Classes - Specific jobs?

[Bamshu]

Hello, I recently started playing FFXI. Less than a week ago in fact. I chose a tarutaru as my race, and red mage as my job.

Now, what I want to know is that is having the right job for the right race quite important? Can my tarutaru never be a class such as warrior or monk?

If that's the case, then I'm quite dissappointed.

[Jei]

Re: Classes - Specific jobs?

Not at all. Tarutaru monks are adorable.

[Bamshu]

Re: Classes - Specific jobs?

That's all very well and good, (Oh, and I don't even mind having worse stats than someone of a more suitable race for the job) but am I going to be turned away at the later levels when trying to party just because of my race/job combination?

Damn racists...

[Taskmage]

Re: Classes - Specific jobs?

If someone turns you away from a party because of your race/job combination nowadays, they're probably not a very experienced player. It hardly ever happens. Well ... I'll take that back. I'll still only pick a galka white mage for a party if there are no alternatives. But even a galka can play white mage perfectly competently if they equip themselves wisely, eat the right food, and ration their mp well. Player skill is more important than everything else. As a taru, you may deal slightly less damage as a monk or samurai than other races, but not so much less that you won't be any good in a party or people will avoid you.

[greydaze]

Re: Classes - Specific jobs?

As a taru, you will have to think more carefully about what foods you eat and what equips you wear than some of the other races. Taru are basically the best spellcasters in the game, with a huge MP pool and high INT. Does this mean they can't play PLD, NIN, THF or MNK? Of course not! Just keep in mind that you have lower STR and HP pool than a Galka.

I have played Hume my entire FFXI career. I have 75 BLM, 65 RNG, 50 BRD, 37 NIN, 37 RDM... And I will tell you, I see Mithra who have an advantage as RNG, and Taru that have an advantage as BLM. But as you level, you will notice one big thing:

Skill > Gear > Race

A bad MNK is a bad MNK, whether he's galkan or taru. I PTd with a tarutaru BLM who would use tier 3 -aga spells (around 1000 damage) every fight, several times. We kicked him after his third death. I didn't get the boot because I knew how to play my job.

As long as you learn about your job, have appropriate gear, and keep in mind your racial limitations (low HP, low STR), you will be a fine melee!

[Kitalrez]

Re: Classes - Specific jobs?

Taru has a distinct advantage v. the melee dependant races at a number of jobs. For instance, your higher AGI means you will be slightly more accurate if you chose to go RNG. We also used to have a saying after the NA PC release back in 2003: "An Elvaan DRK can knock down the big numbers on Guillotines, but a Taru DRK can actually hit often enough to do that Guillotine more than once a battle." Knowing how to play your job effectively, and taking gear/subjobs to play to those strengths is often way more important than being Galkan or Elvaan.

The major strength of taru melees is also your major weakness: You don't hit very hard. The idea here is to play on this by maximizing your accuracy, so you hit more often. Since you aren't going to post big numbers like an Elvaan or Galka, you also aren't creating nearly the aggro footprint for Burst damage that these two races have. This means that the mob is less likely to turn towards you in battle and start laying the smack down. Since your tank usually has way better DEF than your average DD job, this is a good thing. It saves the healer's mp since they only have to worry about one person and that person doesn't get hit very hard. Most really bad DDs shoot just for the big damage, trying to end the battle ASAP. It's not a bad strategy, but when hate is bouncing everywhere, healer mp is dropping like a rock, and your efficiency is essentially nil.

Taru tanking is a little weirder. If your a taru NIN, you typically don't worry about too much more than the typical NIN. With the possible exception of large damage single shot moves, like Death Scissors from Scorpions or Screwdriver from Pugils. These can 1 shot you at lower levels, although they can also 1 shot alot of other NINs as well. If you're Taru PLD, however, you need to get comfortable using MP to keep hate. You have a ton of it, and it's better used curing yourself or others to stick hate firmly on yourself. This means you'll be resting more than other races, but you'll also have an easier time later on keeping the mob focussed on you when your DD can whip out a Rampage or Sidewinder on a moment's notice.

