in their applications.
Using Windows support for Multibyte character sets was not an option since the OS most NA players used when the game was created did not have that support. On top of that, extra programming would have been required since accessing the IME on 95/98 in the North American Windows client is different then accessing the character set on the Japanese release of 95/98 and is different then accessing the IME on 2000/XP which as you pointed out uses GDI, something else that 95/98 did not have.
In short, at the time FFXI was created using the Windows IME was not practical for creating a cross-platform client.
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Re: Typing in Japanese
Does anyone have a list of all the codes you can use to input special characters (not necessarily just japanese characters), stuff like musical notes, and the such.
I know for example that Alt + 0187 = »
But was wondering how to get musical notes, and stuff like that.Elanria (Shiva Server) Bastok
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Re: Typing in Japanese
Originally posted by LiquidedustYes you are correct, but the JP Client of FFXI comes bundled with an activated IME that is used in-game which requires a license fee per client. So the analogy of paying a license fee for something not included is in this case moot, since it comes bundled with it either you want it or not.Originally posted by Mhurron View PostIt however was not shipped with windows 95/98 which were minimum system req when FFXI was created. Shipping with support for multiple languages was touted as a 'big' selling point with 2000/XP, even though they were not installed by default.
Using Windows support for Multibyte character sets was not an option since the OS most NA players used when the game was created did not have that support. On top of that, extra programming would have been required since accessing the IME on 95/98 in the North American Windows client is different then accessing the character set on the Japanese release of 95/98 and is different then accessing the IME on 2000/XP which as you pointed out uses GDI, something else that 95/98 did not have.
In short, at the time FFXI was created using the Windows IME was not practical for creating a cross-platform client.
Windows NT/2000/XP/Vista: Included in Windows NT 4.0 East Asian language localized versions. Included in Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 if East Asian language support files are installed. Included in all Windows Vista and later systems.
Windows 95/98/Me: Included in Windows 95 and later East Asian language localized versions.
Header: Declared in Imm.h; include Windows.h.
Library: Use Imm32.lib.
For Unicode, some functions may:
Unicode: Implemented as Unicode and ANSI versions on Windows NT/2000/XP and later, and Windows 98/Me.
I am just trying to get the fact straight~
GDI is part of Windows since Win95 or later, WinNT 3.1 or later.
IME/IMM is part of since Window 95 in other language (like Japanese version of Win95, etc).
By default, Win95/98 default to ANSI. However, it can handle Multibyte/Unicode/DBCS character sets as well.
Mhurron is right about NA/English version of Win95/98 does not ship with East Asian language support.
I have doubt with Liquidedust's statement of JP Client of FFXI comes bundled with an activated IME that is used in-game which requires a license fee per client.
You can verify those information from official site in MSDN ( http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx )Server: Quetzalcoatl
Race: Hume Rank 7
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Re: Typing in Japanese
Originally posted by elanria View PostDoes anyone have a list of all the codes you can use to input special characters (not necessarily just japanese characters), stuff like musical notes, and the such.
I know for example that Alt + 0187 = »
But was wondering how to get musical notes, and stuff like that.
http://www.ascii.cl/
By the way, most japanese symbols, you can type kigou to bring up all the list. You can also type what the symbols are supposed to read and it may show up too.
For example, I type omega with IME, I get choices for these symbols
omega Ω ω
arufa α (alpha)
ramuda λ (lamda)
onpu ♪There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence
transform a yellow spot into the sun.
- Pablo Picasso
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