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How could a FF MMOPRG be different?

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  • How could a FF MMOPRG be different?

    This isn't so much about FFXI as it is about Final Fantasy games'(including ones like Final Fantasy Tactics) relation to FFXI. I originally thought about posting it in the videogame section, but I realized most of what I was saying was just a varient of FFXI.

    So in the 11 Final Fantasys and 2-4 spin offs outside FF, we had a lot of different combat, leveling, and class systems. The one FFXI picked seemed more of something right out of a traditional MMORPG, which probably has some roots in Final Fantasy/Dragon Warrior(and them, from Dungeon and Dragons) anyway.

    If you could increase the number of traits from previous(and proceeding) Final Fantasys, which traits would you want to be involved? Remember, this isn't editting the game we know, but decisions made before Day 1. Presonally, I would rather talk about changing FFXI, but if you had in mind an entirelly new game, go for it. Maybe even a previous FF world made into a MMORPG.

    As for me, I would keep FFXI mostly the same except the following.

    Removing 2hrs for the most part, maybe converting them into weaker traits or abilities. Also removing Merit Points.

    In the place the 2hrs and Merit points, players can align themselves with an avatar(why not call them Espers ;o). They would receive a new "2hr", which involves the player summoning that avatar and using it's "Astral Flow". In addition, from a certain level, early on, players can enhance themselves in a similar format to the Merit Points system. Instead of leveling, the player could choose to invest exp into limit points instead. The maximum amount of upgrades would be based on the highest level. Otherwise, it would work very much like Merit points, especially when the player switches his job. Other then that, each avatar might give a small stat bonus and elemental resistance(and weakness). Maybe a category of unique "merits" that would be unlocked at max level. Probably make it possible to switch the avatar the player is bonded to, however the merits would remain with that avatar and the player would need to switch back to get it.

    Now this would put Summoners in a position to either be changed or removed. To be changed the Summoner would probably be able to only summon the one Celestial Avatar they are bonded with, however be able to summon all the possible Terestial Avatars more freely. Maybe, for the sake of balance, make additional Terestial Avatars. The Summoner would also probably have to more focused on keeping the Avatar out, like many people want it now. On the other hand, they could make Spirits more interesting and power and take the up the void left by this.

    Even more groundshaking, I would probably include the removal of the concept of subjobs.

    To take their place would be Relics, right out of FF6. Two Relics per character, maybe one or two more at the maximum level. Relics would give you a single trait or improvement such as: stat increasement, skill increasement, job trait bonus, other job traits(including Dual Wield and Spells), and completely unique abilities altogether. Doubling up would increase the power of it. This gives players a wide range of customization. Do they want to greatly increase their strength stats? Or be able to cast Cure, Protect, and Shell? Would they like to have Dual Wield? Or would they like to increase the potency of their previous choice of White Magic? Increasing movement speed might be most important of all to them. Relics could be changed on the go or maybe be restricted to the Mog House.

    NMs and HNMs drops would be more focused on Relics and crafting materials than equipment drops. Players are more likely to receive a rare kind of leather that could make Leaping Boots than just the boots themselves. In addition, making most, if not all, equipment "Bind upon equip", which for those who do not understand what that means, is tradeable and sellable, but becomes "ex" once it is equiped. Most equipment in the game would have to be crafted, with exceptions(Relic Weapon and Relic Equipment, among others). This may seem mostly unrelated to the FF series, but I think it's completely neccessary for crafting if Relics were to be added.

    Finally for balance's sake:

    Add more job abilities/traits for each job. The lack of subjobs will make jobs that are more depended on their job become weaker than those that are not (like DRK vs WAR).