[Lmnop]

Re: Classes - Specific jobs?

Elvaan Mnk uses Raging Fists, Randommob takes 251 points of damage.
Tarutaru Mnk uses Raging Fists, Same Randommob takes 242 points of damage.
...Yea, that's about what it amounts to. And you could chalk that down to luck if you wanted.

Galka make the best WHMs, as long as the player is mature. They know their mp limitations and know how to get around it. Once you hit 30+, not inviting a Galka mage is as bad as demanding melee-burn parties only...

[Agnastar]

Re: Classes - Specific jobs?

I once had alot of fun as an Elvaan White Mage.
The key is to have your Racial Specific Equipment, in the late 20's and early 30's. The equipment boosts the stats that your race naturally lacks. The Taru Taru RSE adds stats that boost melee and tanking performance.
Other than the RSE, I had below-average gear, AND I was an Elvaan. But because I'm such a pimp healer, and have alot of experience from past MMORPGs, I was able to perform my job admirably.

[Taskmage]

Re: Classes - Specific jobs?

I see your point about the limited mp being a good environment to learn mp-efficiency. I've had too many whms of other races who don't know what Regen is or think Cure IV spam is a good idea. In fact to be honest I don't think I've ever partied with a galka mage that left me with a bad impression. It's just an old prejudice from when people thought race mattered more than it does, and the fact that if a galka mage has the same habits as some of the whms I've run into from other races, they could potentially be much, much worse.

Tarutaru RSE adds hp, str, vit, and mnd—mostly the first two. Unfortunately it isn't really very good for tanking because of its low defense, so the body imo is mostly useless. The legs are decent for red and white mages because of the mnd boost. The feet are very good for just about any melee job with their +2 str. The hands give +3 str but aren't as widely useful since battle gloves will be better for the jobs that can wear them. I suppose you could macro them in for WS.

[Icemage]

Re: Classes - Specific jobs?

Galka make the best WHMs, as long as the player is mature. They know their mp limitations and know how to get around it. Once you hit 30+, not inviting a Galka mage is as bad as demanding melee-burn parties only...

I'm not sure I agree with this.

Galka mages as a whole are smarter and more efficient than other races because they have to be if they want to be functional. However, a well-played Tarutaru BLM is still going to slightly outperform a similarly skilled Galka BLM (and the differences are more pronounced for RDM and WHM).

It's true that the percentage of smart Taru (or other) mages is lower than for Galka mages, but that in no way implies that Galka make better mages (which is patently not true).

EDIT: It occurs to me that this response could be misconstrued as a statement that race makes a substantial difference. The truth is race matters not at all in most cases, and only marginally in the extreme cases of Galka mages (lack of max MP) and Tarutaru tanks (lack of max HP). Even in those extreme cases, the differences are not debilitating - you can get gear to make up most of the lost ground and still excel even when playing a job that isn't optimal for your race.


Icemage

[Omni]

Re: Classes - Specific jobs?

Taru has a distinct advantage v. the melee dependant races at a number of jobs. For instance, your higher AGI means you will be slightly more accurate if you chose to go RNG. We also used to have a saying after the NA PC release back in 2003: "An Elvaan DRK can knock down the big numbers on Guillotines, but a Taru DRK can actually hit often enough to do that Guillotine more than once a battle." Knowing how to play your job effectively, and taking gear/subjobs to play to those strengths is often way more important than being Galkan or Elvaan.
The major strength of taru melees is also your major weakness: You don't hit very hard. The idea here is to play on this by maximizing your accuracy, so you hit more often. Since you aren't going to post big numbers like an Elvaan or Galka, you also aren't creating nearly the aggro footprint for Burst damage that these two races have. This means that the mob is less likely to turn towards you in battle and start laying the smack down. Since your tank usually has way better DEF than your average DD job, this is a good thing. It saves the healer's mp since they only have to worry about one person and that person doesn't get hit very hard. Most really bad DDs shoot just for the big damage, trying to end the battle ASAP. It's not a bad strategy, but when hate is bouncing everywhere, healer mp is dropping like a rock, and your efficiency is essentially nil.
Taru tanking is a little weirder. If your a taru NIN, you typically don't worry about too much more than the typical NIN. With the possible exception of large damage single shot moves, like Death Scissors from Scorpions or Screwdriver from Pugils. These can 1 shot you at lower levels, although they can also 1 shot alot of other NINs as well. If you're Taru PLD, however, you need to get comfortable using MP to keep hate. You have a ton of it, and it's better used curing yourself or others to stick hate firmly on yourself. This means you'll be resting more than other races, but you'll also have an easier time later on keeping the mob focussed on you when your DD can whip out a Rampage or Sidewinder on a moment's
notice.

