What's the best relic weapon?

[Raydeus]

Re: What's the best relic weapon?

I don't think anyone is saying the other Relic weapons aren't useful, but more that compared to the rest of the weapons Horn and Shield are the ones that give the greatest benefits for the cost.

It's ok if you think another weapon is better, it's a matter of personal choice after all.

[Aeni]

Re: What's the best relic weapon?

This is why I think all these people voting for any other weapon aside from Gjallarhorn have no clue what they're talking about and have never seen any of the completed relics in action first-hand.


Icemage

There are CORs rolls that give similar effect. You can get that pre-75.

What I am getting at are these things:

-You actually have a BRD in that party.
-If you're soloing, is it really worth it?

In essence, you can get faster MP, but if you don't have every other job pulling their share, you're not going to win fights any faster just because you have 2x ballads on steroids.

Also, remember, it only works if the BRD is lumped with other mages. Most of end game, when there's only 1 BRD, they are usually lumped in group with NINs

[Caspian]

Re: What's the best relic weapon?

There are CORs rolls that give similar effect. You can get that pre-75.
What I am getting at are these things:
-You actually have a BRD in that party.
-If you're soloing, is it really worth it?
In essence, you can get faster MP, but if you don't have every other job pulling their share, you're not going to win fights any faster just because you have 2x ballads on steroids.
Also, remember, it only works if the BRD is lumped with other mages. Most of end game, when there's only 1 BRD, they are usually lumped in group with NINs

In Meriting, yes. In the HNM scene, far more often than not, no.

And like any party and any piece of gear (most especially including all relic pieces) in a party: your party still has to do there job. I am not aware of any single piece of gear that allows the entire party to sit on their ass and not do a damn thing.

Noone is saying that you're somehow gimp for not having these items, nor will your party be guaranteed to suck if noone in your party has them, but they sure are incredibly helpful in the hands of a skilled player. Hell, they incredibly helpful in the hands of a mediocre player.

Thats more than double what a BRD can normally give you in mp per tick. Not to mention bonuses to minuets.

[Icemage]

Re: What's the best relic weapon?

Also, remember, it only works if the BRD is lumped with other mages. Most of end game, when there's only 1 BRD, they are usually lumped in group with NINs

Successful HNMLSs, particularly those that have the means to assist someone in completing a relic weapon, invariably have a lot of mages. Who shows up to end-game with no MP-users?

I don't think I've ever used March or Mambo in HNM situations - even with NIN tanks, it's usually more important to make sure any mages in the party with the NIN stay on top of their MP than to give a slight advantage to the NINs in terms of evasion or haste.


Icemage

[Aeni]

Re: What's the best relic weapon?

Successful HNMLSs, particularly those that have the means to assist someone in completing a relic weapon, invariably have a lot of mages. Who shows up to end-game with no MP-users?

I don't think I've ever used March or Mambo in HNM situations - even with NIN tanks, it's usually more important to make sure any mages in the party with the NIN stay on top of their MP than to give a slight advantage to the NINs in terms of evasion or haste.


Icemage

I just gave an example. Also, I'm not sure if you're aware, but Relic can now be gotten through RMT. You do not need a successful HNMLS (Translation: 40+ members fully merited and wearing nothing but abjuration and AFv2) to do anything now, unless it's taking down AV or something.

[Raydeus]

Re: What's the best relic weapon?

I just gave an example. Also, I'm not sure if you're aware, but Relic can now be gotten through RMT. You do not need a successful HNMLS (Translation: 40+ members fully merited and wearing nothing but abjuration and AFv2) to do anything now, unless it's taking down AV or something.

Now that's interesting, exactly how much are gilbuyers willing to pay for one of these weapons? I mean even spending 5 bucks to buy 1 mil gil seems very stupid to me.

So how much would this cost, 10,000 USD? 20,000?

[Icemage]

Re: What's the best relic weapon?

I just gave an example.

Good HNMLS don't generally use non-MP using tank parties with ninjas only. It's "occasionally" useful, but usually not, since there are so few HNMs and other activities where a full evasion/haste build is going to give you a decided edge in a fight. I always sing double ballads even with ninjas in a party - I may occasionally overwrite them on the Ninjas with Etudes or other songs as appropriate, but losing the advantage of Erase and Regen in your tank party is too much to give up to sing anything except Ballad.

Ergo, Ballad is what I end up singing at end-game 95% of the time. For that matter, you would never, EVER stick your Gjallarhorn-wielding Bard in a melee party when there's a mage party or tank party that could benefit oh-so-much-more.

Also, I'm not sure if you're aware, but Relic can now be gotten through RMT. You do not need a successful HNMLS (Translation: 40+ members fully merited and wearing nothing but abjuration and AFv2) to do anything now, unless it's taking down AV or something.

I'd sooner shoot myself in the eye than use RMT for anything, but I'll grant that there are people who can't be bothered. That being said, it would cost an astronomical amount of money and time to do things this way (and if Square-Enix is to be believed, this sort of thing may be severely disrupted in the near future in any case).

Regardless, there are much, much better ways to improve your character's performance with gil than completing most relic weapons. I just don't see the justification for upgrading most of them; they're marginally better than the next best weapons, their special weaponskills are cool but not "that" cool, especially solo, and it takes an inordinate amount of time and resources to complete one.


Icemage

[Drive]

Re: What's the best relic weapon?