    Take much longer before reaching the final cap of the game. If the original cap is 50, then slowly increase it so that, it's 55 or 60 at the start of Zilart. 60 or 70 at the start of Promathia. 70 or 75(final cap) at the start of Aht Urhgan. With each upgrade, add equipment that scales well for the level. That means no Attack+20 kotes at level 32 and no Gavial set at level 75(for those who don't understand what I mean, the former is too good for it's level and the latter sucks a lot for it's level). Plan ahead and set armor bonus limits for each level cap. It will become obvious that there is something called "Progression" in this manner. Once the final cap is in place, the groundwork for continued armor progression is already in place. Oh, and maybe lay off the Haste and Dual Wield Delay- gear a bit.

    Your post doesn't have to be as "well-thought out" as mine. Just have fun with the idea.
    Last edited by Legal Fish; 11-18-2006, 06:04 PM.
    Read my blog.
    ffxibrp.livejournal.com
    Currently: Entry #32, August 31/07.
    Entry 32: Death to Castro

  • #2
    Re: How could a FF MMOPRG be different?

    First, I'd like to say :O

    I like your concept... it's very similar to Junctioning. Which reminds me, FF8 straight up would make a passible MMOG >.> I mean you have 3 military academies training young mercenaries (except they have a prestigious status unlike the reputation mercs have in most settings) on 3 different continents, you have sci-fi and magic... nevermind.

    Materia concept. I really liked FF7 but I'm not gonna get all fanboy about it, so this isn't actually retarded: Imagine a setting wherein most of players' power came from unique combinations of items built for synergy. Not only would characters have the normal equipment and the normal economy, people would be buying and selling their materia (or relics) with each other, each trying to find their perfect build. I haven't thought this out as thoroughly as your example, obviously.

    I think your Relic idea could do this if they weren't Bind on Pick up. Actually, I was just thinking... what if you had Relics with stats that were random values (a lot like Diablo items being randomly rolled), but with a point-value assigned to them. Such as... Tiamat always drops an orb that adds +STR and +INT, but the combined value of the stats never surpasses 20. Except that doesn't mesh well with what you were saying about relics and them being like FF6 (added traits instead of simple +stats), nor do +stats promote synergy like my previous example >.> So consider this a 3rd direction.

    I thought the Subjob system was interesting, but 3 years ago, I wasn't really impressed. And the skill system is wonderful at encompassing so much, but it's not exactly innovative, nor does it mesh well with subjobs (war/blm ftw).

    From a game balance standpoint, it's much easier to control the power levels of certain jobs if you purposely make certain jobs unmeshable (war/blm ftw), narrowing the potential of every job. War is still Warrior, even if he subs THF for SA. But if he could nuke effectively, it'd be hard to say the potential of war/blm and it could become an issue. Same with Bard + Greataxe.

    One thing's for sure... if S-E had it to do all over, there wouldn't be any multi-hit weapons (completely demolishing the potency and uniqueness of Double and Triple Attack). They prolly also would've made Ninja cap @DW2 or 3 instead of 5 + loads of equipment.

    If S-E really is working on another MMOG, I wouldn't mind one bit if it were FFXI-2. Vana'diel 1000 years later. Cyberpunk all the way!

    Did I mention that the whole reasoning behind the job/subjob system is very weak? My moogle has to give me my job? o0 "time for your Corsair Labotomy, Kupo!"
    "And if he left off dreaming about you, where do you suppose you'd be?"

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    • #3
      Re: How could a FF MMOPRG be different?

      Vana'diel 1000 years later
      No way, I'd say 20 years. We will get to see grown up and President Cornelia... and Prishe.
      Read my blog.
      ffxibrp.livejournal.com
      Currently: Entry #32, August 31/07.
      Entry 32: Death to Castro

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      • #4
        Re: How could a FF MMOPRG be different?

        I never liked FF8's Junction system.

        For mor customization, I think that characters should be allowed to level up their job abilities after meeting some special requirement.

        Oh wait.

        They already do that.

        Nevermind.
        "Vacation. Alienation. Japanamation. Manga. Kanga. Naked Lunch. Hawaiian punch!!"


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        • #5
          Re: How could a FF MMOPRG be different?