Please please please, stop feeding this to new players.

You do not know what you are talking about. I do not want to come off harsh but the only real distinct disadvantage taru has vs. other races is HP.

Everything else can be taken care of by gear.

When will people come off the whole race thing already. You make it sound that taru melee will hit for 15-30 pts less than a comparable hume or galka. not true whatsoever.

Gear has so much to play in how your character does. that base str of +4 to 8 will not make you magically blow tarus out of the water in terms of dmg.

I play rng and my higher agi doesnt do squat. why? because rng has so much rng acc coming out the ears that it doesnt matter anymore. period. it's all in the gear.

Like others said:

smart gameplay > gear > race.


To the OP: I am a taru, and I do not play any mage jobs. 75nin, 75rng, 61bst, and 44mnk. Especially on mnk, I have outdamaged every other mnk I've pt'd with. Why? my gear and the food I use. I have great gear and I usually pop sole sushi. Every other mnk ive played with are not as well equipped and they drop off in numbers. Ive been pting in crawlers nest lately. My per hand avgs from 35-50 and raging fists range from 200-500 (all depending if berserk and focus are active). I have yet to pt with a equally equipped mnk. So far, their numbers have avg from 15-35 per hand and 150-350 raging fists. Where is the racial advantage now? what does that +4-6 base str do for them now? nothing. It's all about the gear/food. for my mnk, I stack all str and atk. I have no acc pieces. Focus and sushi take care of my acc issues. If I still have trouble, I will replace brown belt with tilt belt and sniper rings for my pussiance rings when building tp. usually the tilt belt does enough for me.

If I would get to pt with a equally equipped mnk, this pretty much puts it best as what would happen:

Elvaan Mnk uses Raging Fists, Randommob takes 251 points of damage.
Tarutaru Mnk uses Raging Fists, Same Randommob takes 242 points of damage.
...Yea, that's about what it amounts to. And you could chalk that down to luck if you wanted.

So what im trying to say is, do not let people discourage you from playing melee. There's many taru here that play melee and we can all tell you that we do just fine. Heck, no one invites you based on race. It's more about what job you are when it comes to invites.

Good luck.

[Bamshu]

Re: Classes - Specific jobs?

Okay. Thanks very much. I'm convinced.

Also, it's good to see an MMOG that involves a lot of skill, rather than just having the best numbers.

Feel free to continue talking on the subject here, it's interesting to read.

[Loial]

Re: Classes - Specific jobs?

The difference in a taru's strength to other races is negligible that race chosen should not be a factor. However, even though people play down the importance of HP, it can come back to haunt you in both exp PT and end-game when some mob lands a critical TP move on you that one-shots you.

[Kitalrez]

Re: Classes - Specific jobs?

Please please please, stop feeding this to new players.
You do not know what you are talking about. I do not want to come off harsh but the only real distinct disadvantage taru has vs. other races is HP.
Everything else can be taken care of by gear.
When will people come off the whole race thing already. You make it sound that taru melee will hit for 15-30 pts less than a comparable hume or galka. not true whatsoever.