RMT got me a minstrel's coat because they were camping the NM....does that make me a bad person now?

Aegis is one of the most beautifully crafted piece of equipment in this game. next to Sha'ir(because bard can't wear Nashira...)

[Lmnop]

Re: What's the best relic weapon?

2 days isn't enough for a thread to be dead, is it?

Additional effects on Relics fire very frequently -- Kirin and JoL will get the Evasion down effect off of Bravura as easily as a Robber Crab. and it's - a lot. -defense on Gungnir should be the same way. The shock spikes effect is going to become pointless in party play -- let's say you get hate from using the WS, well after this last update there's a good chance you're /Sam and you're counterattacking and anticipating. I was hoping the add'l effect for Gungnir was gonna be like.... heal Wyvern of a proportionate amount or Wyvern Regen or... something.

Relics are confusing to keep straight since they have so many attributes. They have
-weapon stats (+acc/attack)
-additional effect (this is something that fires like the elemental damage of light staff, but usually isn't just straight damage)
-hidden effect damage multiplier (varies in proc rate and damage multiplier, but all Relics deal 2-3x damage ~10% of the time)

And then their WSs have
-Damage
-Added Status (this is what's listed in the text, such as Defense down for Bravura or Drain effect of Apocalypse)
-Extra Status (this is always a hidden 'target: Self' buff. Regen from Excalibur, Subtle Blow on katana/HtH, etc).

Many Relic WSs so far are known to only have 1 effect (like Mercy Stroke's increased crit hit rate). This leaves me wondering if these weapons have effects that simply haven't been discovered yet, or if S-E decided they're powerful enough as is.

Doesn't make sense that Bravura has a good chance to lower evasion drastically on EVERY SWING as well as use a WS to greatly lower Defense AND give them some nifty Damage Reduction (I've heard it's pretty potent, but too short of duration, btw). Meanwhile... Gungnir lowers defense on melee swing, but gets.... Spikes from the WS? That's it?

My favorites are Guttler (I'm not a BST but I like the idea of a Bst/nin using Onslaught to give them an attack boost to compensate for the loss of Berserk, In addition to giving the mob acc down so they can keep shadows up better, since you know it'd be hard to have your pet tank full time w/Guttler around). And Apocalypse (Blood Weapon doesn't heal on WS, but this WS will heal you, meaning Souleater Catastrophe will not only deal more damage, you'll cure yourself of more.) as I believe it gives a method to sustain yourself even against smaller HNM. And honestly, if you have Relic Scythe, you better find an HNMLS that'll let you melee all the NMs at least once/fight. Drk/sam homam + Souleater.

P.S. Mjollnir is Additional effect: Recover mp, not :Mp Drain, as Lilith's Rod states. This means that it doesn't take Mp from your opponent, you simply gain Mp out of thin air contingent upon melee swing. So you could theoretically gain Mp off of meleeing a THF in ballista (good luck hitting him, though +20 acc and the Shield Break effect will definately help.) Btw, I think Randgrith actually translates to "Shield Crush" or something very similar.

[Thott]

Re: What's the best relic weapon?

Shield....> GKT.....>Horn
and I want the horn lol

[Raydeus]

Re: What's the best relic weapon?

Horn and Shield are the best imo like I said in another post, but, not a single weapon is worth the time and effort a player has to invest to get them.

Not worth it at all.

[Icemage]

Re: What's the best relic weapon?

Horn and Shield are the best imo like I said in another post, but, not a single weapon is worth the time and effort a player has to invest to get them.
Not worth it at all.

One of my LS mates has Bravura, and while it's NOT in the league of Gjallarhorn or Aegis, it's awfully good against HNMs. Worth it? Dunno. But it definitely does have a definite impact (as noted above, the DEF down effect is pretty noticeable since most HNMs have omgwtf starting defense ratings)


Icemage

[Raydeus]

Re: What's the best relic weapon?

How much time and gil did it take to get a fully upgraded Bravura?

For me any item that takes more than 10 days of play (240 hours) just isn't worth it, and I might be exagerating, I should say 120 hours.

I mean, I understand these kind of items have a good value inside the game, but the cost in time (RL time) is way too much for me, specially considering I play an average of around 20 hours week .

[Icemage]

Re: What's the best relic weapon?

How much time and gil did it take to get a fully upgraded Bravura?

Took him about a year and a half. I don't know how much gil... but it was "a lot". His primary job for a long time was BST, though, so he was able to fund a lot of it from the overflow of Kindred and Beastmen Seals he had (literally always had like 400-600 seals... of both types).

For me any item that takes more than 10 days of play (240 hours) just isn't worth it, and I might be exagerating, I should say 120 hours.

I mean, I understand these kind of items have a good value inside the game, but the cost in time (RL time) is way too much for me, specially considering I play an average of around 20 hours week .

Well, yeah, I think those are largely fair statements. But for the Bravura at least, it isn't quite a worthless toy (unlike some of the other weapons). I'm still of the opinion that it's not really worth the time, but for someone who really wants it, it does give tangible benefits.


Icemage

[Thott]

Re: What's the best relic weapon?

Ok in my ls we got a pimp war Bravura and it is awesome for sc and other things but it sucks on mobs that are not hard, I can do more damage to ep mobs with staff then Med Torment... against HNM mobs it is good but other then that it is crap lol
also they made it look the same as Martial Bhuj....