          I think Legal Fish and I are the only peeps that are so easily amused by "what if," but I'm going to revive this week-older anyway.

          I still really like LF's initial idea and I truely feel it would've been better than SJs. As I said before, SJ idea is weak and not really Square-innovative. Materia, Sphere Grid, Junctioning; it's nothing like any other game before them. Not that S-E's the only creative game makers, but they certainly have more background to live up to than other companies. A job system straight out of Dungeons and Dragons (you level up, you gain this ability as well as your improved all-around stats). And then they're like "we need a 2nd dimension" "how about another job?!?!"

          I want to play off of Legal Fish's idea for a second. I think 2 Relics wouldn't cut the amount of growth a character really achieves. This is why I think the Avatars themselves should have traits/abilities based on level. Thus, at level 15 Ifrit may give berserk. If this were the case, you'd have to go one of 2 directions. A) all Espers have powerful abilities for all types of jobs (Garuda would be great for Ninjas because of her Evasion bonus traits, but she also has a Self-Haste ability that makes her appealing to any other melee DD) or B) the Espers are essentially divided (Blms would always either sub Shiva for MAB traits/ Int boosts or Carbuncle for more defensive and healing capabilities).

          About mid-level meritting: this would be wonderful but it would also mean you could consider a player "gimp" for not having it. I don't mind this stigma. In fact, that's why in a game like this (we're obviously designing FFXI-2 for S-E. They're taking notes. They're my zombies), the search system should show your name and level, and you'd have to select that name to see all of their Espers and how much growth they have in all of them.

          Basically, I want a system wherein your chosen Esper is your subjob. Instead of leveling another job, you have to invest exp into your Espers to level them up. Of course, now I have a contradiction in myself. I want a system wherein you'd use the avatar for Merit-like "uniqueness" abilities, but I'd also want it to have an assigned level and a static growth so that other players know whether or not you've gained certain abilities. Perhaps both is the key. You can use "merits" to buy new abilities/traits, and the level of the Esper itself dictates the power of the ability/trait.

          I want industrial cities. I hate "Steam" eras. Where there's an equivalent to everything. There's magical devices for communication where there's no phone, there's awkward airboats because there aren't proper airplanes or jets, and there doesn't appear to be electricity so we have lamps all over jeuno. I want television and machine guns and magic is used as a balancing factor -- "My Esper gives me supernatural strength, allowing me to survive sword swings and gun shots and to kill DRAGONS."
          "And if he left off dreaming about you, where do you suppose you'd be?"

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          • #6
            Re: How could a FF MMOPRG be different?

            I personally think I'd prefer a Tactics/Tactics Advance style approach to the game. Perhaps races that have already been introduced in past games? (Humans, Moogles, etc.) of course, the "certain races with certain jobs" thing would have to be done away with for balance's sake, and other jobs are similar enough where they can be combined (they've already done this in FFXI, but there are still things that have been untapped)

            In this same vein, I think more damage JAs would be somewhat nice. I mean, yeah, PLD and DRK get their Bashes, DRG get their jumps, and MNK gets Chi Blast, but, in reality, there's not much else, and these moves have some pretty long cooldown timers. I'd have liked to see some JAs that act in a similar manner to WS, but are restricted by time, not accuracy. Something like how THF is able to do a nice spike hit once a minute, but different. Something like, I dunno, a 1 minute WAR move that's a guaranteed hit, but hits for only 3/4 of what you normally would. Great for when you get caught in a whiffing cycle.

            Also, pets in this (be they wyvern, Bst pet, automaton, or otherwise) are a little too uninhibited. I mean, just as an example, telling a BST pet to sic usually doesn't go well. They AOE when you're surrounded by sleeping mobs, they buff themselves when they're about to die, and they use their direct single-target attacks once in a blue moon. Something more in line with Summoner, or hell, setting up an attack plan, would be nice.
            Something like "when I do this, you do that, when this gets done to me, do this" would even work. Something to give pet-users a little more control.

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