Omni, while I like you, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. If you will notice, most of my jobs are in the lower ranges. I've played just about everything to 20. In this low range of the game, we do have an advantage in terms of hate control. No, I am not trying to imply that we're hitting for "15-30 pts less than a comparable hume or galka", the difference is at best right now, 1-3 points of damage less WITH THE SAME EQUIPMENT/FOOD. The point I was making is that the loss of 1-3 damage per hit is actually advantagous in the low end of the game, especially Valkurm Dunes, if everyone in your party is similarly equipped/fed. And that point was for the reasons I gave. No one in Valkurm and Qufim has clue 1 how to actually tank a mob, usually. Any help you give them in this regard improves your party efficiency.

I agree with the point you're making on gear and skill. But you need to consider who's asking the question before you start to respond. The OP is asking whether or not to START a taru melee. Where does race actually matter in the game? The extreme ends of the spectrum, the very beginning, and the very end as Icemage already cited. For the beginning level 1-20 run of the game, people generally don't use food, gear is whatever you pick up cheaply, and you're frantically reading guides on sites like this to figure out what you're doing. Our OP is a rank 1 RDM of indeterminate level, w/o a subjob, and presumably w/o access to more expensive gear. Realisticly, he's not going to have access to the food/gear needed to max himself out. Also realisticly, he's going to hit for slightly less and have less hp. What he needs to realize is that hitting for less damage can actually be an advantage at this stage of the game. I'm not trying to discourage the OP here, I'm trying to convince him that taru melee is actually worthwhile.

From my vast experience in the 1-20 stage of the game, I can tell you that if I didn't work the AH for +1 gear, make use of my 60 cooking skill, or spend time researching how to do my job effectively in a party, I would be hitting for about 1-3 damage less. I can also tell you that this has almost never failed to be advantageous to me in those situations where I didn't have the food/gear to max myself out. Trust me, for the condition of our OP, and the part of the game he's actually experiencing, I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about here.

[Celeal]

Re: Classes - Specific jobs?

Omni, while I like you, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. If you will notice, most of my jobs are in the lower ranges. I've played just about everything to 20. In this low range of the game, we do have an advantage in terms of hate control. No, I am not trying to imply that we're hitting for "15-30 pts less than a comparable hume or galka", the difference is at best right now, 1-3 points of damage less WITH THE SAME EQUIPMENT/FOOD. The point I was making is that the loss of 1-3 damage per hit is actually advantagous in the low end of the game, especially Valkurm Dunes, if everyone in your party is similarly equipped/fed. And that point was for the reasons I gave. No one in Valkurm and Qufim has clue 1 how to actually tank a mob, usually. Any help you give them in this regard improves your party efficiency.

I agree with the point you're making on gear and skill. But you need to consider who's asking the question before you start to respond. The OP is asking whether or not to START a taru melee. Where does race actually matter in the game? The extreme ends of the spectrum, the very beginning, and the very end as Icemage already cited. For the beginning level 1-20 run of the game, people generally don't use food, gear is whatever you pick up cheaply, and you're frantically reading guides on sites like this to figure out what you're doing. Our OP is a rank 1 RDM of indeterminate level, w/o a subjob, and presumably w/o access to more expensive gear. Realisticly, he's not going to have access to the food/gear needed to max himself out. Also realisticly, he's going to hit for slightly less and have less hp. What he needs to realize is that hitting for less damage can actually be an advantage at this stage of the game. I'm not trying to discourage the OP here, I'm trying to convince him that taru melee is actually worthwhile.

From my vast experience in the 1-20 stage of the game, I can tell you that if I didn't work the AH for +1 gear, make use of my 60 cooking skill, or spend time researching how to do my job effectively in a party, I would be hitting for about 1-3 damage less. I can also tell you that this has almost never failed to be advantageous to me in those situations where I didn't have the food/gear to max myself out. Trust me, for the condition of our OP, and the part of the game he's actually experiencing, I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about here.

Skill > Gear > Race